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Posted (edited)

Guys a very important fact is being overlooked here.  One man (or even 2 or 3) as we know, can't carry a team on his/their own or continue to forever.  Old father time eventually catches up with mother nature at some point.

However, for whatever reason/s, there are still too many in the team that have been either significantly off or way off their 2018 best and/or still haven't strung together a series of what we could describe as "form" worthy matches.  One week ok, the next ordinary, the next up a little or off a little again.  For some they've been a fair way off for most matches.

Ok so it's been a horror start.  Last week the exception against a fairly sluggish Swans outfit and on a ground that favours our 'swarming / bash and crash through' inside biased game style.  A win is a win though and of course it helps with confidence and buying in to the 'team defence' mantra etc.

When more of the players who are well off their best to this point, start to lift their output, then the results of others around them should also start to lift a little (in theory!).  That lift should also assist the likes of the Jones Boy (generally) with his contribution/form.  Winning form will help of course.

But the whole team is off it's 2018 averages (statistically) by about 13%.  In a team (form/output) sense at AFL level that's massive.  And not in a good way obviously.

We have some of last season's best players statistical averages off around the 50% mark vs last season!  Others around the 20% - 30% mark etc.  One of those, ANB (a regular in 2018 playing 22 matches), is already out the door ...for now.  He was off 47% on his own 2018 averages when omitted.  Admittedly we were only 3 rounds in but that's where he was at.

When the team as a whole lifts (hopefully consistently) only then should we be truly judging where some individuals are at if they are way off the measure.  If the team was humming then of course we are able to more clearly see if some aren't performing or carrying their load.  But we need so many to lift at this stage.  Hopefully that upward trajectory commenced last week and those who were a fair way off their 2018 form start to hop on the "Good Form" train.

Remember the old saying..."Many hands make light work"!  Let's hope we can continue our winning form and make light work of the Aints.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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Nate Jones is simply a legend of the MFC.  Is this his final season?  I am so disappointed for him that finals and beyond now look forlorn.  

In a different team he may have made AA and have a flag medallion.  He has stuck fat through the worst period in our history, however the workhorse is banged up and his days look numbered as a player.  That’s just my observation, I hope I am wrong.  This club and current group of players have not done him any favours this year.  

He deserves much better.

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Should think he'll play next season, even if he's not in the side every week. I'll be ropable if we sack him or lean on him to retire, and will likely stop supporting the club. Sacking Junior ripped the heart out of the club, this would be round 2. Would never happen under Jackson, but I don't know about Pert. 

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The situation definitely needs to be managed well.

Our history with captains over the last ten plus years has been abysmal.

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On 4/9/2019 at 12:55 PM, TGR said:

The only place he can hide is half-back like Jordie Lewis over the past 2 years.

 

Footy world (Lloyd on FC) has worked out the bleeding obvious.  MFC get out-run in terms of speed and spread.  Jones can't play wing on big grounds anymore.  Go to half back and stiffen us up, and Jordie retires after the Hawk game.

 

 

Jones is better now than where Lewis was 4 years ago.  Jones isn’t our main problem.

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On 4/16/2019 at 1:49 PM, Wiseblood said:

Did it take you four days to come up with that? I quoted you ages ago and you ignored it why go back to it now? 

Give it a rest...

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59 minutes ago, SPC said:

He, Lewis and Hibberd will be gone at years end. 

Hibberd has 1 year left but should be paid out. Garlett also to go. 

Jones should play the remainder off the season if fit, the other 3 should make way for the kids. 

I don’t subscribe to the rebuild theory, I honestly believe we can be next year where we all thought we would be this season.

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1 hour ago, SPC said:

He, Lewis and Hibberd will be gone at years end. 

two of the three are out of contract; when the end comes, it can come quickly

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1 hour ago, Pirlo said:

Should think he'll play next season, even if he's not in the side every week. I'll be ropable if we sack him or lean on him to retire, and will likely stop supporting the club. Sacking Junior ripped the heart out of the club, this would be round 2. Would never happen under Jackson, but I don't know about Pert. 

The big difference now is that we do have a strong group of middle-aged leaders to replace Jonesy, unlike in Junior's day.

To me, the key is whether Jonesy can show he needs to be kept on and by that it means becoming a best 22 player again. The wing is a graveyard for him because he likes a contest and is too slow to match up on the pacey types, but as we saw against Richmond, there's a spot down back now with Jetta out. I am not sure he did enough on Baker and Rioli to warrant major excitement but hopefully he gets a couple more weeks at it because he is a strong tackler and he can turn out of trouble. 

 

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Zero point trying to 'extend his career' by playing him in the less bash-and-crash roles, if the result is his career dribbles away ignominiously.

Best option I can see is to throw him in the guts so he can do what he has always done, dig on in. We can't rely on always winning clearances and Jones at least has always been able to pile on and limit how often and how cleanly clearances break against us. He is a losing sides favourite onballer, so to speak.

No, he wont do it to the kind of elite standard we like to see from Oliver and Brayshaw or an in-form Viney, but he will work hard at it and I think the simplicity and familiarity of the task will help him. In a way, oddly, it is a bit like giving simple instructions to young nervous players.

In effect, he become the 'Preuss supporting Gawn' act of the inside mids. There to take his share of the hammering, and be competent and a factor the oposition has to plan for, but he is not the weapon. He's part of the armor.

If we want to extend his career, we accept that he'll need to be rested a few times a season. But you've always got to try to put people in the positions they are most effective at, and our young mids are mostly a bit more flexible in their role than Jones.

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Posted (edited)

Should retire at seasons end, but I bet the club will nurse him to 300 games next season.

Hes averaging a paltry 1.8 tackles per game,  the lowest of his career.

Edited by Petraccattack

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Ideally Jones should come to his own conclusion he is cooked and retire immediately.

That's not going to happen.

Play him deep forward pocket. Might be able to muster a goal or two a game. Nearly every time he touched the ball last night it was turned over (I only saw 1st quarter). I would rather he turn the ball over in our forward line rather than across the middle or half back.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Season & MFC in general are fast becoming irrelevant.

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Play him for the rest of the season in the forward pocket.

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5 hours ago, Soidee said:

Nate Jones is simply a legend of the MFC.  Is this his final season?  I am so disappointed for him that finals and beyond now look forlorn.  

In a different team he may have made AA and have a flag medallion.  He has stuck fat through the worst period in our history, however the workhorse is banged up and his days look numbered as a player.  That’s just my observation, I hope I am wrong.  This club and current group of players have not done him any favours this year.  

He deserves much better.

He is from a large group of excellent players who have represented the MFC over the last half century without finals success or even participation. 

Feel very sorrow for Jones who deserves much better. He should have done what the likes of Alves etc have done over the years and left for a side capable of getting them into GF's. At the MFC loyality has seldom been rewarded.

Tough life at the MFC but it is over Nathan I hope they can win a few for you before the year ends, and that will be all she wrote.

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Jones has been a warrior for us through the dark tears. His best football was when we were in our darkest hour, as the old adage states, "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". Unfortunately for Nate, old mother time has caught up to him and he is now unable to do what he was able to.

The season is lost now and we don't have much to gain except maybe restore a little dignity. If he is fit play him for the remainder of the year, he deserves at least that (the Junior McDonald debacle still burns deep within many Dees followers of how not to treat our stalwarts). 

A great servant of our club and whilst not a champion of the AFL, he's very much a champion of the MFC who deserves to go out with dignity.

 

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On 4/16/2019 at 12:38 PM, Fifty-5 said:

People have extremely short memories.  Nathan Jones carried our midfield along with Oliver for the first third of last year while Viney was out injured and before Brayshaw and Harmes emerged.  He's still 5th best starting midfield option and won 4 clearances and 11 contested possessions against the Swans.  One in game injury to any of those first 4 and he's in there full-time.

He's a turn over merchant with one gear. Get ball and kick long to a contest.

The single most overrated player to ever wear a Melbourne guernsey.

And I agree with a lot of what you say mate, but to say he carried our midfield last year at any point in time is laughable.

But any post questioning Nathan's ability is always shut down on here and on any of those ridiculous Facebook groups. A protected species.

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7 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Zero point trying to 'extend his career' by playing him in the less bash-and-crash roles, if the result is his career dribbles away ignominiously.

Best option I can see is to throw him in the guts so he can do what he has always done, dig on in. We can't rely on always winning clearances and Jones at least has always been able to pile on and limit how often and how cleanly clearances break against us. He is a losing sides favourite onballer, so to speak.

No, he wont do it to the kind of elite standard we like to see from Oliver and Brayshaw or an in-form Viney, but he will work hard at it and I think the simplicity and familiarity of the task will help him. In a way, oddly, it is a bit like giving simple instructions to young nervous players.

In effect, he become the 'Preuss supporting Gawn' act of the inside mids. There to take his share of the hammering, and be competent and a factor the oposition has to plan for, but he is not the weapon. He's part of the armor.

If we want to extend his career, we accept that he'll need to be rested a few times a season. But you've always got to try to put people in the positions they are most effective at, and our young mids are mostly a bit more flexible in their role than Jones.

I completely agree with this, because they're not going to drop the captain and Jones has a hardened body, but his form is embarrassing and as I said for most of last year, he shouldn't have gone around again in 2019. But because he has and we're no longer in finals contention, we may as well let him play in the guts. That's his go.

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On 4/9/2019 at 11:09 AM, Wrecker45 said:

Nathan Jones is likely to be in our next team of the century.

He stood by MELBOURNE during the worst years when he could have easily left for more money.

Paul Roos, who is a better judge than I, rated his leadership and rates the winning goal he kicked to seal a final as one of his greatest moments he has seen watching football.

Bernie Vince won our b&f, the following year he was moved to the backline and was never the same.

Benie Vince was more dynamic and had more tricks than Jones. Jones can’t play anywhere to AFL standard other than in the guts much like Dom Tyson.

Oliver is close to the best midfielder in the league but I think he could spend less time in the midfield and more across the ground to provide Jones an opportunity to spend more minutes on the ball.

We need to give him more time in the midfield or send him into retirement.

 

 

Absolute champion of the club, he needs to go back or forward pocket, or back in the middle. He’s no good on the wing, too slow, he cannot be pushed out, he’s a great of our club. 

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Posted (edited)

People feeling "sorry" for Chunk do realise he's made more money than Sam Mitchel, Jordan Lewis and Joel Selwood by playing his footy at Melbourne yeah? We have been terrible, yet had to pay a min cap to someone didn't we . . . His best was b+ footy. Great fella, great Melbourne man whose done very well financially out of the club too.

It's not going to be a fairytale and we need a whole lot more out of a skipper. 

Love the chunk but it's time to move on.

 

 

Edited by ICU2 Jerry Jerry
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Posted (edited)

Hard to see Jones still being around if playing for one of the more successful clubs. Clarkson would have tapped him on the shoulder years ago. He has been the beneficiary of the botched exit of Junior Mac who still was a relavent contributor. He won’t go until he feels like it. It is damning he can’t see his time is up. Last season we could hide him because the side played really well. This season there is no where to hide him anymore. It is cringeworthy watching him plodding along and butchering  the ball on a regular basis. 

Edited by america de cali
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Posted (edited)

Comparing the Junior debacle with Jones is comparing apples and oranges.

Junior had no forewarning.  Entitled to feel let down by and bitter toward the club.  Very, very badly (mis) managed.

With Jones, Goodwin and Mahoney will already be having the 'what does your future look like after football' conversation.  I can't see them shying away from the difficult decisions.

Whatever Jones' chosen field is after football, the club will help him along that path.  We owe him that.  But we don't owe him extra playing time for nostalgic or romantic reasons.  Even if he stays another year what are the chances of a premiership? 

Just like it was sad to see another proud and loyal #2 miss out on the ultimate prize it will be sad for Jones. 

Another year might get him to 300 if he plays every game.  No guarantee he will.  Jones' is struggling.  A few cameos a year isn't enough. The club comes first. 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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