Farewell Jack Watts

[Dr. Gonzo 23,698]

1 hour ago, A F said:

I don't want many old Demons near that fish head. None of them had success...

Should we get Garry Lyon and Chris Connolly back? They love the club, bleed red and blue. 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

13 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I can see the complexities clearly but have a different point of view - one that you seem to be unable to comprehend.

 

 

I was responding to his comment of yours

" More telling was the chorus of supporters cheers for Jack. Blinded by his 'great guy' status over his years of mediocrity."

I was suggesting that rather than the supporters being blinded by his "great guy" status they were recognizing other areas of contribution which I've detailed.  I'm not debating Watt's trade situation but on your inability to see why supporters might have reacted the way they did and how little insight to that you've got and how inappropriate your criticism of them is.

[old dee 23,486]

Just now, beelzebub said:

suspect he'll be setting up shop  on the Bellarine OD.....just my gut feeling

But they are trying to do a deal for Ablett, that wont leave much  to pay him or draft spots to offer.

Yes I know they have retired three veterans who would have been on good money.

[jackaub 1,402]

He has been completely devalued by the club

If i was  the other club i would offer the absolute minimum

 

[nutbean 8,838]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But but but not everyone has to be a hard trainer like Viney or Oliver. A club has to be made up of different types and different personalities. Kids and sponsors love Jack. Maybe what we see is what we get with Watts and it's just OUR expectations that are out of whack. It's our fault because we're expecting the Messiah and taking it out on him cause he didn't live up to the hype. Watts is already as good as he'll ever be it's just cause Goodwin hates him for some unknown reason that he's willing to get rid of a matchwinner and all round good guy in some bizarre attempt to cut of his nose to spite his face. I'm not renewing my membership.

Or something.

I would hope your reasoning is not the case.

I don't expect a player to be the best at the club, the hardest trainer at the club,  What I do expect is a player to endeavour to be the best he can be and train as hard as he can. Have the best attitude he can have. There will obviously be different levels for different players and they should not be compared. My love for Nathan Jones is not because he is the best player. People call Jones elite but I don't believe he is. What I do see with Jones is we pretty much get the same from him week in and week out. The difference between his best and his worst in both effort and output is very consistent and I believe he is always playing close to the best of his ability . I don't think Jones whole career will be within cooee of say Oliver but that's not the point. Jones gets the most out of himself - Jetta to me is the same.  I cannot say the same for Watts. 

[hemingway 7,615]

10 minutes ago, old dee said:

I have a gut feeling he will be at the MFC in 2018.

Rumour says he does not want to move interstate that reduces the options.

Not sure the available clubs will pay what the MFC want.

If he leaves I think it will be a late deal.

Could be "who blinks first"

 

The relationship between club and player is completely fractured and despite the public posturing by Mahoney, the relationship is beyond repair. I'm sure both sides have this view. Its just a matter of the process and the name of the recipient club.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,698]

10 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I would hope your reasoning is not the case.

I don't expect a player to be the best at the club, the hardest trainer at the club,  What I do expect is a player to endeavour to be the best he can be and train as hard as he can. Have the best attitude he can have. There will obviously be different levels for different players and they should not be compared. My love for Nathan Jones is not because he is the best player. People call Jones elite but I don't believe he is. What I do see with Jones is we pretty much get the same from him week in and week out. The difference between his best and his worst in both effort and output is very consistent and I believe he is always playing close to the best of his ability . I don't think Jones whole career will be within cooee of say Oliver but that's not the point. Jones gets the most out of himself - Jetta to me is the same.  I cannot say the same for Watts. 

45 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But but but not everyone has to be a hard trainer like Viney or Oliver. A club has to be made up of different types and different personalities. Kids and sponsors love Jack. Maybe what we see is what we get with Watts and it's just OUR expectations that are out of whack. It's our fault because we're expecting the Messiah and taking it out on him cause he didn't live up to the hype. Watts is already as good as he'll ever be it's just cause Goodwin hates him for some unknown reason that he's willing to get rid of a matchwinner and all round good guy in some bizarre attempt to cut of his nose to spite his face. I'm not renewing my membership.

Or something.

 

/sarcasm

I've amended the post, I hope this makes the context clearer.

 

[thailand-demon 26]

Don't post much, and obviously not reading the whole thread to see if this has been discussed; 

I like Jack, like most Dee's supporters and would like to see him stay but totally understand reasons for letting him go. But what I can't understand is why we would give him up for a second round pick, to either Port, Cats or Sydney, these are clubs we will be directly competing against for a top 8 spot next year. Send him to Freo or Qld or the Blues. But giving teams a leg up who made the finals this year doesn't make sense. 

Saying that we won't get a first round pick for him so maybe we have to keep him. If the club trade him for a second round pick to a top 8 team then use that for Harley Balic, effectively a Watts for Balic swap I'll be [censored]. 

[old dee 23,486]

2 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The relationship between club and player is completely fractured and despite the public posturing by Mahoney, the relationship is beyond repair. I'm sure both sides have this view. Its just a matter of the process and the name of the recipient club.

Probably correct Ernest and that is why I think this will go down to the wire.

Recipient clubs know it is unlikely he would be at the MFC in 2018 so they will not offer much.

I guess right now clubs are thinking a third round pick which is not much.

As I said who blinks first?

[Deestar9 1,548]

5 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The relationship between club and player is completely fractured and despite the public posturing by Mahoney, the relationship is beyond repair. I'm sure both sides have this view. Its just a matter of the process and the name of the recipient club.

 Totally disagree with this....like it or not ..footy is a business...if a deal is not to the club or to  Jacks liking ...he will stay (hope he does) not for one minute is there hatred for him by the coach...Goodwin wants a certain type of player & at this stage ...Jack hasn’t  delivered...still a lot to play out !

 

[Dr. Gonzo 23,698]

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

Probably correct Ernest and that is why I think this will go down to the wire.

Recipient clubs know it is unlikely he would be at the MFC in 2018 so they will not offer much.

I guess right now clubs are thinking a third round pick which is not much.

As I said who blinks first?

Honestly, I think it will come down more to who pays his salary than squabbling over pick 25 vs pick 40.

[old dee 23,486]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Honestly, I think it will come down more to who pays his salary than squabbling over pick 25 vs pick 40.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[bandicoot 1,395]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Honestly, I think it will come down more to who pays his salary than squabbling over pick 25 vs pick 40.

If we have salary cap issues now then we are %^*# when our young crop matures. Trac, Oliver, viney, brayshaw, weid and even hogan are all under where they will be in a few years. 

 

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Too true.

Black and white makes arguments easier.

But I love the beauty of grey.

The truth is in there.

 

PS. Can we stop being complete d!cks to each other over this? We would all lament his lack of commitment and marvel at his skills.

We all want what is best for club - deal with it.

It's hard R, as everyone wants to be able to say "told you so", whatever happens to Wattsy in the future.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

15 minutes ago, thailand-demon said:

Don't post much, and obviously not reading the whole thread to see if this has been discussed; 

I like Jack, like most Dee's supporters and would like to see him stay but totally understand reasons for letting him go. But what I can't understand is why we would give him up for a second round pick, to either Port, Cats or Sydney, these are clubs we will be directly competing against for a top 8 spot next year. Send him to Freo or Qld or the Blues. But giving teams a leg up who made the finals this year doesn't make sense. 

Saying that we won't get a first round pick for him so maybe we have to keep him. If the club trade him for a second round pick to a top 8 team then use that for Harley Balic, effectively a Watts for Balic swap I'll be [censored]. 

Jack has to agree to any trade.

The MFC aren't allowed to ship him off to any buyer. All the power is with the players in that regard.

But your point about trading him to cats and power are very valid. Its still early in the saga. JW still needs to nominate a club of choice and a deal needs to be reached.

It could happen thst jw chooses a club, no deal is done and he stays. 

[Bobby McKenzie 2,321]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Doubt it. I think their mind is made up regardless of what we get for him. 

Wouldn't that be dumb? Just plain DUMB!

[Bobby McKenzie 2,321]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Could we try Watts plus a 2nd rounder for Z Jones? Jones has pace and mongrel and would fit in perfectly with our young list IMO

Hardly a tall forward though.

[Engorged Onion 10,120]

I guess there is a combination of the club/development system/coaches (past and current) who maybe have not helped Jack reach his potential, as well as Jack prioritising other things to not eek the best out of his perceived potential (mind you,maybe what we see, IS his limit).

Its it helpful to lay blame, probably not...it's okay to have a little from column a, and a little from column b - his story is no different from others, who wanted to stay at their clubs and perhaps haven't delivered (I'm looking at you Adam Hueskes ;P )

Edited October 10, 2017 by Danelska

[Gator 17,224]

I keep seeing the "Messiah" line being trotted out and there's no doubt that were very high expectations of a no. 1 pick (why wouldn't there be ?), but can anyone tell me the last year anyone still held those expectations ?

They're so long ago those early expectations are irrelevant. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by ProDee

[hemingway 7,615]

15 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I was responding to his comment of yours

" More telling was the chorus of supporters cheers for Jack. Blinded by his 'great guy' status over his years of mediocrity."

I was suggesting that rather than the supporters being blinded by his "great guy" status they were recognizing other areas of contribution which I've detailed.  I'm not debating Watt's trade situation but on your inability to see why supporters might have reacted the way they did and how little insight to that you've got and how inappropriate your criticism of them is.

Just don't know why folk can't accept there are a range of different views on an emotional and rational level. 

Why is it that some of us simply cant accept these differences? We should be able to treat one another respectfully without the dismissive comments?  What we view as right and wrong is influenced by one's own personal perspective. 

Most of the reasons on"keep versus trade"' Watts are equally valid. What weight you give to those reasons may bring us to different conclusions but most of the reasons expressed on this thread are accurate and fair.. 

Personally I would keep Watts on the basis of his 2017 season and because of his skills and what those skills bring to the team. I also think there are other players that I would trade before Watts. However, I also recognize that his lack of intensity and failure to chase is infuriating and at times, soft. I am as critical as anyone on this aspect of his game. His lack of defensive pressure does impact the team.

We all have our differences but no one on this site is smarter or better than anyone else.  

[Dr. Gonzo 23,698]

29 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

If we have salary cap issues now then we are %^*# when our young crop matures. Trac, Oliver, viney, brayshaw, weid and even hogan are all under where they will be in a few years. 

 

Do we have cap issues? Watts is contracted for 2 more years, so if we have to wear a couple of hundred K per year for the next 2 years should be irrelevant to the young guys coming out of contract in 2019 and beyond.

[Demon Dynasty 17,091]

21 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Ahh , someone who sees. This is exactly it for mine RN. Some have taken every opportunity to snidely throw another dagger in. Quite frankly it's poor form.  He seems like a messenger boy. 

Message to Nate..Jack started playing 30 mins before yo did rnd 23 ( and thats just one game  )

Jones might have  something worthy in that barrow he pushes but it smells to tell the truth.

As you suggest Rusty I think it's been all over red rover for some whiles even if it took some getting used to for Watts and co. A lot of 'nicey nicey' verbage  has been thrown up to sweeten the cesspool but a cesspool it is none the less.

All in all i  just cant see the ledger coming out in the black on this whole debacle

and yet 2018 will come and we'll all move on.

Better get this right MFC or they'll speak of the Watt's curse in tandem with Norm's !!

I don't think he rates as importantly BZ but i certainly agree with you on that final point.  Goody & the FD are going to look quite the ass if we don't perform and make finals next year without Watts in the make up.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,698]

4 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I keep seeing the "Messiah" line being trotted out and there's no doubt that were very high expectations of a no. 1 pick (why wouldn't there be ?), but can anyone tell me the last year anyone still held those expectations ?

They're so long ago those initial early expectations are irrelevant. 

I thought by 2011 people would've figured out what kind of player he was. He was never gonna be the spearhead he was touted as.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

He'll go for #98......

[Dr. Gonzo 23,698]

3 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Just don't know why folk can't accept there are a range of different views on an emotional and rational level. 

Why is it that some of us simply cant accept these differences? We should be able to treat one another respectfully without the dismissive comments?  What we view as right and wrong is influenced by one's own personal perspective. 

Most of the reasons on"keep versus trade"' Watts are equally valid. What weight you give to those reasons may bring us to different conclusions but most of the reasons expressed on this thread are accurate and fair.. 

Personally I would keep Watts on the basis of his 2017 season and because of his skills and what those skills bring to the team. I also think there are other players that I would trade before Watts. However, I also recognize that his lack of intensity and failure to chase is infuriating and at times, soft. I am as critical as anyone on this aspect of his game. His lack of defensive pressure does impact the team.

We all have our differences but no one on this site is smarter or better than anyone else.  

Ernie, there's the "unknown" element as well - what he does when he's not on the field. The coaches and Leadership Group know this us supporters don't other than the snippets we hear here and there.