POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[Macca 16,969]

errr of course it is. Its our home game. We get all the gate receipts and corporate function revenue etc.

Not sure of what you mean with "their members aren't paying at the gate". Why wouldn't they be? If they have a premium membership that allows away games I believe we still get a cut of that on the day.

Its a great day for us and we do very well out of it.

Why would you believe that we get a cut of their premium memberships?

The MCC might but why would they pass on any of that money?

You're looking at this with a trusting eye - I'm not

[Macca 16,969]

I'd agree that the QB clash is a terrific day for us - that's not my point.

My point is that I don't believe that Collingwood are gifting us anything. They still make a decent amount of money out of the QB clash on the back of their premium memberships.

.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Macca

[Lucifers Hero 39,805]

Coaches votes:

10 Bernie Vince (Melb)
6 Jesse Hogan (Melb)
4 Max Gawn (Melb)
3 Jack Viney (Melb)
3 Jack Watts (Melb)
2 Colin Garland (Melb)
2 Dane Swan (Coll)

Almost a clean sweep! Good to see Garland get a few.

Heard today Jesse is now a hot favourite for Rising Star.

[chook fowler 19,459]

Watching the replay - apart from the obvious good contributors I really liked Vanders game and while Brayshaw didn't get a lot of it he was central to many of our most important chain of possessions - he always puts the ball in the right spot. Very impressive.

Harmes cameo was a gem -attacked the ball, made good decisions and has some speed.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Why would you believe that we get a cut of their premium memberships?

The MCC might but why would they pass on any of that money?

You're looking at this with a trusting eye - I'm not

well you don't think clubs can sell memberships including away games and pocket the lot without paying the home club something do you?

only way you could pay would be based on such members actually attending an away game

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Watching the replay - apart from the obvious good contributors I really liked Vanders game and while Brayshaw didn't get a lot of it he was central to many of our most important chain of possessions - he always puts the ball in the right spot. Very impressive.

Harmes cameo was a gem -attacked the ball, made good decisions and has some speed.

We really missed him during the middle of the year. Provides toughness mixed with some run and carry and an air of arrogance about his play as well. It's been said numerous times but Jason Taylor pulled off a recruiting coup here.

[Skuit 10,031]

OK Finally had time to watch the replay as promised and while I said I would name names, I can't be bothered tracking them all down since I am supposed to be working so Adam Farr ("Grimes an absolute liability") will have to stand in for the Grimes haters.

Yes, he was caught twice with the ball and penalised in the first half, but in his defence he was trying to create some run in the first case.

Yes, he gave Gawn one of those 1 metre handpasses that put Max under pressure and resulted in a ball up.

Yes, he was out marked on the lead (twice).

Yes he kicked out on the full first possession.

BUT...He took at least four second half marks including a strong contested mark in the back 25 when they had the momentum late in the 3rd and cleared with a pass to T MAC.

He took an uncontested mark in the first term and with a pass to Garland started the possession chain that ended in Hogan's first goal.

He created run in the 3rd term with the ball ending with Garlett who kicked to the square resulting in another Hogan goal.

He consistently, so far as you can tell on the teeve, ran to space to create options for run out of defence and was still running late in the last when we were controlling the game with a possession game.

He cleared the ball out of defence, or assisted in an effective clearance, several times.

Stats, for what they're worth gave him 18 possessions, including 13 kicks at 85% effective, although that effectiveness figure probably overstates him slightly since a couple of hand passes simply went to team mates who were immediately wrapped up.

I admit I over-stated his worth but I was reacting to claims he is an outright liability. He clearly isn't. I don't know if indirect goal assists is a thing but he had a couple (see above). He was caught a few times but he is generally in the hot zone so that's going to happen.

T Mac I rate very highly, but he plays in the hot zone too and averages an outright clanger every week. But we don't label him an outright liability, rightly so.

I reckon what's going on with Grimes' critics at the moment is that some of us are primed to see him make a disposal blue (which everyone does, even Jones) so when he makes an error it is the thing his critics remember and they overlook the other stuff.

In psychology it's called 'confirmation bias'. Anyone condemning Grimes outright needs to take another look.

I'll save you some time pitmaster and put my hand up as a Grimes detractor. To say anyone who criticises Jack is a hater is just rhetoric. I also thought he had a very decent game on the weekend. But that's the problem. His best isn't quite good enough. Showed some great defensive efforts and then constantly too slow to react.

[Nasher 33,616]

I'd agree that the QB clash is a terrific day for us - that's not my point.

My point is that I don't believe that Collingwood are gifting us anything. They still make a decent ount of money out of the QB clash on the back of their premiun memberships

I don't think Collingwood are gifting us anything because they don't make the fixture. They don't get to decide whose home game it is, so it is not theirs to gift us.

[Lucifers Hero 39,805]

well you don't think clubs can sell memberships including away games and pocket the lot without paying the home club something do you?

only way you could pay would be based on such members actually attending an away game

That is how it works dc.

I contacted the club last time this came up and the response was:

Thank you for your email.

If you purchase a home and away membership, all of the money from the membership goes to the club.

Please let me know if you have further questions and I would be happy to assist.

Kind regards,

So as Macca said this greatly reduces our revenue from the QB game.

It isn't as lucrative as most people think, or Eddie would have us believe.

But I did enjoy that we had a 66,000+ crowd on QB and their home game on Sat was only 37,800k!!

Edited August 3, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Macca 16,969]

well you don't think clubs can sell memberships including away games and pocket the lot without paying the home club something do you?

only way you could pay would be based on such members actually attending an away game

I don't particularly trust anyone when it comes to these sort of things ... documentation of the settled figure would settle the argument dc ... can you tell us where we can find that?

Anyway, my original point stands ... the Pies make a substantial amount of money from their away fixtures on the back of their premium memberships.

That whole Western stand is a big money maker for them ... at opposition home games.

.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Macca

[daisycutter 29,616]

That is how it works dc.

I contacted the club last time this came up and the response was:

Thank you for your email.

If you purchase a home and away membership, all of the money from the membership goes to the club.

Please let me know if you have further questions and I would be happy to assist.

Kind regards,

Jane Lonsdale

So as Macca said this greatly reduces our revenue from the QB game.

It isn't as lucrative as most people think, or Eddie would have us believe.

But I did enjoy that we had a 66,000+ crowd on QB and their home game on Sat was only 37,800k!!

thanks for info........that's pretty amazing and doesn't make much sense.....but there you are

still seem there must be something else, but just a thought

[Macca 16,969]

I don't think Collingwood are gifting us anything because they don't make the fixture. They don't get to decide whose home game it is, so it is not theirs to gift us.

There's a large view that we are gifted the QB clash ... and it's my view that we aren't gifted the game.

Eddie often will make a pointed reference but he isn't telling the football world that his club profits from the game as well.

[daisycutter 29,616]

jack viney coming up next on 7mate

[xarronn 380]

That is how it works dc.

I contacted the club last time this came up and the response was:

Thank you for your email.

If you purchase a home and away membership, all of the money from the membership goes to the club.

Please let me know if you have further questions and I would be happy to assist.

Kind regards,

Jane Lonsdale

So as Macca said this greatly reduces our revenue from the QB game.

It isn't as lucrative as most people think, or Eddie would have us believe.

But I did enjoy that we had a 66,000+ crowd on QB and their home game on Sat was only 37,800k!!

I'd bet that you got the stock standard response to what was perceived as a stock standard question, i.e. who gets the money from my membership? It's true that all the money from the membership goes to the club to start with. The club keeps it all for Home games. It would also keep all the revenue from away games if you don't attend that game.

However I am sure a club forks over money to the Home team if you have paid for away games as part of your membership and you attend the away game. How could it be otherwise?

Clubs generally keep all the revenue from home games (unless there is a special sharing agreement). Why would an arrangement be in place which permits clubs (like Collingwood) to undercut our revenue.

Yeah I already know the answer - the AFL is a corrupt organisation led by incompetents yadda yadda. - But seriously!

[monoccular 17,428]

Sunny looked confident and in control. There looks to be cohesion down back with jetta Dunn McDonald garland playing their role. Salem back as well would provide some class.

The resurrection of both Dunn's and Jetta's careers last year showed firstly great dedication and hard work on both their parts, but also depended on Roos showing faith and presumingly giving them defined roles

A great job all round.

Well done.

PS I would have Salem back as HBF as soon as he reaches the requisite level of match fitness possibly at the expense of Grimes.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

On QB Collingwood get to play an away game on the MCG.

They love it.

Imagine if they had to play at Gold Coast, or Launceston, or Freo instead? Eddie would start arguing FOR a QB match against us.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Second behind Hawkins as of last round. Both are credited with one this round according to the AFL stats, so that won't change. Cale Hooker needs 4 to overtake him.

Right, um so Hogan only took 1 contested mark against Collingwood??? Thought he took a few???

[Lucifers Hero 39,805]

I'd bet that you got the stock standard response to what was perceived as a stock standard question, i.e. who gets the money from my membership? It's true that all the money from the membership goes to the club to start with. The club keeps it all for Home games. It would also keep all the revenue from away games if you don't attend that game.

However I am sure a club forks over money to the Home team if you have paid for away games as part of your membership and you attend the away game. How could it be otherwise?

Clubs generally keep all the revenue from home games (unless there is a special sharing agreement). Why would an arrangement be in place which permits clubs (like Collingwood) to undercut our revenue.

Yeah I already know the answer - the AFL is a corrupt organisation led by incompetents yadda yadda. - But seriously!

The specific question asked in my email was: When a person buys a membership for home and away games in Victoria does all that money stay with MFC or does some or all of the ‘away’ game money go to the other club?

As you saw from the response the money stays with the MFC, same goes for Collingwood et al.

Think about it. Using the QB game as an example, how would MFC know how many Collingwood members come to the game to claim revenue from Collingwood. Yes, Collingwood's computers could tell them but there are so many classes of membership apportioning the right $$ to each different member type for the QB game would not be easy even with computers. We may not like it but Collingwood keep their members money when they come to our home QB game. As we do in reverse.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[daisycutter 29,616]

The specific question asked in my email was: When a person buys a membership for home and away games in Victoria does all that money stay with MFC or does some or all of the ‘away’ game money go to the other club?

As you saw from the response the money stays with the MFC, same goes for Collingwood et al.

Think about it. Using the QB game as an example, how would MFC know how many Collingwood members come to the game to claim revenue from Collingwood. Yes, Collingwood's computers could tell them but there are so many classes of membership apportioning the right $$ to each different member type for the QB game would not be easy even with computers. We may not like it but Collingwood keep their members money when they come to our home QB game. As we do in reverse.

well firstly it's the mcc's computers and secondly it would be dead easy for a computer to recognise an away team's membership card and keep tallies, so that in itself wouldn't pose much of a problem.

it take the point though on the way you phrased your question to the club

[Macca 16,969]

That is how it works dc.

I contacted the club last time this came up and the response was:

Thank you for your email.

If you purchase a home and away membership, all of the money from the membership goes to the club.

Please let me know if you have further questions and I would be happy to assist.

Kind regards,

So as Macca said this greatly reduces our revenue from the QB game.

It isn't as lucrative as most people think, or Eddie would have us believe.

But I did enjoy that we had a 66,000+ crowd on QB and their home game on Sat was only 37,800k!!

So, if we assume that Collingwood gets to keep all it's revenue from their premium memberships then it stands to reason that they will be making a pretty penny from their away games at the MCG. They would also profit from merchandise sales and membership sales on these days as well - as well as other forms of revenue.

Another interesting take on the small attendance on Saturday is that Eddie can't complain about a Sunday night timeslot like he did last year when the Collingwood/Carlton game only drew about 40k ... this time around, their club had the prime spot of Saturday afternoon with no other games being played in Melbourne and only about 37k turned up. We pulled over 66k for our home game.

I don't expect people to necessarily click on the following link but 5 of their membership types supports the argument that Collingwood can indeed do quite well out of their away fixtures in Melbourne ... click here for more details

[Macca 16,969]

We probably should have beaten Collingwood by 8-10 goals. Of course, not many were predicting that before the game but we looked like winners all day ... it took us until the last quarter to put them away.

A number of players are starting to emerge or improve from last year including quite a few players who have been on our list for quite some time ... specifically Gawn, Watts, Garland, Jetta, Dunn, Howe and also the relative newcomer in Viney. At various times, most of those 7 players have had big question marks against their names. So to see them all start to play well is quite heartening.

When you add in the new players and draftees, a solid, cohesive team is perhaps starting to blossom.

Add in Petracca and hopefully Trengove along with another fruitful off season of trading & drafting and we may push for finals next season. A decent free agent or 2 would help as well. To be a finals contender we're going to need 24 - 28 genuine AFL standard players.

The team needs a genuine hunger for wins right now however - and self belief. If we can take that sort of attitude into all our remaining games, we should be able to snag 2 or 3 more wins. We have an absolute need to finish the season well.

What is often true is that a 7-9 win season can be the most frustrating of all - lots of what if's and lost opportunities ... and a 7-9 win season doesn't necessarily lead to better seasons ahead - we still need to recruit well and our existing core group of players need to take another step.

[Chook 15,013]

We probably should have beaten Collingwood by 8-10 goals. Of course, not many were predicting that before the game but we looked like winners all day ... it took us until the last quarter to put them away.

A number of players are starting to emerge or improve from last year including quite a few players who have been on our list for quite some time ... specifically Gawn, Watts, Garland, Jetta, Dunn, Howe and also the relative newcomer in Viney. At various times, most of those 7 players have had big question marks against their names. So to see them all start to play well is quite heartening.

When you add in the new players and draftees, a solid, cohesive team is perhaps starting to blossom.

Add in Petracca and hopefully Trengove along with another fruitful off season of trading & drafting and we may push for finals next season. A decent free agent or 2 would help as well. To be a finals contender we're going to need 24 - 28 genuine AFL standard players.

The team needs a genuine hunger for wins right now however - and self belief. If we can take that sort of attitude into all our remaining games, we should be able to snag 2 or 3 more wins. We have an absolute need to finish the season well.

What is often true is that a 7-9 win season can be the most frustrating of all - lots of what if's and lost opportunities ... and a 7-9 win season doesn't necessarily lead to better seasons ahead - we still need to recruit well and our existing core group of players need to take another step.

I agree with you on everyone except Garland. IMO, he has a long way to go before he gets anywhere near his best form.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Hogan Rising Star favourite?

After Footy Classified showed some damning vision of Cripps in their loss to North, I'm inclined to agree.

[Macca 16,969]

I agree with you on everyone except Garland. IMO, he has a long way to go before he gets anywhere near his best form.

Well, it's only a small sample size but he looked like the Garland we know who can play on Saturday - it was his attack on the ball that stood out. Got some coaches votes too. He got a number of late fists on the ball that I noticed - possession count was good and 6 tackles.

I get that he's not been great up until now but he's the type of player who can continue his form on once he has found that form - more so than a few others who can only put in a good game every now and again. He's a confidence player.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Right, um so Hogan only took 1 contested mark against Collingwood??? Thought he took a few???

As I said, according to the AFL stats this is the case. Feel free to look for yourself. 9 marks, 1 contested. Footywire agree. Funnily enough, Cale Hooker took the four CM I said he needed and is now in second behind Hawkins.

Amazing what happens when you bother to look stuff up instead of posting mindless snark, isn't it?