Mahoney, get away

[Guest]

I'd like someone to give me a Ferrari. 

That would be great value 

[hemingway 7,627]

Its a point of view. That is what this website is worth reading. 

Unless we are on the inside it is difficult to pass judgment on Mahoney. Even those on the inside can make wrong judgments about executives/employees. 

However, I don't think Peter Jackson is going to put up with under performers. So I would trust Jackson's judgement on performance management and measurement in the Club.  

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

Bernie - did exactly what he was brought in to do and even added a Bluey to that

Melksham - very consistent 2nd half of the year with some very important goals looks good at this stage

Hibberd - absolute win

Oliver - traded up to beat the Bombers to him - win win and win

Lever - see my post in the Lever thread as to the benefits of this trade to our team

[Deefiant 441]

Melksham trade ended up being pick 30 in that draft who Essendon picked up Mason Redman with. But you're right! Look who was picked 3 picks later, M. Hibberd! Could've had Hibberd a year earlier in the draft!!!!!!

[rufus 1,162]

Today's deal shows how badly we needed to fix our tall defensive unit...it was an out and out calamity this year and it is now a hell of a lot better. I guess the FD couldn't risk missing this opportunity. 

[P-man 13,366]

DS you're one of my favourite posters. But mate. Vince was overs?  Put the crack pipe down.

[DeeMfc 621]

We leaked consecutive goals in a short space of time on a few occasions this year. Levers acquisition will go a looooong way to alleviating that in future years.

That is something you cannot put a price on.

[demonzz 116]

39 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Mahoney, get away
Get a good player on less pay and you're okay
Mahoney, you're flash
Grab those picks with both hands and make a stash
New star, on radar, big star daydream
Think you'll buy me a football team

Mahoney, get back
He's all right, Jack, kindly keep off his back
Mahoney, you're a hit
Try to get that Watts boy to commit
I'm in the high-anxiety hand wringing demon set
All I want from the draft is a jet

I like it.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

And if you are going to question the Vince trade, surely you're going to make mention of Matt Crouch.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Isn't the trend now for players to move to strong clubs via Free Agency?

Paying overs for a good player doesn't worry me. Being a stromg club does.

It's becoming a trend for players to leave clubs after 2 or 3 years now to chase success etc.

Deaft picks are not as valuable anymore if you're good enough to supplement your list.

Massive over reaction from a surprising source 

[DemonTux 97]

Why not have the club admin while your at it or are you saying it wasn't a team effort?

[ignition. 1,466]

I agree with the overall point you are trying to make.

While the club has been doing a pretty good job at attracting players, as well as drafting them, at times they are paying far too much.

I don't agree with all the deals you've highlighted, but I do think our dealings need to be tightened up.

For example, I rated Howe (along with many others here) far higher than the club at the time of his departure. Collingwood won that.

The same may be said for Watts if we get a pick in the late 20's. 

The Melksham deal was also foolish. At that point in time, he was worth a third-round pick.

Today the club paid overs for Lever. Yes, he's a gun and his acquisition is brilliant, but the trade feels slightly tainted by the currency exchanged. I'm sure other list managers could have struck a better deal.

In line with this, let's look at the Devon Smith deal also completed today. As much as I hate Dodoro and Essendon, my hat goes off to them. They acquired Devon Smith (a gun small forward) and two second-round picks for their "prized pick 11". It's safe to say Essendon pants GWS.

Now let's talk about "currency". YES, the draft and actual picks can be over-rated. Many consider the draft a lottery. I think that is partially correct. The draft is a lottery with a descending probability of selecting a star (or subsequently a top 10 player). However, draft picks alone during trade-week are gold. They along with players are our only currency (exc. salary cap). By losing next years first round pick, it will be harder to trade in new stars (for example. Ollie Wines or JackMaCrae, or another out of contract player).

I don't think Mahoney needs to go, he seems to do quite a good job otherwise, but the club needs to look at hiring someone who can deal better and extract more out of its competitors during trade week.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,820]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

1. Picks 2 and 20 for Tyson and 9 (Salem)
Values Tyson at approximately pick 5. He'd barely played, had knee problems and the Giants didn't want him. Yes we got Hunt late but we would've got him anyway, no impact on the deal. Did we need a ready to play midfielder, sure? But why pay so much?
Verdict: Clear OVERS

This trade would've looked a lot better had Salem actually played anything remotely like a first round draft pick and not been a compete marshmellow in one-on-one contests.

The Vince trade was spot on. Forgotten those 35 possession 3 goal games he was producing in 2014-2015?

And the Hibberd trade we payed unders. Not many clubs would've parted with pick 28 and expecting an All Australian in return. Hopefully his form continues over the next 3 years.

I do concede that the club dropped the ball with the Howe departure. Should've done way more to convince him to stay.

Mahoney's (and his department) made a few trade blues over the years but what footy manager hasn't? He's done enough to keep his job.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

31 minutes ago, rufus said:

Today's deal shows how badly we needed to fix our tall defensive unit...it was an out and out calamity this year and it is now a hell of a lot better. I guess the FD couldn't risk missing this opportunity. 

Rubbish, who do you think he will be playing alongside, Omac and Frost were re signed, they will take any key fwd allowing Lever to play the same role he did at Adelaide

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,504]

I think you might be confusing Mahoney's role as the spokesperson, for someone who makes all the trade and list decisions in isolation.

Traded with Gold Cost for pick 3 - Oliver

Traded 2016 pick 9 for 2015 pick 8

Traded with GWS for mini draft pick 2 - Hogan

Hibberd for 2nd round - win

Melksham for second round - win

Colin Sylvia for Vince - win

The haemorrhaging of senior players has stopped.

Key young players have all signed on.

Our playing list is no longer referred to as one of the worst in the history of the competition.

 

Pick 2 and 20 for Tyson, Salem and Hunt was absolutely essential at the time - we needed quantity.  It's also not Mahoney that selects the players with those picks.  Hunt is a great pick up, Salem and Tyson are serviceable at worst.  If we'd gone for Cripps, it would be a clear win.

 

[DaveyDee 421]

14 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Isn't the trend now for players to move to strong clubs via Free Agency?

Paying overs for a good player doesn't worry me. Being a stromg club does.

It's becoming a trend for players to leave clubs after 2 or 3 years now to chase success etc.

Draft picks are not as valuable anymore if you're good enough to supplement your list.

You have nailed it - finally, some are starting to get it. There are three things that will win you a premiership - trades, trades and trades. , 

[hemingway 7,627]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

Selective posting   interesting that Roos, Goodwin, Viney, Taylor input into these deals is not mentioned 

Fair comment. However, the nature of social media means that most posting is selective. That's the way it is. Just don't like the personal attacks and criticism when folks don't like what they read. The one hand clapping syndrome. 

[—coach— 3,496]

No mentioning the OP that not one player recently has decided to leave us. Only players that have left are because we have moved them on.

Howe decided to go because we wouldn’t play him where he wanted to play

Edited October 12, 2017 by --coach--

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Josh Mahoney, the last of the Cam Schwab hires, the journeyman player and failed Neeld assistant coach who did a short course at Harvard. It's time to go. 

What you've failed to acknowledge is that with the first two deals, they were deals more out of necessity than trying to get a good deal.  When Roos began we needed to add some class, and experience to our side as quickly as possible - the first two deals allowed us to get Vince, who was brilliant, add a guy like Tyson to the list who was already in the system and then add a young player who we could develop.  

Roos didn't want to keep many of those picks as the club didn't have the time to develop them all.  We needed some bigger bodies who were ready to go from day one.  Both Vince and Tyson gave us that.

The Melksham deal is a break even for me, while it's way too early to call anything on the Lever deal.

And this also ignored the Hibberd deal, which we won, and the deal that allowed us to land our reigning best and fairest winner.

All in all, I think you're talking out of your back pocket on this one, mate.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

16 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

This trade would've looked a lot better had Salem actually played anything remotely like a first round draft pick and not been a compete marshmellow in one-on-one contests.

I must be watching a different player, but I wouldn't classify Salem as a 'marshmellow in one on one contests'.  He's anything but.

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

10 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

You have nailed it - finally, some are starting to get it. There are three things that will win you a premiership - trades, trades and trades. , 

They are part of the picture, not the be all and end all Judd didn't bring the success for Carlton and Dangerfield for Geelong coz you need 21 others

 But let me ask you this,  would you have liked us to trade in Grigg and Houli when the were available?

[rufus 1,162]

14 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Rubbish, who do you think he will be playing alongside, Omac and Frost were re signed, they will take any key fwd allowing Lever to play the same role he did at Adelaide

Yes but now they have a competent teammate who can peel off to help cover for the fact that neither are good one on one defenders. Like it or not they were both badly exposed in one on one contests this year.

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

4 minutes ago, rufus said:

Yes but now they have a competent teammate who can peel off to help cover for the fact that neither are good one on one defenders. Like it or not they were both badly exposed in one on one contests this year.

How dare they be not as good one on one as Rance or Grundy or Talia   and less than 50 games between them, grow up, Omac got better as the year wore on

Edited October 12, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[The Stigga 1,094]

20 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Rubbish, who do you think he will be playing alongside, Omac and Frost were re signed, they will take any key fwd allowing Lever to play the same role he did at Adelaide

I think the best thing about the Lever trade is that it gives us enormous flexibility with using TMac, be it up forward or in the ruck.

[The Stigga 1,094]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

How dare they be not as good one on one as Rance or Grundy or Talia   and less than 50 games between them, grow up, Omac got better as the year wore on

Lever will take the heat off a bit while they develop.

Hopefully they do become as effective as those three individuals.