2017 Post Mortem

[biggestred 5,075]

This club is not about winning flags. It is not about greatness. It is not about excellence.

 

It IS about drifting through. It IS about doing ok when it feels like it. It IS about feeding egos and telling itself how good it is.

 

It makes me sick.

[binman 42,849]

16 minutes ago, brendan said:

I think the club has finally broken me, I'm that flat I don't want nothing to do with them at the moment don't care who we recruit, don't care who wins the b&f, don't care who finishes highest in the Brownlow just don't care about the MFC Anymore, 13 years of buying a membership for zero return, in sure I will come around at some point but it's going to be a tough 1 this time 

Ive followed the dees passionately for more than 40 years. This is the worst ive felt. And tgat includes watching two flag losses live

Edited August 30, 2017 by binman

[Jara 1,153]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Ive followed the dees passionately for more than 40 years. This is the worst ive felt. And tgat includes watching two flag losses live

I echo most of that. Something died for me on the week-end.

[old55 23,532]

I think Goodwin is a very good coach with a game plan that can win finals.  He shows a lot of flexibility and creativity at selection and on match-day and seems to have a very good relationship with the players.  The players he brought to the club - Hibberd and Melksham - they were there when the whips were cracking and both have been good pick-ups.  I like his handling of the press conferences, he knows what we need to improve and he'll make inroads.

We've got some game play issues - inability to make and stick tackles, inability of most of our players to reliably hit easy targets, inability to compete in the air around the ground.  Some are easier to fix than others with personnel upgrades.

Culture and on-field leadership clearly remains a problem - we lost 5 very winnable games this year, we need the new generation of leaders to come through.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Fifty-5

[beelzebub 23,331]

Hmm Goody's gameplan took the one player capable of pack marking and goaling ( esp after Jesse retired ) and stuck him down the other end where he had to think too much...and we all saw how that went !!

Simon may prove capable but he's not delivering Goodwins ....

Hopefully SG ver 2.018 is bettet.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

14 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think Goodwin is a very good coach with a game plan that can win finals.  He shows a lot of flexibility and creativity at selection and on match-day and seems to have a very good relationship with the players.  The players he brought to the club - Hibberd and Melksham - they were there when the whips were cracking and both have been good pick-ups.  I like his handling of the press conferences, he knows what we need to improve and he'll make inroads.

We've got some game play issues - inability to make and stick tackles, inability of most of our players to reliably hit easy targets, inability to compete in the air around the ground.  Some are easier to fix than others with personnel upgrades.

Culture and on-field leadership clearly remains a problem - we lost 5 very winnable games this year, we need the new generation of leaders to come through.

I like Goodwin and our game plan, but I feel we need to be more direct out of the stoppages and hold our forward line structure in place early in games. We are obsessed about maintaining possession out of the stoppages, which leads to over handball, and generally costs us territory. This plan works well later, when the heat of the game reduces, but is costing us in the first quarter.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

27 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think Goodwin is a very good coach with a game plan that can win finals.  He shows a lot of flexibility and creativity at selection and on match-day and seems to have a very good relationship with the players.  The players he brought to the club - Hibberd and Melksham - they were there when the whips were cracking and both have been good pick-ups.  I like his handling of the press conferences, he knows what we need to improve and he'll make inroads.

We've got some game play issues - inability to make and stick tackles, inability of most of our players to reliably hit easy targets, inability to compete in the air around the ground.  Some are easier to fix than others with personnel upgrades.

Culture and on-field leadership clearly remains a problem - we lost 5 very winnable games this year, we need the new generation of leaders to come through.

I agree with all of this, especially his flexibility with positioning and his willingness to change things up when needed.

I do think he was a little stubborn with the overall gameplan, in terms of having the two coming off the back of the square.  It worked in the first half of the year but teams started working it out in the second half of the year.  He needed to make a few tweaks but seemed to just stick with it.  It really came back to haunt us in the North and GWS games when the conditions called for something different.

I think he'll learn from that though and they will develop a plan B and C over the course of the summer to be ready for it next time.

[monoccular 17,418]

18 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

This is has prob already been posted...... If true sums up our result!

Leadership,leadership,leadership

I have said it before.......misplaced arrogance throughout the club.

Once again....2 years in a row now....getting ahead of ourselves.  

When will it end?

42 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think Goodwin is a very good coach with a game plan that can win finals.  He shows a lot of flexibility and creativity at selection and on match-day and seems to have a very good relationship with the players.  The players he brought to the club - Hibberd and Melksham - they were there when the whips were cracking and both have been good pick-ups.  I like his handling of the press conferences, he knows what we need to improve and he'll make inroads.

We've got some game play issues - inability to make and stick tackles, inability of most of our players to reliably hit easy targets, inability to compete in the air around the ground.  Some are easier to fix than others with personnel upgrades.

Culture and on-field leadership clearly remains a problem - we lost 5 very winnable games this year, we need the new generation of leaders to come through.

Inability or unwillingness???

And winning those 5 would have had us well and truly in the top 4.  But they were, sadly as a long suffering MFC supporter totally predictable, as the club continues to lack any semblance of ruthlessness.  Those losses, and the failure to put away the likes of Saints and Bears in the closing rounds, just shows how far off we are.

Can Goody force that change alone?

[beelzebub 23,331]

9 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I have said it before.......misplaced arrogance throughout the club.

Once again....2 years in a row now....getting ahead of ourselves.  

When will it end?

Inability or unwillingness???

And winning those 5 would have had us well and truly in the top 4.  But they were, sadly as a long suffering MFC supporter totally predictable, as the club continues to lack any semblance of ruthlessness.  Those losses, and the failure to put away the likes of Saints and Bears in the closing rounds, just shows how far off we are.

Can Goody force that change alone?

Much to ponder here along with some of WB thinkings.

We seem to get stuck. Roos for all his good work was imho lousy as a game day tactician. Goodwin is much much better but still seems to get nutted when the other lot change up quickly and strategically.  I realise you can only get instructions out so quickly but then this , for mine, goes to preparation and Plan B's etc. These should just be matter of fact change-ups via the leaders on the ground to call. If this then that, if other ...change. just morph.

Players should already under guidance have studied their foes for the day and have different tactics for different times. 

Time and time again the defence gets caught out because of limitations in the nature of our structure.

So either the structures are too limited/simple because of the 'talent' or the players are restricted to an inadequate set of instruction.

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

14 hours ago, binman said:

Ive followed the dees passionately for more than 40 years. This is the worst ive felt. And tgat includes watching two flag losses live

There's nothing like the present, I guess.

Yeah, I was at the G for both those losses, too, until the bitter end. Huge losses they were. We were never in those games though, not even close. Different kind of feeling then, knowing that the better teams won and we weren't quite good enough.

Go back a few years earlier to the '87 pre-lim. For me, nothing can rival the hurt and disappointment of that result, that missed opportunity. There at VFL Park (near the dreaded Eishold pocket!) as a 13 year old, I remember sobbing uncontrollably at the end - along with thousands of others - for what seemed like an eternity on my dad's shoulder and into my Melb scarf. Got the scarf still - don't think it's been washed since. No tears this year, just anger and exasperation.

[Akum 2,660]

Good series of posts here about Goody. I think he's got the great majority of it right, and I think he has it in him to be a very good coach. If so, this could be the stinger that spurs him to a very successful coaching career with us. As long as he listens to the right people & not the wrong people.

[Deeoldfart 8,016]

Like others, I've taken little interest in the AFL since the weekend, and to a large extent this has included reading Demonland (much to Mrs Deeoldfart's delight, it's down from perhaps 3 hours per day to maybe half an hour per day).  Consequently, I've read only a fraction of this thread.  Anyway, I bumped into another ardent (and equally disillusioned) Dees fan at the shops this morning, and she pointed out that the for / against points for WCE at the end of the home and away season were:

For:  1964

Against:  1858

Facsinating numbers, and no doubt for some, irrefutable proof that Norm Smith's curse is still shrouds our Club.

Sorry if posted  elsewhere

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

27 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

Like others, I've taken little interest in the AFL since the weekend, and to a large extent this has included reading Demonland (much to Mrs Deeoldfart's delight, it's down from perhaps 3 hours per day to maybe half an hour per day).  Consequently, I've read only a fraction of this thread.  Anyway, I bumped into another ardent (and equally disillusioned) Dees fan at the shops this morning, and she pointed out that the for / against points for WCE at the end of the home and away season were:

For:  1964

Against:  1858

Facsinating numbers, and no doubt for some, irrefutable proof that Norm Smith's curse is still shrouds our Club.

Sorry if posted  elsewhere

Her name isn't Delphi, is it

[layzie 33,793]

What a difference a week makes. Forgive me for stating the obvious but how much different did this time last week feel? Quickest transition from Winter to Spring ever.

[Dee Dee 1,108]

To paraphrase T S Eliot:

This is the way the season ends, not with a bang but a whimper.

And last Saturday - a whimper it was.

[Lucifers Hero 39,727]

On SEN I heard a review of our season.  Things that stood out:

• We had the 4th youngest squad but no consolation Richmond have the 5th youngest.  (I think our youth is something we look for as an out when we lose)
• We have lost 11 1st quarters - negative 126 points. ie we have had to catch up a total of 21 goals.  It is no wonder we can't run out games.
• Unsurprisingly we were 4th for quarters won. 
• This one is really damning:  16th for 'ball movement' behind only Carlton and Freo.  Not entirely sure how they measure it but I think it was related to inside 50's to scores or scoring shots.  However, it is measured it is horrible.  Are we the only club that does not have a 'ball movement' coach?  

We all want the team to bury clubs but we won't as long as we keep losing 1st quarters so badly as we simply run out of puff and can't put them to the sword. 

Someone needs to unlock the mystery of why we have such slow starts!

Unless we fix those fundamentals we aren't going anywhere and we will wear out kids our digging us our of a hole each game to scrounge out a win.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

DON'T WORRY.

OD, BB, Daisy, and yours truly will solve our problems over a few glasses of Red next week.

Stay Tuned.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

11 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

On SEN I heard a review of our season.  Things that stood out:

• We had the 4th youngest squad but no consolation Richmond have the 5th youngest.  (I think our youth is something we look for as an out when we lose)
• We have lost 11 1st quarters - negative 126 points. ie we have had to catch up a total of 21 goals.  It is no wonder we can't run out games.
• Unsurprisingly we were 4th for quarters won. 
• This one is really damning:  16th for 'ball movement' behind only Carlton and Freo.  Not entirely sure how they measure it but I think it was related to inside 50's to scores or scoring shots.  However, it is measured it is horrible.  Are we the only club that does not have a 'ball movement' coach?  

We all want the team to bury clubs but we won't as long as we keep losing 1st quarters so badly as we simply run out of puff and can't put them to the sword. 

Someone needs to unlock the mystery of why we have such slow starts!

Unless we fix those fundamentals we aren't going anywhere and we will wear out kids out digging us our of a hole each game to scrounge out a win.

Good post.

26 and 16 point deficits in both North games although the Tassie game could be excused.

27 to Hawthorn.

32 to Collingwood.

All of them below us at the time.

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Demon77

[Dr. Gonzo 24,206]

Interestingly earlier in the year we were up the top for quarters won so something went horribly wrong along the way.

Although Richmond have 5th youngest list their best players are all 25+ ours are 20yo's

Edited August 31, 2017 by Dr. Gonzo

[jnrmac 20,058]

9 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think Goodwin is a very good coach with a game plan that can win finals.  He shows a lot of flexibility and creativity at selection and on match-day and seems to have a very good relationship with the players.  The players he brought to the club - Hibberd and Melksham - they were there when the whips were cracking and both have been good pick-ups.  I like his handling of the press conferences, he knows what we need to improve and he'll make inroads.

We've got some game play issues - inability to make and stick tackles, inability of most of our players to reliably hit easy targets, inability to compete in the air around the ground.  Some are easier to fix than others with personnel upgrades.

Culture and on-field leadership clearly remains a problem - we lost 5 very winnable games this year, we need the new generation of leaders to come through.

The evidence would suggest otherwise. He may well turn into one but he isn't yet.

[binman 42,849]

8 hours ago, Ben E said:

There's nothing like the present, I guess.

Yeah, I was at the G for both those losses, too, until the bitter end. Huge losses they were. We were never in those games though, not even close. Different kind of feeling then, knowing that the better teams won and we weren't quite good enough.

Go back a few years earlier to the '87 pre-lim. For me, nothing can rival the hurt and disappointment of that result, that missed opportunity. There at VFL Park (near the dreaded Eishold pocket!) as a 13 year old, I remember sobbing uncontrollably at the end - along with thousands of others - for what seemed like an eternity on my dad's shoulder and into my Melb scarf. Got the scarf still - don't think it's been washed since. No tears this year, just anger and exasperation.

Good lord. I had blocked that out. I was also there. A baby faced 18 year old. Numb. Adults all around me in tears and shock. Nothing could ever compare to that loss. Not sure what i was thinking. But i wasn't angry.

This time i was furious.

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

On SEN I heard a review of our season.  Things that stood out:

• We had the 4th youngest squad but no consolation Richmond have the 5th youngest.  (I think our youth is something we look for as an out when we lose)
• We have lost 11 1st quarters - negative 126 points. ie we have had to catch up a total of 21 goals.  It is no wonder we can't run out games.
• Unsurprisingly we were 4th for quarters won. 
• This one is really damning:  16th for 'ball movement' behind only Carlton and Freo.  Not entirely sure how they measure it but I think it was related to inside 50's to scores or scoring shots.  However, it is measured it is horrible.  Are we the only club that does not have a 'ball movement' coach?  

We all want the team to bury clubs but we won't as long as we keep losing 1st quarters so badly as we simply run out of puff and can't put them to the sword. 

Someone needs to unlock the mystery of why we have such slow starts!

Unless we fix those fundamentals we aren't going anywhere and we will wear out kids our digging us our of a hole each game to scrounge out a win.

Interesting stats. These could be due to a few things like building up to fitness levels required, which i have mentioned before, that we were behind the 8ball with, in previous years. 16th ball movement, i would tend to put down to game plan bedding in , with maybe first year coach trying not to burn us out. For that matter will Toiges burn out or thanks to AFL 's week off, they won't..... 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

20 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

The evidence would suggest otherwise. He may well turn into one but he isn't yet.

The evidence, regardless of our finish to the year, is 12 wins and improvement in many areas across the board.  That's evidence of a very good coach, but he'll need to show he is a great coach to get us to the next level.  

[bing181 9,217]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I think our youth is something we look for as an out when we lose

It's not an out, it's an explanation. If all else is more or less equivalent, more experienced sides will always have the upper hand.

There are always exceptions, but it's no surprise that premierships are invariably won by teams with a core group of 150+ game players, Hawthorn and Sydney being the case in point in modern times.

[bing181 9,217]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

16th for 'ball movement' behind only Carlton and Freo

Hard to get an exact explanation from Champion Data, but believe it relates to chains of ball movement. A low BME figure would be an indication of ball movement chains breaking down through turnovers etc. 

Poor skills? Not working hard enough as receivers? Lack of experience (knowing where to run to receive the ball and/or create space)?