CHF

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Howdy all.

I thought I'd start a discussion on the above position. I don't believe we haven't had anyone capable of playing this position all year, and it has probably cost us a few games.

Currently we have on our list - 5 key backman (in no particular order) - Dunn, Garland, Frost, & The Macs. Now compare this to our Forwards - Hogan, Pederson, Dawes, Watts, Weed & Hulett

Out of all of those keys listed only really 1 or 2 are ready to play this position now (Dawes & Pederson). Wattsy is too small and a better 3rd Tall who floats and Hogan is our FF (we are not going to rob Peter to pay Paul here).

We know the Frost experiment has failed at first attempt.

Dawes we know can play this position but has also failed

The Mac boys are possibilities but really we are clutching at straws there (Depending on matchups I wouldn't mind T Mac playing CHF from time to time, surely he can't be much worse then Dawes & Pedo)

Weeds and Hutett I have not seen live but the reports are promising - but let's be realistic these two boys need development and probably won't be ready for another preseason or 2

I believe it's our coaching groups biggest challenge at the moment. Assume we lose no key personnel over the offseason its our No.1 priority IMO to get this position right for 2017.

Can anyone else see any short term solutions, I can't.

 

 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Sorry guys i csnt seem to edit

My point is do we look at guys like Vickory as a short term solution?

Also i know we are keen on Hurley who is better know as a AA back not a chf

It's probably the most interesting position on out list atm

[stuie 7,374]

Guessing obviously, but my expectation is Hulett will get a few games by end of the season, the only thing holding him back is lack of conditioning due to an interrupted 2015. This will also hopefully mean that next year after a full preseason and improved fitness base we should see him fairly often (form depending).

The Weed I would guess would start to crack a game early-mid next year, and out of the 3 young key forwards he's the one I see as being the forward/ruck option. Don't forget there's also Mitch King who may well come along at some stage after recovering. Max King I think is gone.

You're right though, a middle-mature age key forward would be handy, but it's a little down the list for mine after a key mature backman, rebounding mature backman and possibly a draft/rookie ruckman (if Max King is cut).

 

[GCDee 3,199]

I think Hogan is more suited to the CHF posistion than playing deep forward so I don't beleive the problem lies with our CHF I think more with FF.

I havent seen weed play but is he suited as a stay at home forward? 

Even if we want to develop weed for a further year or two maybe we look at a cheap option of Jay Schultz to fill a void for a year or so... I believe there was talk of him being potentially on the move.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

10 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Out of all of those keys listed only really 1 or 2 are ready to play this position now (Dawes & Pederson). Wattsy is too small and a better 3rd Tall who floats and Hogan is our FF (we are not going to rob Peter to pay Paul here).

Hogan is a CHF not a FF. Every time he plays up the ground he plays better. What we lack is a FF. Hogan has to play FF because nobody else can. We essentially are already robbing Paul to pay Peter  . Hopefully Hulett or Wiederman will develop into solid FFs but not likely to help this year or all that much next year. Pedo is our best option but due to injury/illness he cant get in the side. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by ArtificialWisdom

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, GCDee said:

I think Hogan is more suited to the CHF posistion than playing deep forward so I don't beleive the problem lies with our CHF I think more with FF.

I havent seen weed play but is he suited as a stay at home forward? 

Even if we want to develop weed for a further year or two maybe we look at a cheap option of Jay Schultz to fill a void for a year or so... I believe there was talk of him being potentially on the move.

I agree about Hogan, certainly has the mobility and does roam a fair bit anyway. The problem I see at this stage though is his pressure is not very good and he's not a huge kick, things he can work on obviously, but until he does I feel like he might be better at FF and roaming sometimes.

 

[GCDee 3,199]

Just now, stuie said:

I agree about Hogan, certainly has the mobility and does roam a fair bit anyway. The problem I see at this stage though is his pressure is not very good and he's not a huge kick, things he can work on obviously, but until he does I feel like he might be better at FF and roaming sometimes.

 

I agree his kicking distance isnt up to scratch with what a true CHF should be but I think even this year his kicking distances has dramatically improved. He flushed a few from on or around the 50 m arc on the weekend. I'm sure in 2 or 3 years when his body is fully matured he will be kicking much more convincing distances.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, GCDee said:

I agree his kicking distance isnt up to scratch with what a true CHF should be but I think even this year his kicking distances has dramatically improved. He flushed a few from on or around the 50 m arc on the weekend. I'm sure in 2 or 3 years when his body is fully matured he will be kicking much more convincing distances.

Totally agree, that's why i was just talking "at this stage". I've only seen him play live once, but Hulett has a decent boot from what I saw. (Could have just been the Casey wind though)

 

[armstrong35 262]

They don't set the world on fire but Josh Bruce or Tim Membrey would add to our forward line. They're not always consistent but when on song their marking and kicking ability is fantastic. 

[Grapeviney 9,881]

1 hour ago, Unleash Hell said:

do we look at guys like Vickory as a short term solution?

I think most of us look at Vickery and cringe. 

Can't believe his name keeps popping up...

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,241]

The MFC hasn't had a true CHF since The Ox in '94

G. Lyon was pretty good but a better Flanker. 

The Earl of Spalding would have been sensational if he could have kicked straight. 

Cost us 2 Flags the CHF position i think

Edited July 8, 2016 by Sir Why You Little

[In Harmes Way 7,826]

Whilst we're waiting for Weidemann and Hulett to come good, I'd like to see them give Dunn a go at CHF, last chance saloon. He's a good kick, mark, is the right weight, has good defensive pressure and doesn't need to worry about the zone defence he can't seem to acclimatise to. What's the harm in trying him out for the next 3-4 weeks?

[pitchfork 181]

If Jesse was not such a bad**s everyone would recognise him as a CHF. 

Plays the position in the Carey mould, good with space in front and behind him (on that note, anyone notice the Pagan's paddock employed in the first half vs Crows?).

 

[old55 23,801]

The 18 positions just don't exist anymore.  CHF is an extinct dinosaur.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

14 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

The 18 positions just don't exist anymore.  CHF is an extinct dinosaur.

Slightly exaggerating the truth there.

Most* great teams and premiership winning teams have two key pillars playing in the FF/CHF positions.

The 'pure' CHF tag and role from yesteryear may have changed, but there's many reasons for that.

Teams like the dogs and the current Hawthorn team are anomalous to this rule simply because their back-half and midfields are so incredibly skillfull and strong. Their efficiency going inside 50 helps in that regard. They don't need to rely on big contested marking players forwards to win one-on-one contests like us.

We suffer from having a weak and under-skilled backline and an under-skilled and one-dimensional midfield . Which is why our entries going forward can be so wayward and why we see opposition teams run it straight out.

Roos has built our team similarly to that of Sydney and our game style due to this requires two big contested marking forwards. We can only hope that Weed and Hulett come on as quickly as possible so that Hogan can move to the CHF position which is the position best suited for his attributes. 

 

[mauriesy 7,378]

I'd much rather Pedersen, Dawes or Dunn than Vickery.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

1 minute ago, mauriesy said:

I'd much rather Pedersen, Dawes or Dunn than Vickery.

Frankly I'd reather Kent/Garlett at CHF than Vickery 

[Fat Tony 5,291]

We are averaging 96.5 points per game this season. Our forward line is not a problem IMO.

[Fat Tony 5,291]

We are averaging 96.5 points per game this season. Our forward line is not a problem IMO.

[old55 23,801]

38 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Slightly exaggerating the truth there.

Most* great teams and premiership winning teams have two key pillars playing in the FF/CHF positions.

The 'pure' CHF tag and role from yesteryear may have changed, but there's many reasons for that.

Teams like the dogs and the current Hawthorn team are anomalous to this rule simply because their back-half and midfields are so incredibly skillfull and strong. Their efficiency going inside 50 helps in that regard. They don't need to rely on big contested marking players forwards to win one-on-one contests like us.

We suffer from having a weak and under-skilled backline and an under-skilled and one-dimensional midfield . Which is why our entries going forward can be so wayward and why we see opposition teams run it straight out.

Roos has built our team similarly to that of Sydney and our game style due to this requires two big contested marking forwards. We can only hope that Weed and Hulett come on as quickly as possible so that Hogan can move to the CHF position which is the position best suited for his attributes. 

 

If, according to the OP, Hogan is "our FF" how come he's taking marks up on the wing?  The whole concept of CHF/CHB FF/FB is defunct.  There may be 1, 2 or 3 tall marking players in the forward 50 at the centre bounce but the idea that one of then is "CHF" is an outdated concept, they all move around up and down the ground.  Hogan takes marks in the defensive 50 on occasion.  I agree we need another consistent tall contested marking option to Hogan who at times can play deep to free Hogan up the field, but also at times I love to see Hogan deep.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Fifty-5

[Ricky P 757]

I wouldn't worry about bringing someone in. Just let one of the old battle axes (Dawes or Pedersen) hang on until the kids come on.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Watts at CHF - rotating with Hogan (if needed). Or, Gawn at CHF, or FF, rotating with Hogan, or Lobb/Wright/Vardy.

If we can manage to get Wright, Lobb or Vardy, we then have options down back and up forward. Gawn is an absolute beast down back, and capable up forward.

[John Demonic 5,870]

We need Majak Jordan to do Nic Nat leaps 20m in front of the goal and tap the ball mid-air to Garlett and Kennedy

Edited July 8, 2016 by johndemons

[picket fence 17,742]

I would play T Mac at CHF as I suggested a few days ago! I would like to see if he can cut it as a key Forward! Try him at CHF, God knows he is not a KPB s toenail!!

[rjay 25,202]

6 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Howdy all.

I thought I'd start a discussion on the above position. I don't believe we haven't had anyone capable of playing this position all year, and it has probably cost us a few games.

Currently we have on our list - 5 key backman (in no particular order) - Dunn, Garland, Frost, & The Macs. Now compare this to our Forwards - Hogan, Pederson, Dawes, Watts, Weed & Hulett

Out of all of those keys listed only really 1 or 2 are ready to play this position now (Dawes & Pederson). Wattsy is too small and a better 3rd Tall who floats and Hogan is our FF (we are not going to rob Peter to pay Paul here).

We know the Frost experiment has failed at first attempt.

Dawes we know can play this position but has also failed

The Mac boys are possibilities but really we are clutching at straws there (Depending on matchups I wouldn't mind T Mac playing CHF from time to time, surely he can't be much worse then Dawes & Pedo)

Weeds and Hutett I have not seen live but the reports are promising - but let's be realistic these two boys need development and probably won't be ready for another preseason or 2

I believe it's our coaching groups biggest challenge at the moment. Assume we lose no key personnel over the offseason its our No.1 priority IMO to get this position right for 2017.

Can anyone else see any short term solutions, I can't.

 

 

Name Hawthorns CHF and then start again.

Our FD's biggest challenge is to put together an AFL back 6 use the ball well and turn defence into attack.

edit: anyone suggesting Vickery as a stop gap doesn't understand why Richmond are where they are...

Edited July 8, 2016 by rjay