Farewell Jack Watts

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

will we make the ton before the sun sets today?

Time for a powerplay?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

52 minutes ago, worldwideweb_demon said:

I remember listening to the OX on the radio and he mentioned that during his time, certain players' skinfolds were not published (probably cause it exceeded the required standard). Even this year, Daniel Wells came back unfit.

From my personal experience, talented guys in any field of life often tend to be the laziest. They never had to work hard to achieve a certain level of success. MFC have had our fair share with guys like Jakovic and Sylvia. If they worked their butts off, they would have been superstars of the competition. 

How many flags did Schwarz, Wells, Jakovich & Sylvia win during their careers?

[What 18,810]

30 minutes ago, sue said:

Looks like Dangerfield is more positive about Watts:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-06/dangerfield-cats-would-welcome-watts

"He's certainly someone whose best footy is as good as anyone in the competition," Dangerfield told NAB AFL Trade Radio of Watts.

 

LOL.  If anyone tells me Dangerfield is intelligent ever again I will cry.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Petraccattack

[jumbo returns 6,741]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I thought it was pretty obvious the part I had bolded was subjective.

What do you expect the club to say? "We think Jack is a fantastic clubman, a dedicated trainer and footballer and we will be sad to see him go" - questions will obviously then come back as to why we are trading him with 2 years left on his contract.

The other clubs aren't dumb, they'll already know the stuff that is now in the public domain - it's their job to know.

What do I expect the club to say? - Sweet FA

You say that 'other clubs aren't dumb', so why say anything at all?

Just seems dumb and dumber that if you want to trade a player, you wouldn't talk them down 

But, I'm glad that this scenario excites you no end

 

 

[whatwhat say what 22,738]

Dangerfield has never said a bad word about anyone or anything ever

He’d find positives about Hannibal Lecter: “if you’d seen his sautéed leg, you’d know he could’ve been a super talented chef”

[ding 5,126]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

"Hard workers" is a non-negotiable. Just because someone is "skilled", has "class" or is a "matchwinner" they're allowed to bludge and not work as hard as others? Double standards creates a horrible culture and sets a poor example for the rest of the team.

Yep, it looks like the club has finally decided that being a lovely kick/nice bloke is NOT more important than being relied upon to go when its your turn. Solid Citizens are nice, but the last 2 GF's have shown you can win with contested beasts even if they dont have a picture perfect kicking technique. We are moving on, and if it upsets a few i guess that cant be helped.

Im happy with a pick in the 20's.

Cya Jacky boy, its been a real disappointing 9 years.  (bar 1 to be fair)

[sue 9,102]

12 minutes ago, McQueen said:

He praises one element of his game. The one that almost everyone here agrees with.

Dangerfield hasn't seen enough of his preparation or competitiveness to pass judgement but Goodwin and the LG certainly have.

 

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What, you mean the guy who doesn't know Watts from a bar of soap?

Sorry chaps, I'd take the opinion of Dangerfield on a player's capability and usefulness over anyone on this forum.  But I'd also take the opinion of the FD as well. Let's hope they aren't making a big mistake.  Their handling of this has not inspired confidence.  At least Dangefield is talking up Watt's trade value!

As for Dr G's question above, 'What do you expect the club to say', I suggest 'as little as possible and a lot less than they have'.

[SFebes 4,884]

I now think theres now too much extra pressure on Watts if he stays at the Dees, it has gone up, it was already enough and all eyes would be on him a lot more IMO.

My thoughts are Mahoney is saying hes welcome back to deter clubs from offering a crap pick and think its a fire sale, Watts is goneski.

I would guess Goodwin has said, your standards are sub standard and you are in a rut - you will mostly be playing VFL next year & Goodwin wants the best for Jack with a new start.

Edited October 6, 2017 by SFebey

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

2 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

What do I expect the club to say? - Sweet FA

You say that 'other clubs aren't dumb', so why say anything at all?

Just seems dumb and dumber that if you want to trade a player, you wouldn't talk them down 

But, I'm glad that this scenario excites you no end

Completely unrealistic.

They don't say anything and then emotional supporters will start online petitions about trying to keep Watts and threatening to cancel memberships etc and they'll be bagging the club out demanding answers. 

It doesn't excite me at all, I'm just trying to set misconceptions of overly emotional supporters straight so they don't start haranguing the club and slagging off the coach.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

3 minutes ago, sue said:

 

Sorry chaps, I'd take the opinion of Dangerfield on a player's capability and usefulness over anyone on this forum.  But I'd also take the opinion of the FD as well. Let's hope they aren't making a big mistake.  Their handling of this has not inspired confidence.  At least Dangefield is talking up Watt's trade value!

As for Dr G's question above, 'What do you expect the club to say', I suggest 'as little as possible and a lot less than they have'.

You'd take Dangerfield's opinion on Watts over Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney & Jones? OK then

See above - club says nothing and they'll get slammed. Completely ridiculous to believe that would be a better position.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

9 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

Dangerfield has never said a bad word about anyone or anything ever

He’d find positives about Hannibal Lecter: “if you’d seen his sautéed leg, you’d know he could’ve been a super talented chef”

Because he's mindful of not talking down a fellow player in public

I suppose that's okay for our FD though...

[jumbo returns 6,741]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Completely unrealistic.

They don't say anything and then emotional supporters will start online petitions about trying to keep Watts and threatening to cancel memberships etc and they'll be bagging the club out demanding answers. 

It doesn't excite me at all, I'm just trying to set misconceptions of overly emotional supporters straight so they don't start haranguing the club and slagging off the coach.

Supporters are emotional enough without the extra combustibles....

[sue 9,102]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You'd take Dangerfield's opinion on Watts over Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney & Jones? OK then

See above - club says nothing and they'll get slammed. Completely ridiculous to believe that would be a better position.

Try reading what I said before responding.  I said I'd take his opinion over people here.  

You also said if the Club said nothing the members would start sending in petitions etc.  Seems that has happened anyway.   Talking-down Watts in public does nothing for the club's culture, possiby the reverse.

Edited October 6, 2017 by sue

[Bon appetit 23]

If he ends up at Geelong hopefully it will be in exchange for pick 20, which we could use for Forgarty or O'Brien.

[SFebes 4,884]

Watts for Duncan 

[Redleg 40,895]

1 hour ago, sue said:

Agree, though you might add to your list of attributes "good kick and decision maker'  Sad that.

I wasn't listing his attributes, I was looking at the criteria he has been moved on because of.

[Whispering_Jack 30,012]

15 minutes ago, Bon appetit said:

If he ends up at Geelong hopefully it will be in exchange for pick 20, which we could use for Forgarty or O'Brien.

Once the Cats get their compo for Motlop they will have three second round picks which will allow them to offload two to Melbourne for Watts. 

[sue 9,102]

Just now, Redleg said:

I wasn't listing his attributes, I was looking at the criteria he has been moved on because of.

I was just pointing out that it is sad that attributes of "good kick and decision maker'  don't seem to apply to others in the team.

[Redleg 40,895]

21 minutes ago, sue said:

 I said I'd take his opinion over people here.  

 

Of course you are not including me in that. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

3 hours ago, binman said:

I listened to the Roos interview on deetales last night. Brilliant interview. One of the best and most expansive interview i have heard with anyone directly involved with the dees. Roos is relaxed and remarkably open, in a way i suggest is unlikely in a normal media gig.  I recommend  giving it a listen if interested in the last few years at the dees

As has been noted in this thread he touches on Watts (from 5.23 min), but that is only a very small part of what of what is a very wide ranging discussion. That said Roos addresses many of the issues raised in this thread by posters on both sides of the argument.

To be transparent in my position i agree with most of what Roosy says, with one exception. I''m not sure if its a mistake to trade him or not in so far as i fully respect Goodwin's right to make the call and i don't know what the basis is for the decision (Roos acknowledges the same thing). If Goody and the FD decide it is the right decision then that is good enough for me. That doesn't mean i agree with it,  have to like it or that i won't be upset to lose Watts. But it is Goody's team and as someone pointed out the club is privy to data and other information (eg how well or otherwise jack approached his rehab or off season) that we - and Roos - are not.  Also Jack may simply not fit Goody's game plan or type of player he wants (eg not intense enough).

All that said, in light of the debate that is raging here on DL i did find Roosy's comments fascinating given who he is and how well he knows our team. Here are some selected quotes on three of the questions and issues that have been covered in this thread:

Are you a Watts fan

'i'm a huge Watts fan'

'an outstanding player' 

'a very, very good player'

'he elevated his game, certainly in my last year'

'an elite kick, an elite decision maker

'i'm a massive Jack Watts fan'

'he's got weakness and some of them are his responsibility to address' 

'i would take Jack Watts over Jake stringer every day of the week' (this was in the context of what roos said was the unfair criticism of jack compared to a player like Stringer who has been dropped multiple times over the last 2 years, and who by the by some people are saying is worth a high first round draft pick)

'the perception of jack Watts is just crazy .......its completely unrealistic'

Are they doing the right thing to trade him?

'i'd be disappointed personally but i don't know whats going on'

'i think its a big mistake to trade him but i don't know, i'm only basing that on what i saw last year and this year'

'you need a mix of players to play in your premiership'

Roos finished the discussion on Watts with this unequivocal comment: 'i think it would be a mistake to get rid of him'

Does he impact games enough

'the sort of player that wins you games, certainly in the last two years'

'he has won 6-8 games in the last two years, unquestionably'

'the sort of player every team needs'

'if i was another club and Melbourne rang me and said would you like Jack Watts i couldn't hold of him quick enough' 

'i know there was some criticism of him this year but the games i saw him play he impacted'

 

 

I jump on board with you and dip my hat as well. ROOS to me was a players coach and understands what  Jw has been through his footy career. we wrre a rabble when he arrived at melbourne. 

[sue 9,102]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Of course you are not including me in that. 

OK, I'll make an exception.

But unless Dangerfield is playing games, I do think those who play at a high level and are not dummies are likely to be much better informed opinions than me and other anonymous typists on here.  But less of course than our FD which never makes mistakes (I hope).  Of course I don't have much evidence about Dangerfield's dummy status. From the little I've read, he's not a dummy.

[Ted Lasso 19,501]

God I hope he stays. I just can’t see how any trade deal doesn’t result in a net loss for ya based on watts value vs trade value 

[binman 42,890]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Only one I could think of was Buckley? Maybe Richardson or Leon Cameron?

Actaully i reckon Leon Cameron might be the one. Arguably has struggled to embed a strong culture

[bing181 9,218]

1 hour ago, DSP said:

I didnt say I believe it. Far from it. i simply said that there is an absolute possibility that either a player or someone from MFC talking to a Storm player.

Or even Jack Watts himself. After all, we hear nothing on here but what a good bloke he is and how he's mates with everyone.

[bing181 9,218]

58 minutes ago, sue said:

Sorry chaps, I'd take the opinion of Dangerfield on a player's capability and usefulness

No-one's questioning Watts' capability and usefulness. What's being questioned is his attitude, application, and professionalism.