Changes vs Freo

[Biffen 12,946]

8 minutes ago, old dee said:

Sorry to disagree dd but I thought he was average at best and IMO poor.

He is too small and holds onto the ball for  too long.

He seems to run around with the ball for so long that he loses where his team mates are and inevitably  gets caught with the ball.

I do not see him making it.

 

I strongly disagree with you on Stretch.I thought he was very influential. I also think he will have a big career.

[old dee 23,871]

Just now, Biffen said:

I strongly disagree with you on Stretch.I thought he was very influential. I also think he will have a big career.

Then like AW we are going to disagree Biff.

Amount other things he is too small. Like Kennedy he will have the occasion day out but when it get tough they are too small.

Yesterday we had too many small players and too many poor large players.

We are still 5 class players short of being a top six  side.

[demons007 1]

Frost and O McDonald are not up to it. We simply cannot compete down back with those 2 in the back 6. Its an absolute train wreck. Not up to AFL level at the moment and not fair on them to keep picking them. They are terrified of making errors every time they are near the ball.

[rjay 25,086]

28 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Sorry, but if you saw yesterday's game live, you'd realise that the absolute last thing we need is even fewer targets in the forward line to kick to.

Now, we might need better, but we don't need fewer.

We have Kennedy, Harmes, Kent, van den Berg and Garlett running around crumbing in the forward line. Trengove doesn't add a thing to that mix.

I think we have one too few at the moment...I'm talking about changing the plan, lowering the eyes a bit and bringing in another target.

Hogan is being killed with opposition players dropping back onto him. Create some run and movement and use it.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

18 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Walker and Jenkins combined for 4 or 5 grappling, 1 on 1 marks which turned into goals yesterday. Freo don't have any forwards who will be doing that. They will persist with O.Mac and Frost. 

No way we go to Darwin unchanged

IN: Hulett, Grimes

OUT: Dawes, Kent (please)

After that game? I thought he was pretty good. I would have said BenKen was more vaulnerable of the small forwards and even he was servicable. Bugg had a down day but his efforts over the year are probably enough to have kept him in. Vanders was ok i think his stats flater him a bit but he will probably go again. We only had 1 'bad' player and we all want him out but roosy and dawesy seem to be best buds so as much as I want him out I dont see it happening

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I strongly disagree with you on Stretch.I thought he was very influential. I also think he will have a big career.

Yep.

Stretch will quickly become one of our most important players and will end up being a player who will launch many of  our attacks.

As far as agility goes only Garlett comes close.  He changes direction very quickly and will get more slippery and harder to tackle with more experience.

He also hits targets and has a high footy iq.

Any decent judge can see that he is tracking beautifully and barring injury will have a very good career.

 

[Undeeterred 3,124]

36 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think we have one too few at the moment...I'm talking about changing the plan, lowering the eyes a bit and bringing in another target.

Hogan is being killed with opposition players dropping back onto him. Create some run and movement and use it.

Think we're in agreement about the problem, just not the solution

[Deespicable 2,886]

Always interesting to see people's personal attacks on players - especially the ones made by people who clearly weren't at the game.

This week the selectors were worried about the pace of Adelaide's run from defence and in transition and made a priority of picking a quick side. But even despite that we struggled to stop them on the break and the clever short kicks from guys like Tom Lynch rally cut us up. By contrast I can barely remember a Melbourne forward taking a mark on the lead - partly because they have got into the habit of wanting it over the top and partly because Talia was so influential on Dawes and the rest of their defence led by Laird, Smith and Cheney were so disciplined and quick enough to snuff out lead options. Hartigan was the only one who panicked in one-on-one contests (eg; freekick goals to Watts and Hoges).

The good news is that Freo aren't known for their speedy transition and hence picking our fastest side isn't as imperative.

But the hardest part for our selectors is deciding what to do with Dawes and our key up the ground forward post. There are many options that have been floated here. Both Hulett and the Weed appear a little underdone for AFL just yet and to be honest that haven't set the world on fire in the games I have watched at VFL level. To be honest i would hope that we wait until our Round 19 game against Gold Coast to give one of them a debut to help their progress, even if it doesn't help the team that day.

Some still are calling for Pedo, who is a brave workman, but we all know he is just a tad slow in the long run, although against some teams he might pose problems. Then some would argue playing a second ruckman (eg: Spencil) will allow Gawny to spend more time up forward and allow Hoges to play more as the upfield down the line marking threat that Dawes has been unable to provide. I actually favour this when we are up against a really strong ruck combination, but I'm sorry but Clarke and Hannath don't represent that sort of threat and Darwin's dewiness means that a second ruck is a luxury we can't afford this week.

As a result my preferred option this week is to send T-mac forward as he did so well pinch-hitting last year and to bring in Garland as our third defensive tall. If Pavlich or Taberner are too strong for Frost or O-mac then at least Roosy can swap the McDonald's and still have the forward mobility that we need. 

I had three other players in the gun after Adelaide and all could be left out and not require a change of structure. 

Matt Jones came in to provide pace and pressure - he enjoyed a good first half but went back into his shell in the second and his zero tackle count tells more about his psyche. Compare that to little Kennedy or Billy who both threw themselves and tackled and pressured like maniacs. Mediocre Matt won't be missed and given Freo's slow build-ups, we can finally give his wing to Grimes and it will not have any impact on our run, indeed unlucky Jack will keep running all day (albeit not with blistering pace) and I guarantee he will lay tackles. The other fact is that Roosy clearly is now across that everyone thinks he has been cruel to Grimesy all year and will want to play him just to prove his point that he is no longer good enough. But Grimesy is resilient and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up playing well just to spite him.

The two others in the gun this week are Bugg and Petracca. Both could't cope with the pace and ferocity of the attack on the ball and the player by the Crows. Bugg has been handy this year, but needs a couple of weeks of dominating the VFL again, just to bring back that passion that he had at the start of the season to lay tackles. His spot will allow Brayshaw to return - I can't imagine we will let him sit and wait for two more weeks.

As to Petracca, apart from the Pies game, he really hasn't dominated like we all hoped. He really struggled to find space yesterday and you wonder if he deserves a week off and more tuition on his running patterns from the coaches box. To me that leaves room for either Michie, Trenners or Oliver to return and given the likely greasy conditions, I'd actually go Viv because his kicking skills are more pure and his return down back will allow Bernie to be used in our midfield set up again.

One final thing, to those of you who are wanting VB dropped, go back and look at the impact he had when he wasn't actually in the middle. The first few minutes of every quarter when he was on the pine (especially the third), we were spanked in the clearances and he was the missing link. We still need his aggression, just as we need it from Bernie, because we are a young side and our star player - Jack Viney - is now getting tagged and is still a little proppy - hence we aren't charging out of the middle as easily as we were in the first few rounds anymore.

Out: Dawes, M.Jones, Bugg, Petracca

In: Garland, Grimes, Brayshaw, Michie

B: Jetta (Walters) Frost (Pavlich) O.Mac (Hannath/Taberner)

HB: Vince/Harmes (Ballantyne/Mayne) Garland (Taberner/Mayne) Hunt (Weller/Blakely)

C: Grimes Viney (head-to-head with Neale) Stretch

HF: Kent T-Mac Kennedy

F: Garlett Hoges Watts

Ru: Gawn Tyson Jones (if tagged by Barlow, sent back to Ballantyne)

Int: Harmes, Brayshaw, Michie, VB

 

   

[3Dee 1,153]

^ Petracca needs time in the 1s.. his accurate & penetrating kicks into 50 are unrivalled.

[monoccular 17,573]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

In the next 3 weeks we have trips to NT and WA both after 6 day breaks so need to pick 'fresh' players (which we didn't do for the Alice game under similar circumstances). 

In: Wagner (if fit will be fresh), Trengove (who didn't play yesterday should be fresh), Brayshaw, Oliver (statistics aside, the only 2 that looked sharp at Casey yesterday).

Out: Vand (still looks troubled by injury), Dawes (must go), and 2 of Harmes/Kennedy/Kent.  Unfortunately, it may be M Jones who makes way.

Proviso:  Casey have another bye next week which may affect selections as to who needs continuity eg we may see Lumumba in to get match fitness (yes I know it should happen at Casey but circumstances may not always allow that.  Not saying H will get selected, just saying the Casey bye may affect selections).

Could any live witnesses observe - how did H go and how did Spencer really go?  

If H gets back in on minimal performance then I am through with Roos   What set us back under Neeld and Bailey, and even in ND's last period was playing favorites rather than rewarding form (from players appropriate to needs)

I like the idea of playing Spencer, if his form warrants, to give Max a proper relief  

3 hours ago, poita said:

Should be: In: Grimes, Brayshaw, Spencer, Trengove Out: Vandenberg, Dawes, Kent, Petracca

Will be: No change, unless Roos finds a way to sneak his best mate Lumumba into the team.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by monoccular

[rjay 25,086]

56 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Think we're in agreement about the problem, just not the solution

Yes, but what's your solution?

The only thing you seem to be saying is keep the status quo, so we still have the problem.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

1 hour ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

After that game? I thought he was pretty good. I would have said BenKen was more vaulnerable of the small forwards and even he was servicable. Bugg had a down day but his efforts over the year are probably enough to have kept him in. Vanders was ok i think his stats flater him a bit but he will probably go again. We only had 1 'bad' player and we all want him out but roosy and dawesy seem to be best buds so as much as I want him out I dont see it happening

If Dawes doesn't get dropped, that goes against Roos' philosophy all year. It doesn't matter who you are, if you under perform, your out.

Kent wil probably stay as he had some nice burts out of the centre square, but efforts like the kick to Hogan when he was 1 on 1 in the goal square, and when he was in front, dropped the mark, lost his feet, created the outnumber for Adelaide and gave them a coast to coast goal

[DemonLad5 1,642]

39 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Always interesting to see people's personal attacks on players - especially the ones made by people who clearly weren't at the game.

This week the selectors were worried about the pace of Adelaide's run from defence and in transition and made a priority of picking a quick side. But even despite that we struggled to stop them on the break and the clever short kicks from guys like Tom Lynch rally cut us up. By contrast I can barely remember a Melbourne forward taking a mark on the lead - partly because they have got into the habit of wanting it over the top and partly because Talia was so influential on Dawes and the rest of their defence led by Laird, Smith and Cheney were so disciplined and quick enough to snuff out lead options. Hartigan was the only one who panicked in one-on-one contests (eg; freekick goals to Watts and Hoges).

The good news is that Freo aren't known for their speedy transition and hence picking our fastest side isn't as imperative.

But the hardest part for our selectors is deciding what to do with Dawes and our key up the ground forward post. There are many options that have been floated here. Both Hulett and the Weed appear a little underdone for AFL just yet and to be honest that haven't set the world on fire in the games I have watched at VFL level. To be honest i would hope that we wait until our Round 19 game against Gold Coast to give one of them a debut to help their progress, even if it doesn't help the team that day.

Some still are calling for Pedo, who is a brave workman, but we all know he is just a tad slow in the long run, although against some teams he might pose problems. Then some would argue playing a second ruckman (eg: Spencil) will allow Gawny to spend more time up forward and allow Hoges to play more as the upfield down the line marking threat that Dawes has been unable to provide. I actually favour this when we are up against a really strong ruck combination, but I'm sorry but Clarke and Hannath don't represent that sort of threat and Darwin's dewiness means that a second ruck is a luxury we can't afford this week.

As a result my preferred option this week is to send T-mac forward as he did so well pinch-hitting last year and to bring in Garland as our third defensive tall. If Pavlich or Taberner are too strong for Frost or O-mac then at least Roosy can swap the McDonald's and still have the forward mobility that we need. 

I had three other players in the gun after Adelaide and all could be left out and not require a change of structure. 

Matt Jones came in to provide pace and pressure - he enjoyed a good first half but went back into his shell in the second and his zero tackle count tells more about his psyche. Compare that to little Kennedy or Billy who both threw themselves and tackled and pressured like maniacs. Mediocre Matt won't be missed and given Freo's slow build-ups, we can finally give his wing to Grimes and it will not have any impact on our run, indeed unlucky Jack will keep running all day (albeit not with blistering pace) and I guarantee he will lay tackles. The other fact is that Roosy clearly is now across that everyone thinks he has been cruel to Grimesy all year and will want to play him just to prove his point that he is no longer good enough. But Grimesy is resilient and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up playing well just to spite him.

The two others in the gun this week are Bugg and Petracca. Both could't cope with the pace and ferocity of the attack on the ball and the player by the Crows. Bugg has been handy this year, but needs a couple of weeks of dominating the VFL again, just to bring back that passion that he had at the start of the season to lay tackles. His spot will allow Brayshaw to return - I can't imagine we will let him sit and wait for two more weeks.

As to Petracca, apart from the Pies game, he really hasn't dominated like we all hoped. He really struggled to find space yesterday and you wonder if he deserves a week off and more tuition on his running patterns from the coaches box. To me that leaves room for either Michie, Trenners or Oliver to return and given the likely greasy conditions, I'd actually go Viv because his kicking skills are more pure and his return down back will allow Bernie to be used in our midfield set up again.

One final thing, to those of you who are wanting VB dropped, go back and look at the impact he had when he wasn't actually in the middle. The first few minutes of every quarter when he was on the pine (especially the third), we were spanked in the clearances and he was the missing link. We still need his aggression, just as we need it from Bernie, because we are a young side and our star player - Jack Viney - is now getting tagged and is still a little proppy - hence we aren't charging out of the middle as easily as we were in the first few rounds anymore.

Out: Dawes, M.Jones, Bugg, Petracca

In: Garland, Grimes, Brayshaw, Michie

B: Jetta (Walters) Frost (Pavlich) O.Mac (Hannath/Taberner)

HB: Vince/Harmes (Ballantyne/Mayne) Garland (Taberner/Mayne) Hunt (Weller/Blakely)

C: Grimes Viney (head-to-head with Neale) Stretch

HF: Kent T-Mac Kennedy

F: Garlett Hoges Watts

Ru: Gawn Tyson Jones (if tagged by Barlow, sent back to Ballantyne)

Int: Harmes, Brayshaw, Michie, VB

 

   

Oh dear. A bloke who's played 9 games isn't dominating. He's probably gone at years end. Trade bait or delist if no takers

[old dee 23,871]

1 hour ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Yep.

Stretch will quickly become one of our most important players and will end up being a player who will launch many of  our attacks.

As far as agility goes only Garlett comes close.  He changes direction very quickly and will get more slippery and harder to tackle with more experience.

He also hits targets and has a high footy iq.

Any decent judge can see that he is tracking beautifully and barring injury will have a very good career.

 

SJ that is a "do you still beat you wife? " comment.

 

 

[Undeeterred 3,124]

58 minutes ago, rjay said:

Yes, but what's your solution?

The only thing you seem to be saying is keep the status quo, so we still have the problem.

Recognise that (1) there is no easy solution, (2) Dawes had one fairly average game, is often at least serviceable and does what we need him to do (3) we will just need to suck it up and wait for his replacements to come through and (4) Trengove ain't the answer.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, demons007 said:

Frost innd O McDonald are notinup to it. We simply cannot compete down back with those 2 in the back 6. Its an absolute train wreck. Not up to AFL level at the moment and not fair on them to keep picking them. They are terrified of making errors every time they are near the ball.

You cant afford to be one man down In defence (or anywhere really) In today's game. Frost would have to be the luckiest bloke In the AFL atm on recent efforts.

If they pick him again this week I will run naked around Goschs with a pair of  red socks on In protest!

 

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

There's no right answer with the tall forwards. Hasn't been all season. So in the slippery Darwin conditions why play any of them?

Time for Michie to have a run in the midfield. He's been the best clearance player all season at Casey. He'd still know a bit about Freo players from his time there and he's usually good with a slippery pill.

Petracca to spend more time closer to goal. Vanders to play at half forward. 

Out: Dawes
In: Michie

Dawes, Hulett and Pedersen (if fit) can all play at Casey and compete to come back in next week.

 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Dawes.....whack! whack! whack!

Wattsy! Everyone's fave! The worm has turned, my friends....

Dawes had a bad day.

Move on.

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, DemonLad5 said:

If Dawes doesn't get dropped, that goes against Roos' philosophy all year. It doesn't matter who you are, if you under perform, your out.

 

Except he's already backed off from that philosophy this year and I've heard from a few people who have attended President's lunches and the like that they are all about getting games into the kids and the "future" this year. Hopefully the culture is now strong enough to cope with that because it goes completely against everything we've built.

 

[Young Blood 2,634]

6 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

You cant afford to be one man down In defence (or anywhere really) In today's game. Frost would have to be the luckiest bloke In the AFL atm on recent efforts.

If they pick him again this week I will run naked around Goschs with a pair of  red socks on In protest!

 

I thought Frost played one of his best games in the red and blue. Did he get caught trying to break the lines a few times? yes. Did he make mistakes by hand that a lot of players did yesterday? yes.

But I think Frost, Jetta and Hunt all used their pace to attack from the backline and I think Roos would be really pleased. I thought he competed much better in the air than he has in the past. I thought Frost took the game on and was one that kept us in the game.

[old dee 23,871]

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Dawes.....whack! whack! whack!

Wattsy! Everyone's fave! The worm has turned, my friends....

Dawes had a bad day.

Move on.

If it was one bad day then there would be no comment jr.

The problem is that Dawes occasionally  has a good day and the rest are crap.

[stuie 7,374]

9 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

You cant afford to be one man down In defence (or anywhere really) In today's game. Frost would have to be the luckiest bloke In the AFL atm on recent efforts.

If they pick him again this week I will run naked around Goschs with a pair of  red socks on In protest!

 

Played a good game and looked to have bought in to the game plan really well.

Hope it's not too cold when you go for your run...

 

[Young Blood 2,634]

 

I definitely think Dawes has had enough games to put together consistant performances and it just isn't happening. I thought his positioning was terrible yesterday. Lead into congested, out numbered areas and second efforts were just not there.

Pederson if fit is much more dynamic and I hope he comes back in soon. 

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by mongrel

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

Except he's already backed off from that philosophy this year and I've heard from a few people who have attended President's lunches and the like that they are all about getting games into the kids and the "future" this year. Hopefully the culture is now strong enough to cope with that because it goes completely against everything we've built.

 

Roos has been playing the kids since his very first game at Melbourne - JKH. 

He's been faced with the reality that so many of the senior players he inherited just haven't been up to it.

And already this year we've seen guys who were regulars in previous years in Garland and Dunn make way, just as Grimes did last year. 

Dawes might be next. I'd go without him this week, but probably have him favourite to be back in against the Saints. From then on it's 6 weeks left and if he's not performing it's the right time of the year to trial Weeds and Hulett. The only other consideration is probably Casey finals and working out who qualifies and who we'd like to have down there.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

7 minutes ago, old dee said:

If it was one bad day then there would be no comment jr.

The problem is that Dawes occasionally  has a good day and the rest are crap.

Thought you'd chime in, od.

Still needed to protect Hogan and Watts.

He had a bad day....that's all.