Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted

I crashed my motorbike on the weekend, I hit ice. I dislocated my finger, tore my pants and cracked my helmet, I remember a bang but that is all. No headaches no issues, will need a new helmet.

Now I have heard and read many reports about helmets not minimizing concussion but I would never ride a motorbike or a push bike without one. Does it give me confidence? Yes. If you can slow down the deceleration of the brain then you may reduce concussion. I understand the increased risk of neck & back injuries. A risk I accept.

We have had this discussion many times and it would appear that the two sides simply disagree.

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 05:19, ManDee said:

I crashed my motorbike on the weekend, I hit ice. I dislocated my finger, tore my pants and cracked my helmet, I remember a bang but that is all. No headaches no issues, will need a new helmet.

Now I have heard and read many reports about helmets not minimizing concussion but I would never ride a motorbike or a push bike without one. Does it give me confidence? Yes. If you can slow down the deceleration of the brain then you may reduce concussion. I understand the increased risk of neck & back injuries. A risk I accept.

We have had this discussion many times and it would appear that the two sides simply disagree.

Expand  

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 04:56, Lord Travis said:

Good to see him in a helmet and back training. Hope the club tries everything they can to get him back and playing whilst looking after his safety. He's a talented and driven kid who we invested a pick 3 in so obviously we'd love him to have a long healthy career in the red and blue!

Expand  

I'd love Brayshaw in for Bugg right now... getting this kid fit and healthy is super important to our future success.

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 05:30, Clint Bizkit said:

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

Expand  

Thanks Doc.

 

  • Like 1

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 05:30, Clint Bizkit said:

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

Expand  

that is true, but i wouldn't say it does nothing for concussion. a properly fitted helmet with appropriate cushioning material should help a little.

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 05:59, daisycutter said:

that is true, but i wouldn't say it does nothing for concussion. a properly fitted helmet with appropriate cushioning material should help a little.

Expand  

It's not actually stopping the inertia of the brain moving within the skull which is what causes concussion.

Helmets are great for protecting your skull and for protection from scratches and cuts, but nothing for concussion. 

Look at the helmets NFL players wear and all the concussion issues they have.

  • Like 2

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 05:19, ManDee said:

I crashed my motorbike on the weekend, I hit ice. I dislocated my finger, tore my pants and cracked my helmet, I remember a bang but that is all. No headaches no issues, will need a new helmet.

Now I have heard and read many reports about helmets not minimizing concussion but I would never ride a motorbike or a push bike without one. Does it give me confidence? Yes. If you can slow down the deceleration of the brain then you may reduce concussion. I understand the increased risk of neck & back injuries. A risk I accept.

We have had this discussion many times and it would appear that the two sides simply disagree.

Expand  

Motorbike helmet is not the same as sports helmet. The analogy isn't apples with apples. A number of years ago I came off my pushbike, cracked my head on a signpost splitting the helmet open and received concussion. Sure, I may have died without the helmet, but it didn't stop the concussion. It's just anecdotal evidence.

My understanding is that brain specialists all tend to agree about sports helmets preventing cuts, bruises and possible fractures but doing SFA to prevent concussion, apart from wearer confidence (which as others have pointed out can also work in reverse).

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Why can no one read "MAY REDUCE CONCUSSION"

Most experts say helmets cannot prevent concussion, which I accept. I am not talking about prevention but reduction. Can anyone categorically prove that some helmets may NOT reduce concussion? I have not read that yet.

 

Edit - I left a word out - BOLD

Edited by ManDee
  • Like 3

Posted (edited)
  On 06/06/2017 at 06:03, Clint Bizkit said:

It's not actually stopping the inertia of the brain moving within the skull which is what causes concussion.

Helmets are great for protecting your skull and for protection from scratches and cuts, but nothing for concussion. 

Look at the helmets NFL players wear and all the concussion issues they have.

Expand  

you didn't read what i said

i've said all you've said many times before, but it's not accurate to say they can give zero help to concussion. appropriate padding material can reduce some of the initial deceleration forces.  by saying it can have a small effect is not claiming it can stop concussion, but it might make a small reduction in the severity of the concussion, or even avoid it in a minor head clash.

i'd certainly be looking at the new one that was referenced here previously (can't remember the name)

Edited by daisycutter
Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 06:28, ManDee said:

Why can no one read "MAY REDUCE CONCUSSION"

Most experts say helmets cannot prevent concussion, which I accept. I am not talking about prevention but reduction. Can anyone categorically prove that some helmets may reduce concussion? I have not read that yet.

Expand  

I would have thought that the best plan would be to change a player's approach to the game to remove the chances of being concussed at all.  Most other players don't suffer repeated concussions, so what are they doing differently?  Even wearing a helmet that "may reduce" concussion, is not going to lessen the long term affects... I don't know for sure, but isn't there a chance that all it is doing is prolonging the players footballing career while possibly masking the longer term affects due to more lesser concussions occurring over a longer period of time; this could be just as bad as a career shortened by severe concussions .

Posted (edited)
  On 06/06/2017 at 06:28, ManDee said:

Why can no one read "MAY REDUCE CONCUSSION"

Most experts say helmets cannot prevent concussion, which I accept. I am not talking about prevention but reduction. Can anyone categorically prove that some helmets may reduce concussion? I have not read that yet.

Expand  

Excuse being facetious, but it's also true that if Gus grew his hair long and then got a permed afro it may also reduce just a tiny bit of concussion.

Anything may. 

If the advice was that helmets have been proven to reduce concussion, the afl would make them compulsory for all.

Edited by Moonshadow

Posted

I feel I'm banging my head against a wall just reading this.

  • Like 6
Posted

I wouldn't have thought a helmet would make any difference to the deceleration on the brain inside the skull.

In much the same way as someone driving a car headon into a brick wall at 60km/h, the whiplash effect of going from 60km/h to 0km/h is not going to be any different no matter how many extra layers of protection the car has externally.


Posted
  On 24/05/2017 at 07:36, Roger Mellie said:

Agreed, the only thing this club is owed for is Lumumba

Expand  

Maybe, but we were silly enough to take eon someone who was very obviously for all to see a complete narcissist

  On 06/06/2017 at 05:30, Clint Bizkit said:

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

Expand  

 

  On 06/06/2017 at 05:59, Clint Bizkit said:

I know a lot about this.

Expand  

Clint - are you. a neurosurgeon in disguise?

  On 06/06/2017 at 07:08, Biffen said:

I feel I'm banging my head against a wall just reading this.

Expand  

Post of the year, Biff.

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 06:03, Clint Bizkit said:

It's not actually stopping the inertia of the brain moving within the skull which is what causes concussion.

Helmets are great for protecting your skull and for protection from scratches and cuts, but nothing for concussion. 

Look at the helmets NFL players wear and all the concussion issues they have.

Expand  

Correct. 

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 07:16, JTR said:

I wouldn't have thought a helmet would make any difference to the deceleration on the brain inside the skull.

In much the same way as someone driving a car headon into a brick wall at 60km/h, the whiplash effect of going from 60km/h to 0km/h is not going to be any different no matter how many extra layers of protection the car has externally.

Expand  

Not quite so.

A modern car well designed with a crumple zone will decelerate just that little more slowly than a rigid shelled older type "solid" car from the 1960s so concussions and whiplashes though not prevented may be reduced.

  • Like 1
Posted

Both side are correct in theory. But in practice, current technology helmets can only be of minor effect in the most marginal case.

It is just basic physics.  Concussion occurs because the momentum of the skull and contents is reduced to zero (or even reversed) in too short a time - a large decelleration which leads to the brain sloshing around and concussion.  Padding will indeed help spread the change in momentum over a longer time.  If the time to come to a stop is larger, the decelleration is smaller and there will be less sloshing around of the brain. 

However in practice, the problem is that existing padding materials would have to be ridiculously thick to bring the decelleration down into the 'no concussion' zone.      Imagine a player with a 3 foot surround of polystyrene beads in a bag around his head - he has all of that 3 feet and time for his head to come to a stop before it reaches the immovable object. 

But there are occasional reports of new high-tech materials which may make the padding small enough to be wearable.  No idea if the reports are reliable.  

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 07:16, JTR said:

I wouldn't have thought a helmet would make any difference to the deceleration on the brain inside the skull.

In much the same way as someone driving a car headon into a brick wall at 60km/h, the whiplash effect of going from 60km/h to 0km/h is not going to be any different no matter how many extra layers of protection the car has externally.

Expand  

check out Unequal Halo head bands

  Quote

Consumers should take comfort in knowing there are several governmental agencies that regularly review and monitor product claims made by companies, such as Unequal. These type of products are highly-scrutinized because of the millions of concussions and head injuries that devastate our youth each year. In the last five years, several companies marketing unsubstantiated claims were forced to remove those claims, stop selling the product, and even to cease operations. Our claim, Reducing Concussion Risk, is validated by science, doctors, and testing by accredited independent labs approved by leading organizations (NOCSAE, FIFA, ASTM, etc.) that show Unequal significantly reduces concussion risk, compared to no head protection.

Expand  
  Quote

UNEQUAL REDUCES CONCUSSION RISK.

UNEQUAL HALO TESTS SHOW A GENERAL REDUCTION IN ACCELERATION,
A KEY COMPONENT IN THE REDUCTION OF CONCUSSION RISK.

  • University research papers, published reports, medical studies and lab tests on sports head protection conclude acceleration is a key element in determining a protective product’s potential to reduce concussion risk among athletes.
  • VA Tech’s landmark, peer-reviewed study helped established their STARS rating system for football helmets. STARS has become a de facto standard to which all professional and collegiate equipment managers respect and monitor. The authors of this study and others emphasize that peak acceleration is a main driver in determining concussion risk; that lower peak acceleration predicts a lower incidence of concussion.
  • ASTM’s soccer headgear standard measures acceleration reduction in lab tests, comparing a “head form” with and without headgear.
  • NOCSAE, the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment, developed the Severity Index (SI) formula, which is a measurement of the protective qualities of helmets for several sports. Football helmets, for instance, must fall below a 1200 SI to be certified for use by NOCSAE. Acceleration is a main component of the SI formula. Lower acceleration = Lower SI = lower concussion risk.
Expand  

unequal-technologies-halo-10mm-concussion-prevention

Posted
  On 06/06/2017 at 03:16, DeeSpencer said:

Yes he was wearing a helmet thing morning. And was kept out of any competitive drills.

He doesn't really need confidence. He needs technique training, awareness, strength and a bit of good luck. 

Expand  

Really ?

I'd say he needs a lot of confidence.

Posted

I was of the belief that it wouldn't help too, but whatever. Angus has access to much better advice than I do, so if he thinks this will help - even if it is purely for confidence - I'm all for it.

  • Like 2

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    TRAINING: Wednesday 22nd January 2025

    Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force for training at Gosch's Paddock on Wednesday morning for the MFC's School Holidays Open Training Session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS REHAB: TMac, Chandler, McVee, Tholstrup, Brown, Spargo Brown might have passed his fitness test as he’s back out with the main group.  Sparrow not present. Kozzy not present either.  Mini Rehab group has broken off from the match sim (contact) group: Max, Trac, Lever, Fullarton

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 20th January 2025

    Demonland Trackwatcher Gator attended training out at Casey Fields to bring you the following observations from Preseason Training. GATOR'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS There were 5 in the main rehab group, namely Gawn, Petracca, Fullarton, Woewodin and Lever.  Laurie was running laps by himself, as was Jefferson.  Chandler, as has been reported, had his arm in a sling.  Lindsay did a bit of lap running later on. Some of the ''rehab 5'' participated in non contact drills and b

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 15th January 2025

    There were a number of Demonland Trackwatchers at Gosch's Paddock this morning to bring you their observations from Preseason Training. KEV MARTIN'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS They were going hard at each other. The sims were in two 15 minute blocks. The second block finished a few minutes early, they gathered and had another 7 minutes at it. I think they were asked to compete, as they would play against an opposition. There was plenty of niggle, between some of them. At the end o

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 13th January 2025

    Better late than never … and quite frankly, there’s very little to report other than that training took place at Casey Fields this morning, that Tracc was there nursing his rib injury and that some photographs are on the club’s social media including this one of Clarrie in Raging Bull stance that gives rise for confidence. The other news is that the club has a new train on player in 185cm Dandenong Stingrays midfielder Noah Hibbins-Hargreaves (love the hyphenated name which is just so fitti

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Thursday 9th January 2025

    Welcome back to Demonland for those like me who have been on vacation. I’m posting this with some trepidation because of a certain amount of uncertainty surrounding the return of preseason training in 2025 after a flurry of weddings including those of our coach, one of our superstar players and a former premiership champion player and bloke, not to mention the recent mysterious incident that occurred on the Mornington Peninsula.  I believe that the team reassembles this morning at Casey Fie

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 18th December 2024

    It was the final session of 2024 before the Christmas/New Years break and the Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force to bring you the following preseason training observations from Wednesday's session at Gosch's Paddock. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS TRAINING: Petracca, Oliver, Melksham, Woewodin, Langdon, Rivers, Billings, Sestan, Viney, Fullarton, Adams, Langford, Lever, Petty, Spargo, Fritsch, Bowey, Laurie, Kozzy, Mentha, George, May, Gawn, Turner Tholstrup, Kentfi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 16th December 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers braved the sweltering heat to bring you their Preseason Training observations from Gosch's Paddock on Monday morning. SCOOP JUNIOR'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I went down today in what were pretty ordinary conditions - hot and windy. When I got there, they were doing repeat simulations of a stoppage on the wing and then moving the ball inside 50. There seemed to be an emphasis on handballing out of the stoppage, usually there were 3 or 4 handballs to

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 1

    TRAINING: Friday 13th December 2024

    With only a few sessions left before the Christmas break a number of Demonlander Trackwatchers headed down to Gosch's Paddock to bring you their observations from this morning's preseason training session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS PLAYERS IN ATTENDANCE: JVR, Salem, McVee, Petracca, Windsor, Viney, Lever, Spargo, Turner, Gawn, Tholstrup, Oliver, Billings, Langdon, Laurie, Bowey, Melksham, Langford, Lindsay, Jefferson, Howes, McAdam, Rivers, TMac, Adams, Hore, Verrall,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 11th December 2024

    A few new faces joined our veteran Demonland Trackwatchers on a beautiful morning out at Gosch's Paddock for another Preseason Training Session. BLWNBA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I arrived at around 1015 and the squad was already out on the track. The rehab group consisted of XL, McAdam, Melksham, Spargo and Sestan. Lever was also on restricted duties and appeared to be in runners.  The main group was doing end-to-end transition work in a simulated match situation. Ball mov

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...