WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT JACK

[Moonshadow 17,577]

Unfortunately cannot see a future for him at the Dees. However I would be thrilled to be wrong. 

[beelzebub 23,253]

37 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Unfortunately cannot see a future for him at the Dees. However I would be thrilled to be wrong. 

Other Jack got 2 games .... be surprised if this one doesnt get that. Yeah I know...no 100 there  ( as such ) but how have we all forgotten how good he was.

Hes doing all the right things in the magoos..............

[Adam The God 29,672]

2 hours ago, Chook said:

JT does everything JKH can do but better and with more leadership. He should get a go based solely on that.

This is actually a really good idea, mate. This is the last chance I reckon. He and JKH have about the same speed, except Jack is a good decision maker and clean with his ball use.

Would like to see him get a chance in the next few weeks and leave him in for 3 weeks.

[beelzebub 23,253]

3 hours ago, Chook said:

JT does everything JKH can do but better and with more leadership. He should get a go based solely on that.

Mentioned something similar on another thread. Totally agree. Would bring an interesting element to the position.

[The heart beats true 17,914]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

 but how have we all forgotten how good he was.

Sadly right after he showed us how good he was he had 2 solid years of being painfully slow and ineffective. He was clearly injured and trying to play through, but in the end it damaged his body, and his reputation.

I feel for the guy, but I just don't see what role he plays in the senior side. 

[Moonshadow 17,577]

JKH is much quicker than JT. His skills atm are poorer and decision making not great. I felt sorry for Trenners when he played last year and couldn't keep up with the game. Only a few mids like Sam Mitchell can get away without foot speed because his skills and decision making are so quick and sublime. I don't see that with Trenners, as much as I'd like it to be.

[McQueen 17,864]

Plapp says Trenners is doing everything right, everything the coaches ask of him.

Goodwin says Trenners is working on 'things' and he's close to selection.

The bloke has it on a string every bloody weekend.

FIIK. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by McQueen

[beelzebub 23,253]

13 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

JKH is much quicker than JT. His skills atm are poorer and decision making not great. I felt sorry for Trenners when he played last year and couldn't keep up with the game. Only a few mids like Sam Mitchell can get away without foot speed because his skills and decision making are so quick and sublime. I don't see that with Trenners, as much as I'd like it to be.

If say Trenners played the role JKH can't , then it's not necessarily about speed and more about footy nouse..

Harris though following instructions, no doubt, seems uneasy and inept when doing anything other than first instinct. This seems to have drained any dynamic from his game.

Jack, though not as fleet of foot has better awareness and ability to find space. A far better mark and quite ok with the sticks to about 40m.

Jacks first thought ( like Kents ) is to attack and take the game on. Jack better than Dean has inbuilt defensive game.

Not sure if he'd get a run there but reckon he'd be a bit of a revelation.

Jack knows where to be. 

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

I'm not sure Trengove has the speed to play as a high half forward, yes offensively he's a very smart player, decent overhead mark and good ball user but defensively I can't see him being fast enough to apply any real defensive pressure and his opponent may well expose his speed and be able to run past to easily. 

Jack in my opinion is an inside mid and while I consider him AFL standard in that role he is competing with a long list of very good players. 

I suspect brayshaw is struggling with the same pressure of having to beat out someone like jones, Viney or Oliver or play a position he's less comfortable with. 

[Maldonboy38 6,387]

We are looking for another medium forward who can take a mark, tackle, and defend a space. Doesn't JT fit that bill perfectly? And apart from the year of his leg issues when he could not kick over a jam tin, he is a VERY good kick for goal. He is not quick, but I remain unconvinced he is slow. 

[beelzebub 23,253]

15 minutes ago, Abe said:

I'm not sure Trengove has the speed to play as a high half forward, yes offensively he's a very smart player, decent overhead mark and good ball user but defensively I can't see him being fast enough to apply any real defensive pressure and his opponent may well expose his speed and be able to run past to easily. 

Jack in my opinion is an inside mid and while I consider him AFL standard in that role he is competing with a long list of very good players. 

I suspect brayshaw is struggling with the same pressure of having to beat out someone like jones, Viney or Oliver or play a position he's less comfortable with. 

Jack says Hi 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv7ZH-NKuIs

 

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Jack says Hi 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv7ZH-NKuIs

 

Not sure he'd be able to stop danger if he were running bb 

[old55 23,047]

Trengove is behind Tyson for selection, that's the role he could be most effective in.  He lacks the speed and/or agility for HF/HB.

If Jones, Viney or Oliver get injured then it's hard to go with Tyson, Lewis and Trengove in the same team.

[beelzebub 23,253]

3 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Trengove is behind Tyson for selection, that's the role he could be most effective in.  He lacks the speed and/or agility for HF/HB.

If Jones, Viney or Oliver get injured then it's hard to go with Tyson, Lewis and Trengove in the same team.

Some here, myself included, think he'd do the FP some justice .

[old55 23,047]

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Some here, myself included, think he'd do the FP some justice .

I'm not really sure what FP is these days?  Garlett is the small who regularly plays deep.  Petracca, Hannan and VDB (if he was fit) play medium-tall forwards but all are much more dynamic than Jack - I'd be surprised to see him in place of any of them.  Then there's defensive small fwd like ANB or JKH - I guess that role is possible but they want Kent in there doing the defensive things AND providing offensive danger.

[beelzebub 23,253]

44 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'm not really sure what FP is these days?  Garlett is the small who regularly plays deep.  Petracca, Hannan and VDB (if he was fit) play medium-tall forwards but all are much more dynamic than Jack - I'd be surprised to see him in place of any of them.  Then there's defensive small fwd like ANB or JKH - I guess that role is possible but they want Kent in there doing the defensive things AND providing offensive danger.

I dont see why Jack couldn't do an offensive/defensive smaller forward role to complement Jeffy. Obviously hasn't That sort of speed but hes a clever user of the ball.

I dont see Jack as a mid much these days ( @afl ) but might be handy elsewhere.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

52 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'm not really sure what FP is these days?  Garlett is the small who regularly plays deep.  Petracca, Hannan and VDB (if he was fit) play medium-tall forwards but all are much more dynamic than Jack - I'd be surprised to see him in place of any of them.  Then there's defensive small fwd like ANB or JKH - I guess that role is possible but they want Kent in there doing the defensive things AND providing offensive danger.

I agree Old.  Goodwin has said on several occasions that Jack is getting closer and suggested he's working on a few things.  What?  My view has always been that he has more footy smarts than the majority on the list, he has been praised for weeks (years) for doing the team things and he has not seemed to have played meaningfully better in the last few weeks that before.

I've always assumed that his lack of pace/agility has kept him out because his skills are better than so many.  So is he getting faster?  Is it possible that he could go from not fast enough to fast enough during the season?  Wouldn't have thought so.

And play against Adelaide who have so many quick players?  We all want to see Jack succeed but it's very difficult to see what would have changed in the last few weeks to facilitate it.  If he does, like everyone else I wish him all the best.

[whatwhat say what 22,313]

He's an inside mid who is getting 20-25 possessions a game in the vfl.

Sad to say but that's not exactly banging down the door to replace one of Oliver, Jones, Viney, Tyson, Lewis or Vince.

I would love to see him back and firing...but it's obviously less rather than more likely.

[old55 23,047]

4 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I agree Old.  Goodwin has said on several occasions that Jack is getting closer and suggested he's working on a few things.  What?  My view has always been that he has more footy smarts than the majority on the list, he has been praised for weeks (years) for doing the team things and he has not seemed to have played meaningfully better in the last few weeks that before.

I've always assumed that his lack of pace/agility has kept him out because his skills are better than so many.  So is he getting faster?  Is it possible that he could go from not fast enough to fast enough during the season?  Wouldn't have thought so.

And play against Adelaide who have so many quick players?  We all want to see Jack succeed but it's very difficult to see what would have changed in the last few weeks to facilitate it.  If he does, like everyone else I wish him all the best.

When Vince was suspended in R1 Tyson came in in R2 

When Lewis was suspended in R2 then Vince came back in R3

Then Lewis came back in R5 and also Vince went into the midfield

I think with Tyson, Lewis and Vince in there Jack is depth and even if one of them is out he still appears to be depth.

Looks like 2 of them out and he will get a run

[rjay 24,680]

21 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

He's an inside mid who is getting 20-25 possessions a game in the vfl.

Sad to say but that's not exactly banging down the door to replace one of Oliver, Jones, Viney, Tyson, Lewis or Vince.

I would love to see him back and firing...but it's obviously less rather than more likely.

Interesting....

The coach says he's played a number of roles for the team.

I know he's played off HB, on the wing not just as an inside mid.

As we've seen with Bugg, numbers aren't the only thing that counts....

[McQueen 17,864]

17 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

He's an inside mid who is getting 20-25 possessions a game in the vfl.

Sad to say but that's not exactly banging down the door to replace one of Oliver, Jones, Viney, Tyson, Lewis or Vince.

I would love to see him back and firing...but it's obviously less rather than more likely.

He's actually been averaging 25+ touches, lots of tackles, marking the ball strongly and hitting the scoreboard. His case for selection is as good as anyone's.

Nobody knows what role he might fill when he finally meets all of Goodwins objectives for him. You've placed him with blokes who either play solely in the guts or rotate off halfback.

I believe Trengove can easily impact a contest in the forward half at AFL so there's no issues there.

If I was to have a stab at anything holding him out of the team, it would be his burst then closing speed ability when the opposition rebounds. Nothing new really but if he can somehow manage to improve these facets of his game, I still believe he's a better choice than what we've been trialling/persisting with.

[Nasher 33,607]

Despite all the allusion to "working on things", one of the objectives he's got to meet must surely be "be the best available option". The only player currently in our side that he could displace is Bugg, or possibly Tyson as 55 said, but Bugg took the VFL game he played in by the throat. It's all well and good be doing all the things the coach asks of you - and I doubt Trengove has ever done any less - but there still needs to be an opening in the side.

He's not competing with JKH. Kent is a far more dynamic option for that part of the ground and by the last Plapp report, he's just about in.

[McQueen 17,864]

9 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Despite all the allusion to "working on things", one of the objectives he's got to meet must surely be "be the best available option". The only player currently in our side that he could displace is Bugg, or possibly Tyson as 55 said, but Bugg took the VFL game he played in by the throat. It's all well and good be doing all the things the coach asks of you - and I doubt Trengove has ever done any less - but there still needs to be an opening in the side.

He's not competing with JKH. Kent is a far more dynamic option for that part of the ground and by the last Plapp report, he's just about in.

He's faster, I agree.

What else?

[Demons1858 1,732]

Would love to see Trenners play and all the players getting around him again after a goal. Deserves a chance.

He just needs to be sharp in the mind. There are plenty of slowish mids (he isn't that slow) but what they have is great decision making and execution. Lewis is no speedstars.and Tyson speed and execution has been poor this year

Could also see him playing off half back where he can read the play, cut off the angles, and intercept mark. If we had another accomplished quick forward then he could also go forward to complement them but we don't. and so might not be a good fit there

[Dr. Gonzo 23,891]

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

He's faster, I agree.

What else?

He can score