Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[Smokey 4,146]

Just now, Petraccattack said:

The guys are also welcome to not play footy at all and to find another job that isnt physically demanding with a huge toll on the body.

Nobody is holding a gun to their head.

 

I think you missed my point completely.

Being judgemental about how a group of athletes go about their preparation is meaningless when it comes from somebody who wouldn't know the first thing about pushing themselves physically, which I believe to be the case for a few on here.

All of these things that people comment on so flippantly are much easier said than done.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

During Christmas and New Year breaks, things become very slow, in terms of sports news.  The likes of "fill-in' breakfast hosts, Maher, Brown and Frawley, will clutch at anything that they can run with, in all their "journalistic" banality and In my view, that is what has happened here.

Subscribe to conspiracy theories all you like, but I'll continue to trust in the guys to get the job done.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by iv'a worn smith

[Fork 'em 6,558]

10 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

How do you know that?

Cause they went over the coaches head to veto a training camp he had scheduled.
Or do ya think Goodwin's really ok with that?

Edited December 18, 2017 by Fork 'em

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Just now, Fork 'em said:

Cause they went over the coaches head to veto a training camp he had scheduled.
Or do ya think Goodwins ok with that?

I don't know the full story.  Neither do you, other than what the media hounds think is a big story and have printed.

 

[faultydet 7,593]

1 hour ago, Smokey said:

I reckon half the blokes here judging our players as soft over this probably couldn't complete 20 good push ups or even finish the time trial run without dying

I trust the players made the right decision here. Don't let a slow news week get the better of you guys.

More than half the people here judging would be closer to retirement age than football playing age.

And it's hard to do 20 good pushup's when you are pickled on cheap goon.

 

But please provide you detailed list of the AFL/VFL players who have ended a boot camp or similar in a wheelchair, as proof that your comments are not more than know-all rhetoric.

Professional coaches decided the camp was beneficial, and also made plans around the concerns from the previous year, while our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches.

Any Melbourne member has an absolute right to be ticked off over this, and the players deserve every ounce of scorn coming their way.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Tail wagging the dog again!

[Satyriconhome 9,993]

8 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Cause they went over the coaches head to veto a training camp he had scheduled.
Or do ya think Goodwin's really ok with that?

They didn't go over his head, they sought advice as how best to resolve the situation without causing 'disruption'

Unfortunately due to headline chasing journos, footy commentators seeking relevance and conspiracy theorists on here that was never going to happen

I have spoken to a couple of players and the coach, being a masdive believer in 'boot camps" I am comfortable with what transpired and it will have no impact going forward

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,503]

25 minutes ago, 64" said:

My issue is how did this get out to the media and did the players approach the coach and staff first.I have real concerns if the players went to the union first and if so who were they?

I don't understand the concern. So what if players spoke to their union about it? Would you feel the same way if they spoke to their managers? Their parents? Their partners? I'm all for people getting the best advice available and making a decision accordingly. If they think going to the PA would give them useful advice, of course they should go there.

And your last three words look like a nasty witch hunt. (Which would be humorously ironic if Salem was one of them.)  

[Smokey 4,146]

1 minute ago, faultydet said:

More than half the people here judging would be closer to retirement age than football playing age.

And it's hard to do 20 good pushup's when you are pickled on cheap goon.

 

But please provide you detailed list of the AFL/VFL players who have ended a boot camp or similar in a wheelchair, as proof that your comments are not more than know-all rhetoric.

Professional coaches decided the camp was beneficial, and also made plans around the concerns from the previous year, while our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches.

Any Melbourne member has an absolute right to be ticked off over this, and the players deserve every ounce of scorn coming their way.

I'd take your comments more seriously if we weren't, as always on here, speculating on trash news articles with little facts to base our opinions on.

Know-all rhetoric? Bloody hell, who took the jam out of your doughnut today Turkish? This comment was (quite obviously) not a matter-of-fact statement. Interestingly enough, you've taken it for that for some reason. For your benefit, I'll make it simpler for you - the players should be entitled to enjoying a Christmas break without being physically broken.

While we are at it - please provide proof of this incredibly tough guy comment:

"our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches."

I will accept verified transcripts of all conversations had between players, coaches and the union only.

[faultydet 7,593]

4 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I'd take your comments more seriously if we weren't, as always on here, speculating on trash news articles with little facts to base our opinions on.

Know-all rhetoric? Bloody hell, who took the jam out of your doughnut today Turkish? This comment was (quite obviously) not a matter-of-fact statement. Interestingly enough, you've taken it for that for some reason. For your benefit, I'll make it simpler for you - the players should be entitled to enjoying a Christmas break without being physically broken.

While we are at it - please provide proof of this incredibly tough guy comment:

"our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches."

I will accept verified transcripts of all conversations had between players, coaches and the union only.

Our club, you know the one that has been a rank embarrassment to the code of AFL for the majority of the past 6 decades, is trying to toughen up the playing list mentally, because we have a long track record of being feeble, and quick to fold once the heat is on. That's why we target "leadership" in trading and recruiting, particularly from outside the club, as our in house variety does not cut the mustard.

The club will put on a show for the media, and many appeasers on here will swallow the line that the players were merely seeking "advice" from the AFLPA on how to best seek an end to the camp. They involved the union, to get things their way.

Once again, the soft mental underbelly of the Melbourne list reared its head, and once again we have chosen the soft path. It is undeniable, and does not take an ex grunt to be qualified to offer an opinion. A plumber with a beer gut can offer the same value as a soldier, regardless of the number of daily pushups they can do. (For fun, give us a satisfactory number of pushups required to form a valid opinion on this matter, and do women only need to do girly pushups to have a say?)

[daisycutter 28,641]

12 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I'd take your comments more seriously if we weren't, as always on here, speculating on trash news articles with little facts to base our opinions on.

Know-all rhetoric? Bloody hell, who took the jam out of your doughnut today Turkish? This comment was (quite obviously) not a matter-of-fact statement. Interestingly enough, you've taken it for that for some reason. For your benefit, I'll make it simpler for you - the players should be entitled to enjoying a Christmas break without being physically broken.

While we are at it - please provide proof of this incredibly tough guy comment:

"our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches."

I will accept verified transcripts of all conversations had between players, coaches and the union only.

you seriously think a 2 night/3 day (non) boot camp was going to leave the players "being physically broken"?

a camp you know nothing of the specifics. a camp that goody assured them had extra safeguards from last year'camp

storm nrl are now on their third real bootcamp in a row. they must have a callous disregard for the h&s of their players 

[Smokey 4,146]

Just now, daisycutter said:

you seriously think a 2 night/3 day (non) boot camp was going to leave the players "being physically broken"?

a camp you know nothing of the specifics. a camp that goody assured them had extra safeguards from last year'camp

storm nrl are now on their third real bootcamp in a row. they must have a callous disregard for the h&s of their players 

Feel free to read my previous comments - I already identified the fact I didn't know what the training schedule was. I only offered my opinion from somebody who has done plenty of this style of training myself.

And 20 minutes of this style of training can be enough to break you. Trust me. I have the MRI's to prove it.

 

[Smokey 4,146]

6 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Our club, you know the one that has been a rank embarrassment to the code of AFL for the majority of the past 6 decades, is trying to toughen up the playing list mentally, because we have a long track record of being feeble, and quick to fold once the heat is on. That's why we target "leadership" in trading and recruiting, particularly from outside the club, as our in house variety does not cut the mustard.

The club will put on a show for the media, and many appeasers on here will swallow the line that the players were merely seeking "advice" from the AFLPA on how to best seek an end to the camp. They involved the union, to get things their way.

Once again, the soft mental underbelly of the Melbourne list reared its head, and once again we have chosen the soft path. It is undeniable, and does not take an ex grunt to be qualified to offer an opinion. A plumber with a beer gut can offer the same value as a soldier, regardless of the number of daily pushups they can do. (For fun, give us a satisfactory number of pushups required to form a valid opinion on this matter, and do women only need to do girly pushups to have a say?)

You do realise that your ridiculously long winded comments don't actually hide the fact you never seem to address the questions people ask you, right?

Show me proof of what your saying - or dare I say it, is this just more know-all rhetoric?

[Sir Why You Little 34,711]

8 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

 

storm nrl are now on their third real bootcamp in a row. they must have a callous disregard for the h&s of their players 

It is amazingly ironic that the MFC share the same training facilities as the Storm. 

One club is bulletproof...

[faultydet 7,593]

Just now, Smokey said:

You do realise that your ridiculously long winded comments don't actually hide the fact you never seem to address the questions people ask you, right?

Show me proof of what your saying - or dare I say it, is this just more know-all rhetoric?

The story itself quotes as fact that the club had told the players that extra safeguards had been put in place, to address their safety concerns from the previous camp

It also reported that the players approached the AFLPA

It also reported that following the approach to the AFLPA, the club quashed the camp.

An insider who posts of here, and has his brother on the playing list, stated that he believed Goody was more piszed off than he admitted publicly.

 

You state that you have done many of these camps yourself, and use that as a basis for agreeing with the players actions, but you have zero idea yourself of what was actually planned for the group. That's the coaches call, not the players.

IMO

[Deemania since 56 6,206]

Let's move on, folks. A chink has erupted between ourselves - I bet that the Club is over it, already. I am sure that the Club reflecting on the decision does not regard it as a chink - and never did. There is no point discussing this issue further. 

[Smokey 4,146]

1 minute ago, faultydet said:

The story itself quotes as fact that the club had told the players that extra safeguards had been put in place, to address their safety concerns from the previous camp

It also reported that the players approached the AFLPA

It also reported that following the approach to the AFLPA, the club quashed the camp.

An insider who posts of here, and has his brother on the playing list, stated that he believed Goody was more piszed off than he admitted publicly.

 

You state that you have done many of these camps yourself, and use that as a basis for agreeing with the players actions, but you have zero idea yourself of what was actually planned for the group. That's the coaches call, not the players.

IMO

I didn't do "camps", training like this was done most days before work. I don't use that as a basis for necessarily agreeing with what they did - more so giving them the benefit of the doubt that they took a certain course of action for a legitimate reason. I can see the work the boys have put into their bodies before the pre-season - and that's all I need to have faith at this stage.

I'm a glass half full guy. Each to their own.

[Sir Why You Little 34,711]

6 years ago......

 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/hours-inside-the-melbourne-demons-den/news-story/cb62f5b88b181c76a3f1eacd910eaa5a?sv=b89661d5cf18b330dd0d180a0ce862be

Edited December 18, 2017 by Sir Why You Little

[faultydet 7,593]

8 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I didn't do "camps", training like this was done most days before work. I don't use that as a basis for necessarily agreeing with what they did - more so giving them the benefit of the doubt that they took a certain course of action for a legitimate reason. I can see the work the boys have put into their bodies before the pre-season - and that's all I need to have faith at this stage.

I'm a glass half full guy. Each to their own.

yeah, fair enough. Respect for that.

I still strongly disagree with the players for my reasons stated. I'm one of those long term sufferers who see this as a continuation of our limp wristed attitude. Will all be forgotten, and apologies owed if we make it deep into September, but it certainly has me losing faith again. Evidence based.

As you say, each to their own.

[binman 38,863]

39 minutes ago, Smokey said:

..... if we weren't, as always on here, speculating on trash news articles with little facts to base our opinions on.

 

This is a good point. I don't have anywhere near enough information to form a reasoned opinion on this issue. I have some thoughts and queries but certainly no definitive view. These thoughts and queries include:

• good on the players for taking responsibility and saying they didn't think the camp is valuable - we would mature adults not sheep in 2017
• agree they every right to consult with the AFLPA, not least to understand their rights eg what do standard player contracts say about their right to not participate in an over night camp. I have no sense though of how, when or ho consulted the AFLPA or how appropriate the AFLPA response was
• what does the fact that the player's decision came so late in the piece say? ie is it evidence of poor communication from the club, did the club not properly evaluate last years camp, did the club not consult with the players or perhaps they did and the players buried their head in the sand and were they the ones guilty of leaving it to the last moment?
• the players apparently love goody, will this impact on that?
• who gives a rats arse what a bloke who has the nickname Spud thinks?

[Smokey 4,146]

9 minutes ago, faultydet said:

yeah, fair enough. Respect for that.

I still strongly disagree with the players for my reasons stated. I'm one of those long term sufferers who see this as a continuation of our limp wristed attitude. Will all be forgotten, and apologies owed if we make it deep into September, but it certainly has me losing faith again. Evidence based.

As you say, each to their own.

I'd be lying if I said your sentiments hadn't crossed my mind, because they indeed have. And me 2+ years ago would've thrown my arms in the air and cursed them in a similar vein. But I honestly believe we are past our bruise free footy days.

I hope for all of our sakes I'm right, eh? I'd hate to be proven wrong on this (but am, as always, prepared to be).

Edited December 18, 2017 by Smokey

[daisycutter 28,641]

19 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I didn't do "camps", training like this was done most days before work. I don't use that as a basis for necessarily agreeing with what they did - more so giving them the benefit of the doubt that they took a certain course of action for a legitimate reason. I can see the work the boys have put into their bodies before the pre-season - and that's all I need to have faith at this stage.

I'm a glass half full guy. Each to their own.

as far as the camp goes you come across as glass half empty guy 

i personally don't know if the camp would have been good or bad, but i guess that is why we go to a lot of trouble to hire a professional coach to make those decisions

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,928]

I reckon this camp last year contributed to our injury toll big time. You can not compare an NRL player to an AFL player they are a completely different beast.

[Smokey 4,146]

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

as far as the camp goes you come across as glass half empty guy 

i personally don't know if the camp would have been good or bad, but i guess that is why we go to a lot of trouble to hire a professional coach to make those decisions

 

Haha yeah I guess so

@Win4theAges's comment resonates with me quite a lot - we had a serious year for injuries last year. Perhaps the players identified the pre-season camp had something to do with that?

You can hire all the coaches and sports scientists in the world - they will never understand the player's bodies quite as well as the players themselves.

[Fork 'em 6,558]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

They didn't go over his head, they sought advice as how best to resolve the situation without causing 'disruption'

Unfortunately due to headline chasing journos, footy commentators seeking relevance and conspiracy theorists on here that was never going to happen

I have spoken to a couple of players and the coach, being a masdive believer in 'boot camps" I am comfortable with what transpired and it will have no impact going forward

 

 

IT"S NOT A TUMOR ! .......