VFL GRAND FINAL - CASEY SCORPIONS v FOOTSCRAY BULLDOGS

[Dee Dee 1,105]

A couple of observations from my chair in front of the TV on Sunday afternoon.

My first glimpse of Hulett: Impressive looking lad, a sort of tall Tapscott!!!                                                                                          

Rather impressed with J Smith, Son of Shaun, not a great game (and not a bad game) but he seems to have come quite a long way in a short time, could be a find!

Clayton Oliver really is a cut above, and he looks so innocent (such a nice boy he he)!

And just on the MFC VFL side: where would they play their home games? Certainly not at the MCG, Goschs paddock? All open to the public, or where?

[Redleg 40,856]

56 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

that stuff re the shoulder is hilarious.

 

how did they not realise?

Either dumb or stupid, not sure which. 

[Redleg 40,856]

1 hour ago, poita said:

Pathetic performance really, in such a big game. Even when Casey were in front at half time I felt like they were by far the inferior team. The performance suggested to me that half of the team had been told that morning that they wouldn't have contracts for next year. The rest just didn't care.

Oliver was clearly our best, but once again he didn't have the endurance to play four quarters. He needs to spend the next 6 months building his tank.

I have previously been confident of Spencer's ability to play a role at senior level, but he was simply appalling. We badly need an upgrade. Kennedy confirmed my opinion that he has tickets on himself and does not have the work rate to make it. Neal-Bullen again failed to match the step up in quality and won't make it. Newton and Michie were as bad as ever and will both be delisted. Grimes, Trengove and Jones were disappointing for senior players. Terlich okay in parts, and worthy of at least one senior game over the past two years, but won't be around next year. Hulett is miles off. Weideman is okay when his intensity up. Garland is finished, regardless of contract status. Dunn is okay when he can get to the contest, but is so predictable with ball in hand. Smith shows some promise but needs to get to more contests. White won't make it and should be delisted, particularly if we get Hibberd.

Pretty fair summary. 

[Tony Tea 2,806]

Clarko footy bullies Melbourne yet again.

[Akum 2,660]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Wasn't quoting just you mate, just noticed a fair few throwing the term "pathetic" around.

Yeah we did play well through the year, have the best unity between AFL and VFL we've ever had from my memory, had the best team all year, made the grand final, our AFL listed players were Casey's best players, I don't really see what the problem is to be honest. Sits fine with me. Sure a few other teams have standalone VFL sides, the Hawks don't though and they go ok. Not saying it will never happen, but I think for now it's working quite well. I might not have said that last year, but this year has been a successful one IMO.

 

I agree with all this. But there was this great little piece that they showed at half time on Channel 7 about Tim Smith, who I thought almost singlehandedly kept Scorps in the game in 2nd Q. He works FT as a concreter/builder, and after a heavy day at work he's so stuffed that he just battles to get through training. This is in such stark contrast to the AFL listed players who are full-time professionals.

The other issue is players such as Jordan Russell, Jed Adcock & Will Minson (I guess that Dunn & Garland & Grimes are in the same situation for us). They are probably never going to get another AFL game, but in a stand-alone club, they play a valuable role for the club as a whole in helping to support & protect their young players who will be the stars of the future. In an aligned club, even with the alignment functioning much better, Dunn & Garland & Grimes could have a valuable development role to play for the next couple of years, but the Dees need the spots on the list that they occupy.

Yesterday also showed brilliantly how the Dogs have synthesized their game plan, their planning & preparation (which was what killed us - seriously, who prepares to the extent they did for a VFL match??), what they expect of the players who pull on the jumper at whatever level and so on, across both their AFL and their VFL sides. The club "Western Bulldogs" has full responsibility for building both sides, and this seems to be the thing. They actually had a good alignment with Williamstown at one stage, and I was a bit surprised that they let it go, but this has worked out much better for them, especially as they really understand the value of a VFL premiership to the whole club.

The best argument against us being fully stand alone is that Casey locates us in a rapid growth area, and we're a club that actually doesn't have a part of Melbourne metro to call our own like the Bulldogs do. But perhaps the Casey Demons option is the way to go. Let's face it, the original "Springvale Scorpions" is a long way from Casey, so they've already had one major change - I also remember Springvale being a Federal League club when I was growing up in Noble Park. Surely it's more important in VFL to keep the Casey identity than it is to keep the Scorpions identity?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

35 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

Clarko footy bullies Melbourne yet again.

Except for that time Melbourne beat Hawthorn.

 

[Coq au vin 755]

2 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Spencer 4 disposals and 0 marks - 46 dream team points. Disgraceful 

I agree he was terrible but I'm not so sure those stats are right. He seemed to get more of the ball than that. I couldn't bear to watch my recorded game again to check though!!

[stuie 7,374]

7 minutes ago, Akum said:

I agree with all this. But there was this great little piece that they showed at half time on Channel 7 about Tim Smith, who I thought almost singlehandedly kept Scorps in the game in 2nd Q. He works FT as a concreter/builder, and after a heavy day at work he's so stuffed that he just battles to get through training. This is in such stark contrast to the AFL listed players who are full-time professionals.

The other issue is players such as Jordan Russell, Jed Adcock & Will Minson (I guess that Dunn & Garland & Grimes are in the same situation for us). They are probably never going to get another AFL game, but in a stand-alone club, they play a valuable role for the club as a whole in helping to support & protect their young players who will be the stars of the future. In an aligned club, even with the alignment functioning much better, Dunn & Garland & Grimes could have a valuable development role to play for the next couple of years, but the Dees need the spots on the list that they occupy.

Yesterday also showed brilliantly how the Dogs have synthesized their game plan, their planning & preparation (which was what killed us - seriously, who prepares to the extent they did for a VFL match??), what they expect of the players who pull on the jumper at whatever level and so on, across both their AFL and their VFL sides. The club "Western Bulldogs" has full responsibility for building both sides, and this seems to be the thing. They actually had a good alignment with Williamstown at one stage, and I was a bit surprised that they let it go, but this has worked out much better for them, especially as they really understand the value of a VFL premiership to the whole club.

The best argument against us being fully stand alone is that Casey locates us in a rapid growth area, and we're a club that actually doesn't have a part of Melbourne metro to call our own like the Bulldogs do. But perhaps the Casey Demons option is the way to go. Let's face it, the original "Springvale Scorpions" is a long way from Casey, so they've already had one major change - I also remember Springvale being a Federal League club when I was growing up in Noble Park. Surely it's more important in VFL to keep the Casey identity than it is to keep the Scorpions identity?

I'm not sure how Tim Smith's situation would be any different with a stand alone team though? He'd likely be getting paid the same etc and would still need a career after footy, so he'd still be in the same job I'd imagine.

Similar with Dunn, Garland etc, I'm not sure the situation would be much different. The stand alone team would still be full of our AFL players, so the same thing would happen anyway as far as list changes go. I hardly think those guys would sign up as just VFL players so they can stick around at Casey.

This is the first year that Casey and MFC have had a real synergy with actually linking the game plan/style etc and we finished top of the ladder and made the grand final. I'm not too disappointed with 2016 despite the GF loss. Think some are overreacting to it a bit to be honest.

To me, the best argument against it is the cost v reward. Currently it's working really well. Casey has grown their culture along with the Dees and with Plapp linking everything better with MFC it's all working in tandem just as well as it would if it was a stand alone team. I do agree that a name change to the Demons would be great though.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

It wasn't the Casey players who were the problem. It was our list cloggers who let the team down.

Shame there is so much salary cap being wasted. Players like Dunn, Grimes, Trengove and Garland who once were far better players and now should be at their peak as experienced players are now playing halfarsed football at the second level. Trengove has an excuse but if he is getting anywhere it is still painfully slow. Their lethergy has also rubbed off on many of the next group of players coming up and even on regular senior players. Any C grade player would love to come to us just for the big boost in pay.

Edited September 26, 2016 by america de cali

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Shame there is so much salary cap being wasted. Players like Dunn, Grimes, Trengove and Garland who once were far better players and now should be at their peak as experienced players but now playing halfarsed football at the second level. Trengove has an excuse but if he is getting anywhere it is still painfully slow. Their lethergy has also rubbed off on many of the next group of players coming up and even on regular senior players. Any C grade player would love to come to us just for the big boost in pay.

Have you actually watched or been to any other Casey games this year?

The over reaction here is getting to ridiculous levels.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Have you actually watched or been to any other Casey games this year?

The over reaction here is getting to ridiculous levels.

 

The third quarter capitulation says it all. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by america de cali

[Tony Tea 2,806]

27 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Except for that time Melbourne beat Hawthorn.

 

The exception which proves the rule.

[48 Year Now 91]

I wonder if anyone else saw the intense and worried look on Chris Dawes face in the rooms at half time. I would give a penny for his thoughts.

[old55 23,415]

MFC and now Casey have a real problem playing at Etihad.  We have to address this if we are going to challenge.  That game reminded me of the 2 against St.Kilda this year.

[stuie 7,374]

19 minutes ago, america de cali said:

The third quarter capitulation says it all. 

I'll take that as a no then.

 

[chook fowler 19,447]

38 minutes ago, Diamond said:

I agree he was terrible but I'm not so sure those stats are right. He seemed to get more of the ball than that. I couldn't bear to watch my recorded game again to check though!!

I'm sure the 0 marks is right and therein lies the problem with Spence. He couldn't take a mark when one on one with the smallest player on the ground at one stage. He can't get off the ground.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Haven't read the thread, but let me guess - the sky is falling because we lost the game, yeah?  

[chook fowler 19,447]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Haven't read the thread, but let me guess - the sky is falling because we lost the game, yeah?  

No but it was a bloody poor effort

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, chook fowler said:

No but it was a bloody poor effort

Oh well.  We lost the Grand Final, we move on with the list decisions.  Can't believe people have the energy to dissect it in depth after the 23 rounds of the AFL season.  There were zero surprises in that game - the kids go alright, the ones who aren't up to standard showed exactly why that's the case.  End of story.

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

Interesting reading. 

I feel no connection to Casey as such. 

I have tried but it is just not there. 

I think the club should make a more visable connection. Jumpers for sure. 

The connection is not there on the eyes. Very important

[MadAsHell 4,212]

54 minutes ago, stuie said:

I'm not sure how Tim Smith's situation would be any different with a stand alone team though? He'd likely be getting paid the same etc and would still need a career after footy, so he'd still be in the same job I'd imagine.

Similar with Dunn, Garland etc, I'm not sure the situation would be much different. The stand alone team would still be full of our AFL players, so the same thing would happen anyway as far as list changes go. I hardly think those guys would sign up as just VFL players so they can stick around at Casey.

This is the first year that Casey and MFC have had a real synergy with actually linking the game plan/style etc and we finished top of the ladder and made the grand final. I'm not too disappointed with 2016 despite the GF loss. Think some are overreacting to it a bit to be honest.

To me, the best argument against it is the cost v reward. Currently it's working really well. Casey has grown their culture along with the Dees and with Plapp linking everything better with MFC it's all working in tandem just as well as it would if it was a stand alone team. I do agree that a name change to the Demons would be great though.

 

Post of the day Stuie!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

30 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

MFC and now Casey have a real problem playing at Etihad.  We have to address this if we are going to challenge.  That game reminded me of the 2 against St.Kilda this year.

The problem is we have too many players that lack explosive acceleration and quick ball movement skills (by hand and foot) to break clear of congestion.

 

[MadAsHell 4,212]

26 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

MFC and now Casey have a real problem playing at Etihad.  We have to address this if we are going to challenge.  That game reminded me of the 2 against St.Kilda this year.

Your not wrong Fifty-5 and I think our recruiting just recently is starting to address this, however it may not be till about 2018 before it starts to bear fruit.

I think in general we're far to one paced, so players such as Hunt, Stretch, Melksham, Lumumba, Garlett (players capable of breaking the lines) are a must.  We also need more mids who have that ability to break away from stoppages.

Again the likes of Petracca & Harmes are players that should be automatic locks to play at Etihad, even if that means resting a Tyson or Brayshaw etc.

Like the Australian Cricket team in Asia, the Melbourne FC need to start to take a horses for courses approach when it comes to Etihad.

The addition of Hibberd will help as well as Salem with their accurate kicking and strong runnning.  I'm also hoping there's a stronger concentration on outside run at this years draft as compared to our inside mids where we're reasonably well placed.

[chook fowler 19,447]

6 minutes ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Your not wrong Fifty-5 and I think our recruiting just recently is starting to address this, however it may not be till about 2018 before it starts to bear fruit.

I think in general we're far to one paced, so players such as Hunt, Stretch, Melksham, Lumumba, Garlett (players capable of breaking the lines) are a must.  We also need more mids who have that ability to break away from stoppages.

Again the likes of Petracca & Harmes are players that should be automatic locks to play at Etihad, even if that means resting a Tyson or Brayshaw etc.

Like the Australian Cricket team in Asia, the Melbourne FC need to start to take a horses for courses approach when it comes to Etihad.

The addition of Hibberd will help as well as Salem with their accurate kicking and strong runnning.  I'm also hoping there's a stronger concentration on outside run at this years draft as compared to our inside mids where we're reasonably well placed.

Kent could be added to that list

[mo64 5,853]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

To me, the best argument against it is the cost v reward. Currently it's working really well. Casey has grown their culture along with the Dees and with Plapp linking everything better with MFC it's all working in tandem just as well as it would if it was a stand alone team. I do agree that a name change to the Demons would be great though.

 

How have Casey grown their culture? Casey only had 6 players in the GF team. That makes it hard for them to attract quality players and talk about club culture.

The only difference between this year and past is that Melbourne had a good run with injuries which improved Casey's home and away performances, and we allowed qualified players to play finals.