Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[praha 11,236]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Journos have sources especially where the AFLPA is involved. The story would've got out anyway I don't see any issue with being transparent.

true. but I didn't know that at the time. 

it's even more worrying now that we have players running to the union.

Michael Jordan managed to get Steve Kerr, head of the player's union, to do the team thing and go above and beyond. They clashed, punched on (literally). But the two of them sealed a championship (Literally. Google "Steve Kerr finals winner"). 

This is another major concern I have now. You have some players actively undermining the coaching department. This is the first news story ever of players running to the union about training. It's embarrassing. The club can't actively address this. What can it say? outside of what it's already said? 

You can't ignore this. With any work place if the union needs to get involved you've got a problem. What do players who wanted to do the training say? They'r scabs if they say anything. That creates division. This isn't a construction site. It's a football club. Team cohesion is so important. And now the coaching department's efforts to work on this area have been compromised. The reports were that players were struggling...but they pushed each other. They pushed and pushed. Then 8 months later round 23 happens. A few months later we heard that someone or a few are worried they're being trained too hard.

Why does this club always set the worst records, the worst stories, the worst standards?

We are the new Richmond.

 

[jumbo returns 6,740]

We are the new Richmond? 2017 Premiers?

I wish

The Coach and FD have listened to feedback and acted accordingly

Stop the macho - eat - road - kill bs and get on with building strong FOOTBALLERS

Edited December 15, 2017 by jumbo returns

[Lucifers Hero 39,632]

7 hours ago, praha said:

Why does this club always set the worst records, the worst stories, the worst standards?

We are the new Richmond.

I would be very happy if we were:  Finals in 4 years of last 5 with a premiership.  75,000+ members. Sponsors bashing down their door.  A dedicated oval at Punt Road.

No, we are the same old Melbourne.  Languishing in our mediocrity.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Roost It 1,434]

In a sport and culture obsessed with proving your manhood by literally head butting bricks I actually find it refreshing that a group of highly talented young men can stand up and call [censored]. I will however be expecting them to win games next year that they lost this year. Only time will tell

[mo64 5,853]

The issue isn't whether or not you think that Boot Camps are just macho/bravo BS. The big issue is that the Leadershp Players didn't have the balls to sit down with the Football Dept and address their concerns, instead of running to the Players Association. 

I can't think of another instance where a sporting team has basically raised OH&S as a reason for not partaking in a training excercise. It's embarassing for the club, and I really feel for Goodwin. 

[rjay 24,893]

8 minutes ago, mo64 said:

The issue isn't whether or not you think that Boot Camps are just macho/bravo BS. The big issue is that the Leadershp Players didn't have the balls to sit down with the Football Dept and address their concerns, instead of running to the Players Association. 

I can't think of another instance where a sporting team has basically raised OH&S as a reason for not partaking in a training excercise. It's embarassing for the club, and I really feel for Goodwin. 

I don't

It's a problem if the players don't feel like they can talk to Goody...

For all the players man talk about him there is a disconnect and it needs to be repaired

Edited December 15, 2017 by rjay

[Deemania since 56 6,609]

Hey, it's over. Let's see the fellas get down to some continuing, hard-tack footy training and teamwork - they are going to be playing football so they should be honing routines, drills and practices that are closely related to football as we currently know it to be. Let us not start preparing for commando raids on opposition teams this early in the pre=season; let's not consider a 'who dares, wins' psychological and familial profiling - an on-field synchronised drill full of 'eyes right', 'salute the Commander, 2, 3...', fake reality irrelevance - that will interrupt and sabotage what has already been achieved across the past few months. 

[chook fowler 19,447]

Give them a fortnight with Percy Cerutty at Portsea.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

It's that time of year when I'm starting to crave and pine for some footy, but trying to make a saga out of this incident is so borish and desperate it really makes me wonder.  Got virtually inconsequential written all over it.  It's the sort of article the Caroline Willson would write, laced with rumor inuendo over a storm in a tea cup.

[sisso 2,580]

14 hours ago, Big Carl said:

True. A summer of kick to kick and running around witches hats is a great pre season!!!

What does this even mean?

Edited December 15, 2017 by sisso

[sue 9,099]

So some of us are appalled that the players won't run through whichever brick wall the coach erects and some think this particular brick wall is stupid or counter-productive.  But who can defend the players only being told  few days in advance?   (which I assume is true since no one has denied it).  To me that raises more questions about the FD than about the players.

[mo64 5,853]

5 minutes ago, sue said:

So some of us are appalled that the players won't run through whichever brick wall the coach erects and some think this particular brick wall is stupid or counter-productive.  But who can defend the players only being told  few days in advance?   (which I assume is true since no one has denied it).  To me that raises more questions about the FD than about the players.

Why is this an issue for the players? They are professionals, and the club isn't asking them to partake in a training excercise during their scheduled leave break.

 

[buck_nekkid 5,847]

The players had a significant concern about how the camp may affect them.  They raised this concern.  The club is then stuck on the horns of a dilemma - if they went ahead with the camp, and players were unduly injured doing non football tasks, or they reported that their conditioning was negatively impacted, then the club has knowingly put the players (who are contracted to play football, not carry backpacks of bricks) at risk.  This would bring liability issues.

imagine if PwC made all of its accountants do a ‘boot camp’ to improve their accounting performance, or the Daily Planet asked the same of their employees.

in the end, the club had to make the call of what they could reasonably ask the players to do as per their job descriptions.  if they don’t have buy in, then it is worse than useless.  

It would also be interesting to know what specifically the club aimed to achieve with the camp- what characteristics were they going to build or discover in individuals and the group?  Things like this rarely have any more than a short ‘fizz’ of team bonding.  Once they have worked out that they are a group with a combined purpose, and they have sorted out internal competence and control issues, the next step is them developing a deep and open sense of trust in each other.  

I would suggest that the camp may address part 1 and 2 really well.  however, how they have acted, and how the club has responded, may just be a sign that the third stage to group performance has actually happened.  The fact that the group worked together to challenge the authority, and trusted each other enough to do it, suggests the camp would have been useless, and potentially taken them backward, in terms of group development.

This event could be the makings of the team.

 

[Nasher 33,609]

This strikes me as the kind of thing that will have miffed the coach in the short term but will have been long forgotten by the time January rolls around. The part to me that seems non-ideal is that the players were notified so late, so it was left until the last minute to be dealt with, but it's only a small quibble in the scheme of things. There's room for improvement in the communication between the coaching and playing groups.

Panning the players or the club seems unnecessary. Projecting it in to a Neeld like rift between the coaches and players is absurd. 

[sue 9,099]

12 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Why is this an issue for the players? They are professionals, and the club isn't asking them to partake in a training excercise during their scheduled leave break.

 

Uness you think there is some extra benefit to be got from a boot camp by springing it on players as a last minute surprise, (which is a big stretch) it fails staff communications 101 to do so.  A boot camp is not the same as asking professionals to do something during their normal work time (or even look after their bodies at other times), It involves going away for a few days.  That is something any other professional would like to know well in advance, especially at this time of year when people may have other plans outside of normal working hours.  

[Nasher 33,609]

4 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

The players had a significant concern about how the camp may affect them.  They raised this concern.  The club is then stuck on the horns of a dilemma - if they went ahead with the camp, and players were unduly injured doing non football tasks, or they reported that their conditioning was negatively impacted, then the club has knowingly put the players (who are contracted to play football, not carry backpacks of bricks) at risk.  This would bring liability issues.

imagine if PwC made all of its accountants do a ‘boot camp’ to improve their accounting performance, or the Daily Planet asked the same of their employees.

in the end, the club had to make the call of what they could reasonably ask the players to do as per their job descriptions.  if they don’t have buy in, then it is worse than useless.  

It would also be interesting to know what specifically the club aimed to achieve with the camp- what characteristics were they going to build or discover in individuals and the group?  Things like this rarely have any more than a short ‘fizz’ of team bonding.  Once they have worked out that they are a group with a combined purpose, and they have sorted out internal competence and control issues, the next step is them developing a deep and open sense of trust in each other.  

I would suggest that the camp may address part 1 and 2 really well.  however, how they have acted, and how the club has responded, may just be a sign that the third stage to group performance has actually happened.  The fact that the group worked together to challenge the authority, and trusted each other enough to do it, suggests the camp would have been useless, and potentially taken them backward, in terms of group development.

This event could be the makings of the team.

 

Buck, this is just as much an over-analysis of the situation as those who see it delivering fire and brimstone. It's not going to be the making of great things, it's just a group of adult men exercising their right to abstain from something they think is going to be detrimental to their health.

[Guest]

As an aside, I wonder how many of the ‘mentally weak’ crew on here also yell out ‘kick it long’ when we are struggling to get momentum during a match?

[dieter 3,325]

14 hours ago, Doodle Dee said:

You're five foot nine? I didnt know they stacked [censored] that high!

The movie was on last night on SBS 'Full Metal Jacket'.....Kubrick, just about the best anti war film ever made.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dieter

[dieter 3,325]

10 hours ago, praha said:

true. but I didn't know that at the time. 

it's even more worrying now that we have players running to the union.

Michael Jordan managed to get Steve Kerr, head of the player's union, to do the team thing and go above and beyond. They clashed, punched on (literally). But the two of them sealed a championship (Literally. Google "Steve Kerr finals winner"). 

This is another major concern I have now. You have some players actively undermining the coaching department. This is the first news story ever of players running to the union about training. It's embarrassing. The club can't actively address this. What can it say? outside of what it's already said? 

You can't ignore this. With any work place if the union needs to get involved you've got a problem. What do players who wanted to do the training say? They'r scabs if they say anything. That creates division. This isn't a construction site. It's a football club. Team cohesion is so important. And now the coaching department's efforts to work on this area have been compromised. The reports were that players were struggling...but they pushed each other. They pushed and pushed. Then 8 months later round 23 happens. A few months later we heard that someone or a few are worried they're being trained too hard.

Why does this club always set the worst records, the worst stories, the worst standards?

We are the new Richmond.

 

Who else they gonna go to but their union? That's why they have them, to protect workers from lunatic bosses.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

Give them a fortnight with Percy Cerutty at Portsea.

He's dead. What good would that do? Some of them might think they're Johny Weissmuller - like a certain snorkelling PM -  and start swimming to Tasmania and never get seen again. It's happened before...

[Deemania since 56 6,609]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

Give them a fortnight with Percy Cerutty at Portsea.

Chook, Percy was great and perhaps, down at Portsea, it would be a great idea. He worked them hard but he knew their limitations and injury susceptibility. There has never been a better conditioner of the athletic type. Very good for us to remember that icon of Australian sport. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I've read every post, from both sides, in this thread and I still can't see what the fuss is all about.  If this was the third or fourth time this pre-season that we had heard about problems at training, players partying too hard etc. then I would be worried.

But we've been super quiet and the players have been committed to training and looking after themselves.  What more could we want?  The boot camp was a mis-step, but a very minor one.  If that's the only negative we see from our pre-season then, in my book, it's a success.

[rpfc 28,271]

They cancelled it, after the first one went so well?

 

Sounds like the players saving the club from itself. What did we have last time? A head injury and a dislocated knee cap?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,827]

Plenty of players get injured during training sessions as well. Let’s cancel them then. 

[P-man 13,366]

It's obviously less than ideal but it's little more than ammunition for opposition fans and media to peddle the "Melbourne is soft" campaign and older generations to make fun of millennials. It would be a story regardless, but it's a bigger story because it fits a convenient narrative. If the Sydney playing group had done the same thing it would be almost a non-issue.

Like everything else - win games and it is soon forgotten about.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by P-man