Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[What 18,810]

Just now, DominatrixTyson said:

800k a year was 640,000 before the CBA though. Is it really overs? 

No its not overs, Lever will be worth every penny.

Hope the Demons are active behind the scenes, or will another team get the big fish as usual while we end up empty handed?

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,805]

Thats the offer from WB, MFC would have to top that, How far you reckon they would sell their soul, only Defender I'd be paying that money for is Rance and he's not available. Why exactly do we need him. This has been leaked deliberately to put him off his game against the dogs Friday Night.

[whatwhat say what 18,990]

$4m over 5 years is not a huge amount for a 21 year old key back who looks like becoming one of the best defenders in the competition

if the dogs are offering that sort of money, either they're not keeping jj or two or three of boyd, the elder, murphy and morris must be retiring...or both

jj wants $800k himself, and there has been some talk that essendon might be keen...three way deal in the offing?

[deeko 937]

Admittedly I haven't seen any footy the last month as on a honeymoon still so just pop in for a peek when there's wifi.

From what I have seen of Lever, he is worth every cent. He's skilled, he's quick and importantly he's agressive at the pill. He's all the good parts of the Macs and Frost together with none of the occasional turn overs

I haven't seen any of Oscars rise (which is great to hear) but when opportunities like a gun CHB come your way i struggle to see how anyone could say no.

800k I think is pocket change to bring him home to be part of something special

[faultydet 7,593]

1 hour ago, DemonAndrew said:

$4m over 5 years is not a huge amount for a 21 year old key back who looks like becoming one of the best defenders in the competition

if the dogs are offering that sort of money, either they're not keeping jj or two or three of boyd, the elder, murphy and morris must be retiring...or both

jj wants $800k himself, and there has been some talk that essendon might be keen...three way deal in the offing?

Johannisen wants $800k per season?!?!?!

 

Good god! He is not worth anything remotely close to that.

[faultydet 7,593]

1 minute ago, deeko said:

Admittedly I haven't seen any footy the last month as on a honeymoon still so just pop in for a peek when there's wifi.

From what I have seen of Lever, he is worth every cent. He's skilled, he's quick and importantly he's agressive at the pill. He's all the good parts of the Macs and Frost together with none of the occasional turn overs

I haven't seen any of Oscars rise (which is great to hear) but when opportunities like a gun CHB come your way i struggle to see how anyone could say no.

800k I think is pocket change to bring him home to be part of something special

Agree, a star CHB is worth that, under the new cba.

We have many good young players we need to keep though, and others will undoubtedly come sniffing.

[SFebes 4,692]

6 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

$4m over 5 years is not a huge amount for a 21 year old key back who looks like becoming one of the best defenders in the competition

if the dogs are offering that sort of money, either they're not keeping jj or two or three of boyd, the elder, murphy and morris must be retiring...or both

jj wants $800k himself, and there has been some talk that essendon might be keen...three way deal in the offing?

JJ last month of footy has put a huge hole in what he wants, he'll get nowhere near that now. In fact he's probably close to losing his spot in the side IMO

[Gator 16,893]

$850K for Lever spread out over 4 years is fine.

He's a bona fide star in the making and with him in defence, Gawn in ruck, Hogan CHF and our building midfield we'd be a force to be reckoned with.

Oscar, Tom, and Frost are a NQR defensive unit.  Getting Lever would be a huge fillip.  

Yes, it would shake the tree and the above named 3 plus Lever don't fit, but Lever is comfortably better than all 3 of them.  If you could get it done you would.

Edited July 4, 2017 by ProDee

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games.

Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. 

Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. 

This year we have leaked far too many goals through our questionable defence. Frost and Oscar gift goals to the oppo too often. I hope we make an offer for Lever. 

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[whatwhat say what 18,990]

16 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games.

Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. 

Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. 

This year we have leaked far too many goals because of our lack of quality key defenders. I hope we make an offer for Lever. 

very harsh on frost. has been playing as #1 key defender in the #9 defensive side

has the speed and strength to play on the best forwards in the game, and takes the game on going the other way

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

6 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

very harsh on frost. has been playing as #1 key defender in the #9 defensive side

has the speed and strength to play on the best forwards in the game, and takes the game on going the other way

I don't believe that's harsh. I see it as the truth, he was a rookie for that very reason. He is raw, his skills are hit and miss. You've named his athletic qualities which I agree are strong.

Without Hibberd and Jetta, we'd be an absolute mess down there. We need a key defender who does a lot right most of the time. Hibberd and Jetta provide that. We need a key defender who will do that too.

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[Moonshadow 16,211]

$800-850k is not overs. If he matures into a top 3 kpd in the league, which appears likely, it will be worth it. Does he fill a need? We have quantity not quality, so yes.

Given there's an extra 20% in SC we can expect to see more of these mega deals become the norm.

Hope we are into him and an experienced, high end mid.

Reckon he might stay at crows.

[SFebes 4,692]

My only issue with Lever, after being to a few Crows games is that he seems to play a loose man in defence quite often, so unsure if he is any good as a gorilla KPD? Having said that he has all the right attributes for an upgrade on what we have anyway.

[KingDingAling 3,596]

47 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games.

Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. 

Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. 

This year we have leaked far too many goals through our questionable defence. Frost and Oscar gift goals to the oppo too often. I hope we make an offer for Lever. 

 

Oscar McDonald is developing really well. We forget that he is a young defender, and he is learning his craft on the job. I think he is coming off of his best month of football. He is improving at a rate I wouldn't of anticipated. He is starting to look more balanced as the weeks go on. So much improvement still left to come. IMO you are being harsh on OMAC.

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

22 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Oscar McDonald is developing really well. We forget that he is a young defender, and he is learning his craft on the job. I think he is coming off of his best month of football. He is improving at a rate I wouldn't of anticipated. He is starting to look more balanced as the weeks go on. So much improvement still left to come. IMO you are being harsh on OMAC.

 

It doesn't bother me whether you think I'm being harsh or not. I'm just saying what I see. 

I mean, I don't really understand those who say "he is improving at a rate I wouldn't have anticipated." It's almost nonsensical to me. Are you happy to persist with what we have in the hope that they'll develop into good enough players? That's not how list management works.

It's really simple. The greater the attribute diversity a player has, the greater that player will be. Lever almost has it all and is a key position height. 

Oscar and Frost don't have great attribute diversity. They were late picks due to that very reason and it's questionable whether or not they'll be anything other than average-okay AFL defenders.

Here is a highlights package of Lever, (same age as Oscar) from last year: He had played under 36 games at this point. 

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[spirit of norm smith 12,922]

Agree that Lever is worth every cent but what would we offer???

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,418]

36 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Oscar McDonald is developing really well. We forget that he is a young defender, and he is learning his craft on the job. I think he is coming off of his best month of football. He is improving at a rate I wouldn't of anticipated. He is starting to look more balanced as the weeks go on. So much improvement still left to come. IMO you are being harsh on OMAC.

 

Don't try and change STMJ mind on Oscar Mac, there's no point.

He could get AA full back and he will still pick out his flaws.

He is developing very well and looks like he could be in the top 5-10 tall defenders in the league in a few years time.

[daisycutter 28,562]

11 hours ago, DominatrixTyson said:

800k a year was 640k before the CBA though. Is it really big overs? 

actually 800k was 667k before cba

i.e. 800 = 120% therefore previous would be 800 * 100 / 120

old figure is (new - 1/6) ........ not (new - 1/5)  

the maths nazi 

[Sir Why You Little 34,511]

11 hours ago, DominatrixTyson said:

800k a year was 640k before the CBA though. Is it really big overs? 

Not really. Lever is worth Big $$$'s

Attack begins from Half Back now..We still need a gun on that line.

[Pennant St Dee 11,291]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Not really. Lever is worth Big $$$'s

Attack begins from Half Back now..We still need a gun on that line.

I agree somewhat Wyl but the attack begins with run + quick and good disposal which we have in Salem, Hibberd and Hunt. I like Lever but I am not in the

"Just get it done camp"

When all fit and firing we play very good team defence and our quick ball movement addresses our lack of genuine pace through the middle.

If we chase Lever we need to be weary of the cost in terms of picks. 

Pretty confident the FD will ne well down the road of planning for next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were one of the clubs looking at Tippett at the right price  in terms of Sydney paying a good part of his salary and being desperate enough to off load him to let him go cheaply enough. Many demonlanders will say no but he would be good as a forward option to assist Hoges.

I don't think it will happen but I would assume it's been looked at 

[Sir Why You Little 34,511]

46 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I agree somewhat Wyl but the attack begins with run + quick and good disposal which we have in Salem, Hibberd and Hunt. I like Lever but I am not in the

"Just get it done camp"

When all fit and firing we play very good team defence and our quick ball movement addresses our lack of genuine pace through the middle.

If we chase Lever we need to be weary of the cost in terms of picks. 

Pretty confident the FD will ne well down the road of planning for next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were one of the clubs looking at Tippett at the right price  in terms of Sydney paying a good part of his salary and being desperate enough to off load him to let him go cheaply enough. Many demonlanders will say no but he would be good as a forward option to assist Hoges.

I don't think it will happen but I would assume it's been looked at 

We always should have room for Guns

The days of second best are finished

You would prefer Kurt Tippett to Jake Lever??

please no, we must do better

Tippett has retired in his mind. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Sir Why You Little

[Pennant St Dee 11,291]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We always should have room for Guns

The days of second best are finished

You would prefer Kurt Tippett to Jake Lever??

please no, we must do better

Tippett has retired in his mind. 

Don't misquote me I never said I would prefer Tippett to Lever. I was merely saying don't be surprised if he isn't being considered by the FD. They don't just say yeah no Thanks without assessing all pros and cons.

A. We could do with some more outside  pace to assist Hunt. Think along the Hawks model of Smith and Hill and this can be through the draft.  Lever will cost our first rounder and a player or next years first rounder in a good draft 

B. Again looking forward Weid is progressing and is a couple of years away from a full season of consistent form. Getting another experienced forward in buys him development time in the VFL

C. Midfield depth is something we need in 2019 and beyond with Vince Jones and Lewis all going to be either finished or close to it by that stage. Again something we need to do through the draft

Let me say again we need to be very careful about paying overs for Lever. Trengove from Port will come cheaper and is versatile.

 If I'm giving up 2 first rounders and cash its for Josh Kelly over Lever

[Sir Why You Little 34,511]

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Don't misquote me I never said I would prefer Tippett to Lever. I was merely saying don't be surprised if he isn't being considered by the FD. They don't just say yeah no Thanks without assessing all pros and cons.

A. We could do with some more outside  pace to assist Hunt. Think along the Hawks model of Smith and Hill and this can be through the draft.  Lever will cost our first rounder and a player or next years first rounder in a good draft 

B. Again looking forward Weid is progressing and is a couple of years away from a full season of consistent form. Getting another experienced forward in buys him development time in the VFL

C. Midfield depth is something we need in 2019 and beyond with Vince Jones and Lewis all going to be either finished or close to it by that stage. Again something we need to do through the draft

Let me say again we need to be very careful about paying overs for Lever. Trengove from Port will come cheaper and is versatile.

 If I'm giving up 2 first rounders and cash its for Josh Kelly over Lever

Kurt Tippett is done mate. 

He got his big contract...

Josh Kelly won't be leaving GW$ 

The AFL will make sure of that. They want at least 2 Flags up West

we have to go hard for Lever whilst we can

Edited July 5, 2017 by Sir Why You Little

[Dwight Schrute 16,786]

I think lever is a mil a year player under the new agreement. Kid looks like the next great key defender. 

Lever at one end, with frost and tommy supporting him and hogan, weid and watts up the other end with our midfield is pretty special on paper 

[Mondê 525]

10 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I don't believe that's harsh. I see it as the truth, he was a rookie for that very reason. He is raw, his skills are hit and miss. You've named his athletic qualities which I agree are strong.

Without Hibberd and Jetta, we'd be an absolute mess down there. We need a key defender who does a lot right most of the time. Hibberd and Jetta provide that. We need a key defender who will do that too.

 

Frost goes at a 76% clip, Hibberd also at 76% and Lever at 81%. I think your evaluation was just based on gut feel, also the 5% disposal efficiency differential between Frost and Lever is misleading due to the fact Frost is a line breaker who takes more risks. Lever takes safe options when disposing of the ball which is great but it's a poor comparison with a player like Frost. I think the talk of Frost being a pure athlete is over hyped.