Changes v Collingwood

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,935]

Garlett barely trained today, according to the training thread so must be in severe doubt.

When Frost is in the side I wish we had Pedersen and when Pedersen is in the side I wished we had Frost. Bottom line is I don't think either player is good enough.

in - Brayshaw

out - Vince 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Bring-Back-Powell

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

2 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Garlett barely trained today, according to the training thread so must be in severe doubt.

When Frost is in the side I wish we had Pedersen and when Pedersen is in the side I wished we had Frost. Bottom line is I don't think either player is good enough.

in - Brayshaw

out - Vince 

haha i think alot of us share this opinion. But for the sake of understanding the game better i think we should have Pedersen in. If they really insist on making him a forward then give Frost a year at Casey to learn the forward craft with Weeds, and revist that next year. Having Frost with a footy brain, Weeds, Hogan, Watts, and Garlett/Kent/Kennedy is a pretty decent sounding forwardline. But right now frost just doesnt understand where to be and when.

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

When Frost is in the side I wish we had Pedersen and when Pedersen is in the side I wished we had Frost. Bottom line is I don't think either player is good enough.

But we haven't seen Frost in the backline yet which would provide a definitive comparison between the two. Pedo up front gets in the way, and not too bad in the backline. Frost will be lucky to kick 5 goals for the year in the forward line, and doesn't lay enough tackles - but I reckon (based on watching him at GWS) he could be great as a KPD. I understand the club are trying to stick to a plan, but it's a [censored] one and the sooner they recognise this the better.

[stuie 7,374]

15 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

haha i think alot of us share this opinion. But for the sake of understanding the game better i think we should have Pedersen in. If they really insist on making him a forward then give Frost a year at Casey to learn the forward craft with Weeds, and revist that next year. Having Frost with a footy brain, Weeds, Hogan, Watts, and Garlett/Kent/Kennedy is a pretty decent sounding forwardline. But right now frost just doesnt understand where to be and when.

Yet strangely our forward line as a collective has functioned better with Frost there than it has with Pedersen there....

 

[Gator 17,449]

33 minutes ago, Loose Men Everywhere said:

Not having a go at you, but if we used that as the criterion for selecting our team then no-one would've gotten a gig for the last decade!

Every list has a core of 'potential' AFL flag quality players.  

I have always (and will always) judge players on that criteria.

Naturally, you and others, can please yourself.

Edited April 13, 2016 by ProDee

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yet strangely our forward line as a collective has functioned better with Frost there than it has with Pedersen there....

haha yeah that is true, but like i said earlier i feel that frost is more of a decoy than anything else. He wasnt really involved in much of our good ball movement on the weekend. Does someone know his score involvements? that would be an interesting stat.

I dont mind pedersen cos he can take a mark 70-80 out as a get out of jail kick. Frost and Dawes both struggle with this. Dawes is a better lead up, not a contested mark and Frost is kinda nothing. He seems more like an oversized FP better front and centre than a FF/CHF which i think is what they lack. We have 3 small forwards who have all shown they have talent 4 if you count harmes but he plays a little more up the ground. We dont need frost at ground level we need him in the air and he hasnt provided enough of that as of yet

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

haha yeah that is true, but like i said earlier i feel that frost is more of a decoy than anything else. He wasnt really involved in much of our good ball movement on the weekend. Does someone know his score involvements? that would be an interesting stat.

I dont mind pedersen cos he can take a mark 70-80 out as a get out of jail kick. Frost and Dawes both struggle with this. Dawes is a better lead up, not a contested mark and Frost is kinda nothing. He seems more like an oversized FP better front and centre than a FF/CHF which i think is what they lack. We have 3 small forwards who have all shown they have talent 4 if you count harmes but he plays a little more up the ground. We dont need frost at ground level we need him in the air and he hasnt provided enough of that as of yet

I just think you go with what makes you perform better as a unit, rather than focus on what individuals do.

Watts and Hogan have played a million times better when Frost is the 3rd forward rather then Pedersen. I don't really care that much about how those two stack up individually as neither is the focal point, so to me the effect on the team is the most important.

 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

Just now, stuie said:

I just think you go with what makes you perform better as a unit, rather than focus on what individuals do.

Watts and Hogan have played a million times better when Frost is the 3rd forward rather then Pedersen. I don't really care that much about how those two stack up individually as neither is the focal point, so to me the effect on the team is the most important.

 

Thats a fair reason but we hear all this talk about not having passengers and right now he seems to me like a bit of a passenger. But yeah maybe thats what is best for the other 2 right now, having someone who is just out of their way. 

[Loose Men Everywhere 168]

12 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Every list has a core of 'potential' AFL flag quality players.  

I have always (and will always) judge players on that criteria.

Naturally, you and others, can please yourself.

Yes indeed, every player on every list is potentially a premiership player, but that doesn't equate with quality or a certain ability. Many many premiership players would not have been seen as flag quality, until they were.

Matt Spangher, Steven Armstrong, Aaron Keating e.g. spring to mind - no-one would have ever picked them as flag quality. They had a job to do in that particular team, and it turned out rather nicely for them.

Anyway I am just saying that you can't select teams based on whether or not it contains premiership players, other wise we would only have Lumumba and Dawes running around for us.

[Gator 17,449]

23 minutes ago, Loose Men Everywhere said:

Yes indeed, every player on every list is potentially a premiership player, but that doesn't equate with quality or a certain ability. Many many premiership players would not have been seen as flag quality, until they were.

Matt Spangher, Steven Armstrong, Aaron Keating e.g. spring to mind - no-one would have ever picked them as flag quality. They had a job to do in that particular team, and it turned out rather nicely for them.

Anyway I am just saying that you can't select teams based on whether or not it contains premiership players, other wise we would only have Lumumba and Dawes running around for us.

Yes, I'm aware of those boring arguments.

Does it really need pointing out that I'm talking 'quality' as opposed to the Clay Sampsons of this world ?  Is that how you roll ?  And no, I don't assume that every player can potentially play in a premiership.  Clearly (or I thought it was) I'm referring to the quality core of a list.  You know, the core that doesn't include Matt Jones.

No need to reply.  We look at footy differently.

 

[Deeoldfart 8,061]

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Big man Grundy born on Monday, Christened on Tuesday, School on Wednesday, Haircut on Thursday, Joined Pies on Friday. Preparation on Saturday, Destroyed by Big Max Sunday , that was the end of Big Man Grundy!!

Where do I get this sheeeeeit!?

Out of your arzzzzz, I reckon!

[stinga81 210]

On 4/11/2016 at 10:00 PM, monoccular said:

By all accounts ANB got a lot of the ball and was close to BOG  

Sadly our team appears to lack the mental strength to beat teams 'they should beat'   

And that must stem from poor 'culture'  

And that can only continue if those running the club allow it to

Roos said that (as I recall) several players took EssUndone too lightly - yet they were apparently forgiven......heads should roll if that sort of thing happens 

Absolutely agree %100. I wouldn't be worried against Pies and Tigers the next two weeks if I thought we were mentally strong enough overcome what those sides will dish out on the weekend.

I doubt I will ever be able to fathom how a side (MFC) took a side lightly given the 10 years of losses we've copped, wouldn't you be hungry as ever to win EVERY game you play whether you're playing a top side or bottom? It comes back to what's going on between their ears, and it seems there's still a fair for them to work on in that space. 

[old55 23,687]

Pedersen or Frost or Dawes - fwd/ruck.  None of them are up to it and are just a bridge to one of the Kings or maybe the Weed (although not clear he could ruck).  It's a big set-back that Mitch did his knee - he may have got a taste later this year.  I'm not sure where Max is up to but it is his 3rd year.  Spencil is purely Gawn back-up - 1st ruck.

The FD would have known this in the last recruiting cycle but it's not easy to get a better bridge than those guys.  Lewis Jetta for Callum Sinclair is the going market, we don't have a exact equivalent to Jetta but think Salem for Sinclair (who is "adequate") and you get my drift.

We need to manage the pain until a King is ready and if neither of them make it then we will need to pay the trade price.

[daisycutter 29,701]

5 hours ago, picket fence said:

Big man Grundy born on Monday, Christened on Tuesday, School on Wednesday, Haircut on Thursday, Joined Pies on Friday. Preparation on Saturday, Destroyed by Big Max Sunday , that was the end of Big Man Grundy!!

Where do I get this sheeeeeit!?

try laying off the "supplements", fence

[mo64 5,880]

3 hours ago, stuie said:

I just think you go with what makes you perform better as a unit, rather than focus on what individuals do.

Watts and Hogan have played a million times better when Frost is the 3rd forward rather then Pedersen. I don't really care that much about how those two stack up individually as neither is the focal point, so to me the effect on the team is the most important.

 

I think you are giving way too much credit to Frost. Watts and Hogan have played well when we've won contested possession in the midfield. It's a mere coincidence that we played poorly as a team when Frost was out.

As poorly as VDB has played this year, he's taken far more marks on the lead as a forward than Frost. Frosts' nickname should be Rains, as in Claude Rains The Invisible Man.

[stuie 7,374]

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

I think you are giving way too much credit to Frost. Watts and Hogan have played well when we've won contested possession in the midfield. It's a mere coincidence that we played poorly as a team when Frost was out.

As poorly as VDB has played this year, he's taken far more marks on the lead as a forward than Frost. Frosts' nickname should be Rains, as in Claude Rains The Invisible Man.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying Frost has played well, I'm saying that when he's played our forward line has functioned better.

In the end, that's what's most important, and I don't believe in coincidences in football.

 

 

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Reported on the news Hogan has been carrying a calf injury but is expected to play, Garlett will have a fitness test friday morning that will decide if he'll play and Brayshaw is expected to come in for Vince. 

Said Petracca is still a couple of weeks off 

 

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

AVB and Vince will both miss.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-04-13/two-changes-maybe-more-says-roos

Garlett looks 75% likely, and Brayshaw looks like a lock.

One more good game from Hunt in the magoos could push Wagner out and Hunt in.

By round 10, our best 22 could look very different.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

AVB and Vince will both miss.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-04-13/two-changes-maybe-more-says-roos

Garlett looks 75% likely, and Brayshaw looks like a lock.

One more good game from Hunt in the magoos could push Wagner out and Hunt in.

By round 10, our best 22 could look very different.

Makes sense if Vanders is still carrying that ankle injury from the NAB - Hasn't looked right this year.

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

Garlett for Vanders and Brayshaw for Vince looking more likely. 

The question will be does Brayshaw play half back and mid like Vince has or more his usual forward/mid with some time on the wing. I wouldn't mind trialling him at half back at some stage of the game. 

I think Frost gets another week over Pedersen.

And I think Bugg should as well and I'd definitely put him on Treloar. 

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

On 4/13/2016 at 8:40 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Garlett for Vanders and Brayshaw for Vince looking more likely. 

The question will be does Brayshaw play half back and mid like Vince has or more his usual forward/mid with some time on the wing. I wouldn't mind trialling him at half back at some stage of the game. 

I think Frost gets another week over Pedersen.

And I think Bugg should as well and I'd definitely put him on Treloar. 

Roosy had suggested a few times they might look at playing guys like Brayshaw off half back, and rotate them through the midfield, I am a bit unsure how well it would work, i see Brayshaw as an inside mid who is classy on the outside where as i see Vince as a quality outside mid who has a decent inside game. 

 

[picket fence 17,473]

I hope i'm wrong but given the way Cloke has been playing he is likely to do what he did to us last time and kick, what was it 7 straight!! Hasn't fired a shot since, but it is the Dees after all. It would also not surprise to see Jeremy Howe kick a few as well! Why is it that we either 

A) Play blokes back into form ( opposition)? OR

B) The same players who destroy us year after year save there best vs us and we still have no answers?

FRUSTRATING!

Who gets Howe and who gets Choke!?

Edited April 13, 2016 by picket fence

[monoccular 17,570]

On 11 April 2016 at 1:07 AM, Munga said:

I don't agree lumba offers anything to the side. With ball in hand he's as erratic as a crack head in a drug bust

Not sure that I agree that he is that bad, but what a brilliant simile for use in other contexts. 

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

19 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

Roosy had suggested a few times they might look at playing guys like Brayshaw off half back, and rotate them through the midfield, I am a bit unsure how well it would work, i see Brayshaw as an inside mid who is classy on the outside where as i see Vince as a quality outside mid who has a decent inside game. 

 

Yeah I see it a bit like that. But I also think Brayshaw reads the play pretty well and could take some overhead marks and win contests down back which is still a vital part of it. Plus his ability to kick on his left could be handy as long as he's taking relatively safe options with it. Brayshaw doesn't run or kick like a smooth mover the way Vince can, so it's hard to get a line on his kicks, that said quite often the ball does get to where he wanted it to go.

I just think Jones, Oliver, Tyson and Viney will be in the centre square for a decent amount of the game. Kennedy, Garlett, Kent and Harmes should be playing forward. Matt Jones on the wing. Presuming they are all picked one of Stretch, Bugg or Brayshaw probably have to spend some time at half back. 

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

Reported on the news Hogan has been carrying a calf injury but is expected to play, Garlett will have a fitness test friday morning that will decide if he'll play and Brayshaw is expected to come in for Vince. 

Said Petracca is still a couple of weeks off 

 

Hope it wasn't Misson that said he would play