Russel Howcroft on Dean Bailey Article

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

For those that haven't seen it - 

Russel Howcroft tells of regrets over way Melbourne treated Dean Bailey

"Former Melbourne director Russel Howcroft has spoken of his profound admiration for the late Dean Bailey, and his regret at the manner in which the Demons coach departed the club."

[pitmaster 3,513]

There is so much in this article to take in.

But  we all knew why Watts was selected when he was and why that was wrong. Only the player himself will ever be able to tell us what the "long term effect" was but Jack's easy re-entry to training this year suggests he is not the conventional, driven footballer.

The shift in style from Bailey to Neeld's "defensive, robotic style" may have been the issue - well it was at least part of it - but Neeld's hardarse approach without ever having tried to win the players over was a big part of it too. I reckon Neeld lost the players without ever having won them.

But on Bails. Clearly a lovely bloke as all here thought, but he was not getting results. I'd like an insider's view on how much of that was down to interference from the CEO. The CEO actually had a pretty good recruiting record from his earlier time at the MFC. Maybe you don't want a CEO who knows the game that well? Or you need one who knows how to pull his head in?

Interesting that Josh M was allowed to go to the funeral, but not the board, but this article is surely the epitaph for Cameron S.

[Rolling Stone 156]

Nice timing as always by the chief football writer at the sinking ship known as Fairfax.

Just when a club is on the up and up and ready to go on to big things, out comes another story rattling skeletons in the cupboard.

Well played Caro. Isn't it time for a story about Dustin Martin and his bikie dad who got deported or about men who take on females in Asian restuarants with chopsticks?

[rjay 24,878]

Seems to me that he is making excuses for his own failure as a board member.

CS & Neeld are the whipping boys, the easier targets but it was the board that oversaw the whole disaster.

They were ultimately responsible for the mess, compounding mistake upon mistake...

55 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Maybe you don't want a CEO who knows the game that well?

...I would say a CEO getting a bit ahead of himself who thought he knew the game that well.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,692]

54 minutes ago, Rolling Stone said:

Nice timing as always by the chief football writer at the sinking ship known as Fairfax.

Just when a club is on the up and up and ready to go on to big things, out comes another story rattling skeletons in the cupboard.

Well played Caro. Isn't it time for a story about Dustin Martin and his bikie dad who got deported or about men who take on females in Asian restuarants with chopsticks?

I know Caro's not everyone's favourite, but her job is to report on football. And that's what she's done here. Most people complain about her work for confusing opinion and facts. This time it's clear she's just relaying statements made by Russel Howcroft.

As to what Howcroft said, I say, well done for speaking your mind in a low-key, non-grandstanding way while doing so at event to raise funds for a worthwhile charity. Interesting comments made more so by his apparent lack of self-promotion in doing so. 

[Guest]

I'm not sure what is to be achieved here. It just  stokes 5 different fires that were thought to have been extinguished.

CS's epitaph was written when PJ ran the club for 2 years and wasn't involved in some ridiculous c### up of the type that CS was involved in on a bi monthly basis. An apt comparison between the two would be David Brent and Neil Godwin from The Office.

PJ will highlight the differences again when someone approaches someone inside the club to leak more info about that dark period  and they will get none.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Jaded No More 68,867]

What a thought provoking and ultimately sad article.

Bailey was treated horribly by our club, and no coach could have possibly succeeded in the environment in which he found himself in. I have no doubt the players loved him, and he loved them, and as a coach he would have been more successful had he been supported by higher powers. 

It is incredibly sad that a man who set out to do the best for our club, ended up having his own name tarnished and died several years later probably carrying that burden with him. 

Thank god we have moved on from those toxic days. That we actually managed to survive them is a miracle, that we are now thriving off the field (and maybe on it too), is a credit to the new administration.

 

...and the less said about Neeld the better. I still wake up in cold sweats thinking about that horrific period in our club's history!

Edited March 29, 2017 by Jaded

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

Dark Dark Days all of it

RIP Bails

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sir Why You Little

[Pates 9,660]

In some ways I think it's important that period of mismanagement is fully recognised by all parties involved, while some would say it's just dredging up the past I'd say owning up to your failings is important. The club was poorly run in all aspects.

I love Jimmy and he saved our club so that is his ultimate legacy with us but his and the boards decision to stick with CS over Bailey was definitely a mistake. It is what it is. Honestly at the time after THAT game, I didn't think Bailey should continue as coach either. 

Those dark days are behind us though, we are a completely different club. Roos and PJ have managed to show us how to be a real club with everyone pulling in the same direction and we can put that dark period well and truly behind us. 

[hemingway 7,615]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Darl Dark Days all of it

RIP Bails

Dean was a very dignified man of the highest personal standards. 

One does wonder what impact the stress and public humiliation surrounding his dismissal had on his illness.

One of the worst times for the MFC, however, so much worse for Dean and his family. The family also behaved in a dignified manner during the course of his illness and after his death. There were no public recriminations or criticism of the MFC.

Says more about the family than the MFC at the time.

Dean deserved much better. 

 

[praha 11,236]

Very weird and sad point in our club's history.

Jimmy and Co. were part of the solution and the problem.

They oversaw the club's rebirth, and then subsequent near-death. We had never been closer to death as a club as we were between 2011 and 2013. 

Some utterly terrible decisions were made. Many a scapegoat. Erratic changes made in the hope of fixing damaging issues.

Went from one extreme to another. Just a consistent stream of terrible decisions.

186 was a protest, make no mistake. That Jimmy allowed that to continue and for Schwab to remain to oversee the hiring of another coach is a major indictement on his time as club President imo. Harsh reality.

[dazzledavey36 54,278]

Good on Howecroft for admitting his mistakes. Takes a brave man to do that..

I can't find enough words to say how sad i am for Bailey. He was a very smart operator who saw where the game was heading in the fast movement style that is now dominating each game. If Bailey had the likes of PJ and Brendan McCartney around him i have no doubt we would have seen alot more success.

As for Cam Schwab.. He can [censored] right off.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

8 minutes ago, praha said:

Very weird and sad point in our club's history.

Jimmy and Co. were part of the solution and the problem.

They oversaw the club's rebirth, and then subsequent near-death. We had never been closer to death as a club as we were between 2011 and 2013. 

Some utterly terrible decisions were made. Many a scapegoat. Erratic changes made in the hope of fixing damaging issues.

Went from one extreme to another. Just a consistent stream of terrible decisions.

186 was a protest, make no mistake. That Jimmy allowed that to continue and for Schwab to remain to oversee the hiring of another coach is a major indictement on his time as club President imo. Harsh reality.

How Jimmy could  even be president with his illness, the reality is  he should of stepped down years before, no one could run a football club dying 

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

12 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Dean was a very dignified man of the highest personal standards. 

One does wonder what impact the stress and public humiliation surrounding his dismissal had on his illness.

One of the worst times for the MFC, however, so much worse for Dean and his family. The family also behaved in a dignified manner during the course of his illness and after his death. There were no public recriminations or criticism of the MFC.

Says more about the family than the MFC at the time.

Dean deserved much better. 

 

Yes. Class in spades. 

At the time, after 186 I wanted Bails to go. But we didn't know the full story (although it started to come out the previous week)

The position of CS should never have been preserved, regardless of the consequences. 

But what i never understand was..If the players loved Bails so much, how did they allow 186 to occur. 

Was Dean given assurances that were not upheld?

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,486]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. Class in spades. 

At the time, after 186 I wanted Bails to go. But we didn't know the full story (although it started to come out the previous week)

The position of CS should never have been preserved, regardless of the consequences. 

But what i never understand was..If the players loved Bails so much, how did they allow 186 to occur. 

Was Dean given assurances that were not upheld?

This 'protest' part has never made sense to me; how could a coach, who was already under pressure to retain his job, survive a 186 point defeat?  It'll all come out one day but it is a very sad chapter in our club's history.

 

I have no issues with this article, these events should be remembered if for no other reason than to remind all of us that the figures at the club are all human beings.

[tiers 2,829]

Dean Bailey was intelligent, innovative and interesting coach whose personal qualities were exemplary. I had the pleasure of spending time with him in China in 2010 and he impressed me enormously both as a football person and coach.

One of his comments always comes back to me when I consider our club's progress. He said that (paraphrasing) it will take until the team has played at least 70 games (min 4 years) together as a unit before we can expect success. This was how Geelong and Hawthorn developed in the noughties. That he was right but was denied the chance to fulfill his prophecy was the real tragedy of 186.

We now have TMac, Jetta, Vince, Tyson, Viney, Jones, Watts, Hogan and Gawn who have had up to 2 years and more as a core group. Add the developing group including OMac, Hunt, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Weideman, Neal-Bullen, who have shown the ability and consistency to build on the core group, and we have the foundation for success. Just give it time - as Dean said, 70 games together as a unit.

I suspect the FD knows and understands this principle very well. I will watch with growing expectations.

[McQueen 17,864]

10 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

This 'protest' part has never made sense to me; how could a coach, who was already under pressure to retain his job, survive a 186 point defeat?  It'll all come out one day but it is a very sad chapter in our club's history.

 

I have no issues with this article, these events should be remembered if for no other reason than to remind all of us that the figures at the club are all human beings.

Me neither.

Poor decision by Jim and the board to fire Bails rather than Schwab. Particularly if it was (as alleged) a supposed way of remonstrating against the CEO - which the players had no right to do anyway.

Thankfully, these brighter times and hopefully successful futures will help erase the events of such a dark period.

Good Lord it was a terrible time.

[Cranky Franky 2,031]

I'll tell you what played a big role in the demise of Dean Bailey (and also Neeld).

Between 2007 & 2010 we had some reasonably high draft picks which should have been used to rebuild the Club.

Our selections in that time included Cale Morton, Addam Maric, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Rohan Bail, Jordan Gysberts & Lucas Cook.

 

[Whispering_Jack 29,779]

I don't think there's a person interested in the club who was happy with the way in which the situation was dealt with by all of the parties involved at the time. Howcroft's revelations shouldn't be surprising and we've discussed on these pages all the intricacies of the set up at the club - and they are certainly multi-faceted and difficult to deal with one item at a time and in isolation.

Everybody has a point of view and I will view with interest any attempt in the future by a serious historian who tries to make a good fist of dealing with it all.

There are some good lessons to be learned from the debacle but from my perspective, I'm just taking things one week at a time and looking to the future.

[chook fowler 19,444]

Schwab, Prendergast and Neeld - a trifector of incompetence 

Edited March 30, 2017 by chook fowler

[hemingway 7,615]

40 minutes ago, tiers said:

Dean Bailey was intelligent, innovative and interesting coach whose personal qualities were exemplary. I had the pleasure of spending time with him in China in 2010 and he impressed me enormously both as a football person and coach.

One of his comments always comes back to me when I consider our club's progress. He said that (paraphrasing) it will take until the team has played at least 70 games (min 4 years) together as a unit before we can expect success. This was how Geelong and Hawthorn developed in the noughties. That he was right but was denied the chance to fulfill his prophecy was the real tragedy of 186.

We now have TMac, Jetta, Vince, Tyson, Viney, Jones, Watts, Hogan and Gawn who have had up to 2 years and more as a core group. Add the developing group including OMac, Hunt, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Weideman, Neal-Bullen, who have shown the ability and consistency to build on the core group, and we have the foundation for success. Just give it time - as Dean said, 70 games together as a unit.

I suspect the FD knows and understands this principle very well. I will watch with growing expectations.

Good summary tiers, we had a terrible list and I suspect that as a result, the greatest coach in history would have fared badly, including Roos and Goody.

Off the field, there was not only no alignment between the kingmakers but some of those kingmakers were very divisive characters. 

Although in any footy club, the cracks appear when things are going badly on the field. Those same cracks can be covered over if the team is having success. The cracks are still there and are always ready to open up and swallow coaches, players and administrators when defeat becomes the norm. 

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

This 'protest' part has never made sense to me; how could a coach, who was already under pressure to retain his job, survive a 186 point defeat?  It'll all come out one day but it is a very sad chapter in our club's history.

 

I have no issues with this article, these events should be remembered if for no other reason than to remind all of us that the figures at the club are all human beings.

No-one ever said footballers were clever.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Chris

[btdemon 482]

Bailey was an innovative and attacking coach. The game plan did seem susceptible when under attack but i must admit i really enjoyed it when it worked. Think back to the attack which included Liam, Aussie and Robbo. Exciting time. On the other hand, I wonder if 186 against Geelong would have occurred if the club had had the structure and discipline from the board down that it now has. There is no doubt that Bailey didn't have the resources, the support or the stable structure that now exists. I do feel that he was short changed. 

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

I usually choose whose funeral i want to go to, no one else does......

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,486]

19 minutes ago, btdemon said:

Bailey was an innovative and attacking coach. The game plan did seem susceptible when under attack but i must admit i really enjoyed it when it worked. Think back to the attack which included Liam, Aussie and Robbo. Exciting time. On the other hand, I wonder if 186 against Geelong would have occurred if the club had had the structure and discipline from the board down that it now has. There is no doubt that Bailey didn't have the resources, the support or the stable structure that now exists. I do feel that he was short changed. 

Fitness and conditioning were a huge issue with the playing list - which also comes down to how the coach was being supported by the football department.  This, coupled with a huge loss of experienced players, meant that oppositions would get on huge run-ons against us and were were never able to stem the flow.  There was neither the physical condition, nor the cooler, older heads to lead the younger players.

The biggest mistakes of that era was that too many senior players were moved on too quickly and that the senior players that were retained, or the ones we hoped would step up to be the next leaders of the club, were not suitable for the role.  We needed Bruce, Robertson, Yze, Rivers, McLean and Davey to be the next generation of leaders, but Green was the only one to flourish under that pressure.