2015 apparent out of contract players merged with targets at seasons end

[Je Roos Salem 661]

How many mature mids is enough? I think we should work on developing with what already have in the midfielder/half back areas. Of course Trengove's prognosis is uncertain, as well as whether he'll good enough, but we have enough to work with especially when you consider Petracca. However, we should definitely throw a lot at Dylan Shiel given his age.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Some must drink a lot when posting on here, first of all we have Leuie from Brisbane and then Vickery from Richmond, we have a really good young ruck in King, another pre season into him and he will have a bit more size, Spencer has next year on his contract as well, so he will be playing next year as well, Roos gave it to him, I am so glad nobody on here has any say in the trading or delisting etc

Why does no one rate Max Gawn? He's far from a dud, just hasn't gotten enough opportunity due to his size (for playing alongside Jamar)

[whatwhat say what 19,633]

Why does no one rate Max Gawn? He's far from a dud, just hasn't gotten enough opportunity due to his size (for playing alongside Jamar)

unfortunately he's another big bloke who doesn't seem to realise he's a big bloke. goes at every mark one-handed. unfortunately he's not shown enough in five years to suggest he's capable of forging a long afl career.

[Bendigo Demon 115]

There is still a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go this season. Who and what we target depends on so many variables between now and then, that identifying targets now is dumb. Our biggest priority is to continue to develop the players on our list, get games into Brayshaw, Stretch, Neal-Bullen, Oscar Mac and all our young blokes. Then, at seasons end, we identify our needs, and target them. Roos will turn the list over again, and if he is as successful at the end of this season as he has been after his first 2 seasons, then we will continue to see the improvement we have seen already.

If GWS make the finals, why on earth would Dylan SHIEL leave them to come to us? Save the picks, develop the right young blokes and continue to build a team.

We need to continue to improve, to make our club a place where talented young players see a future, not a place for old hacks to retire. Then, we need to identify players such as Dom Tyson who have been in the sytem a little while and target them.

I have faith in Roos. He acquired a shocking list, and has done the best he can to turn it over and develop it. He continues to trim the dead wood around the club, but knows it takes time.

While we have had our ups and downs so far this season, we have realistically had only 2 games that we would have expected to win, and won them both. If we get to 8 wins this season, that is a massive improvement to where we were. We will still have some high draft picks. Roos will use them wisely. Then our list will have changed dramatically again.

While we are nowhere near the top teams yet, and really, not anywhere near the finals, let's not look for an overnight fix. Continue to draft top talent, and keep them. Develop a culture, and then, as we look like finishing somewhere near the finals, we target a good free agent. Timing is everything.

I'm happy with Lumumba, Vince, and Garlett so far. They aren't A graders, but they have fitted in well and are better than what we had.

I don't think that we should waste our time on blokes like Vickery, he hasn't been bereft of chances, just hasn't been good enough in an average team.

In summary, is Roos' plan working- Slowly, yes.

Do we need to make big deals yet? No, this needs to wait until our kids develop a bit. Once we have 50 games or so into Brayshaw, Hogan, Stretch, then go for it. Timing is everything.

[jackaub 1,402]

A good ruckman is a mid 'Adam' and must be a priority. For our midfield to improve we need to be evenly matched and at the moment we are one down as soon as the ball is tapped in the centre bounce.

We are often playing 3 v 4 at centre bounces, 17 v 18 in general play.

So why haven't we addressed this before? Gawn, Spencer and Fitz have been around so long and haven't performed

This club seems to hang on to some too long

[jackaub 1,402]

There is still a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go this season. Who and what we target depends on so many variables between now and then, that identifying targets now is dumb. Our biggest priority is to continue to develop the players on our list, get games into Brayshaw, Stretch, Neal-Bullen, Oscar Mac and all our young blokes. Then, at seasons end, we identify our needs, and target them. Roos will turn the list over again, and if he is as successful at the end of this season as he has been after his first 2 seasons, then we will continue to see the improvement we have seen already.

If GWS make the finals, why on earth would Dylan SHIEL leave them to come to us? Save the picks, develop the right young blokes and continue to build a team.

We need to continue to improve, to make our club a place where talented young players see a future, not a place for old hacks to retire. Then, we need to identify players such as Dom Tyson who have been in the sytem a little while and target them.

I have faith in Roos. He acquired a shocking list, and has done the best he can to turn it over and develop it. He continues to trim the dead wood around the club, but knows it takes time.

While we have had our ups and downs so far this season, we have realistically had only 2 games that we would have expected to win, and won them both. If we get to 8 wins this season, that is a massive improvement to where we were. We will still have some high draft picks. Roos will use them wisely. Then our list will have changed dramatically again.

While we are nowhere near the top teams yet, and really, not anywhere near the finals, let's not look for an overnight fix. Continue to draft top talent, and keep them. Develop a culture, and then, as we look like finishing somewhere near the finals, we target a good free agent. Timing is everything.

I'm happy with Lumumba, Vince, and Garlett so far. They aren't A graders, but they have fitted in well and are better than what we had.

I don't think that we should waste our time on blokes like Vickery, he hasn't been bereft of chances, just hasn't been good enough in an average team.

In summary, is Roos' plan working- Slowly, yes.

Do we need to make big deals yet? No, this needs to wait until our kids develop a bit. Once we have 50 games or so into Brayshaw, Hogan, Stretch, then go for it. Timing is everything.

Oh Yeah lets wait like we have the past 8 years for players to come good Great plan!We will be out of business if we dont show some rapid improvement

[rjay 24,037]

Some must drink a lot when posting on here, first of all we have Leuie from Brisbane and then Vickery from Richmond, we have a really good young ruck in King, another pre season into him and he will have a bit more size, Spencer has next year on his contract as well, so he will be playing next year as well, Roos gave it to him, I am so glad nobody on here has any say in the trading or delisting etc

I think we will look at bringing in a ruck at the end of this season so I guess we will see at that time.

As for King, hasn't he been playing as a key forward in the development league...

[dazzledavey36 49,207]

Some must drink a lot when posting on here, first of all we have Leuie from Brisbane and then Vickery from Richmond, we have a really good young ruck in King, another pre season into him and he will have a bit more size, Spencer has next year on his contract as well, so he will be playing next year as well, Roos gave it to him, I am so glad nobody on here has any say in the trading or delisting etc

Mate.. Max King is atleast 6 years away that even in his 2nd year he isn't dominating the development squad.

And Spencer is meh..

True reality.. something you need to learn to accept

[Ted Lasso 17,084]

Mate.. Max King is atleast 6 years away that even in his 2nd year he isn't dominating the development squad.

And Spencer is meh..

True reality.. something you need to learn to accept

Granted, ruckman can be late bloomers, and Spencer is improving but we really need an imposing ruckman now

you only have to look at the difference Mumford made at the Giants

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Some must drink a lot when posting on here, first of all we have Leuie from Brisbane and then Vickery from Richmond, we have a really good young ruck in King, another pre season into him and he will have a bit more size, Spencer has next year on his contract as well, so he will be playing next year as well, Roos gave it to him, I am so glad nobody on here has any say in the trading or delisting etc

Whether you like it or not, we will be getting a ruckman for next year.

Jamar is shot and Spencer just doesn't cut it at the top level. We have no other options and Roos is doing the right thing by playing the blokes who are in better form at VFL level so please save the talk of Spencer currently being out number 1 ruckman as of last week. It's definitely not something to be excited about.

I agree with Bendigo demon's post in that turning over certain players, developing and blooding new talent the right way and trading and acquiring the right players does take time which is incredibly tough for supporters as it seems as if that has been the story at our club for a decade.

We'll be working with what we've got for the time, but next year you'd hope we'll have acquired one competent Ruckman who is able to run, perform the basic skills of the game well and is a smart footballer.

[stuie 7,374]

How many mature mids is enough? I think we should work on developing with what already have in the midfielder/half back areas. Of course Trengove's prognosis is uncertain, as well as whether he'll good enough, but we have enough to work with especially when you consider Petracca. However, we should definitely throw a lot at Dylan Shiel given his age.

Why does no one rate Max Gawn? He's far from a dud, just hasn't gotten enough opportunity due to his size (for playing alongside Jamar)

Mate, our list is still really poor, we don't have enough to work with as far as rucks and mids go.

[Biffen 12,423]

Why does no one rate Max Gawn? He's far from a dud, just hasn't gotten enough opportunity due to his size (for playing alongside Jamar)

I rate Max-

Minson is finito.

Max is going to give people back their heroes!

[mo64 5,240]

The problem with Gawn is his lack of consistency of effort and concentration. In the past 3 Casey games, he's gone from pathetic, to good to very good. Without seeing the stats, I reckon he took at least 6 contested marks against Sandy, but still made schoolboy mistakes. He has the most talent of all the ruckmen on our list, and is definitely a keeper. And like all ruckmen, he may thrive with the responsibility of the no.1 mantle. Spencer doesn't cut it because of his lack of skill and nous. Until Gawn matures, I'd trade for a stopgap ruckman like Griffin from Freo.

[rjay 24,037]

The problem with Gawn is his lack of consistency of effort and concentration. In the past 3 Casey games, he's gone from pathetic, to good to very good. Without seeing the stats, I reckon he took at least 6 contested marks against Sandy, but still made schoolboy mistakes. He has the most talent of all the ruckmen on our list, and is definitely a keeper. And like all ruckmen, he may thrive with the responsibility of the no.1 mantle. Spencer doesn't cut it because of his lack of skill and nous. Until Gawn matures, I'd trade for a stopgap ruckman like Griffin from Freo.

I agree with you that Max has the most talent of our current rucks.

I think Max needs to get the number one ruck birth at Casey. I don't see him as the forward/ruck they are trying to make him. Maybe if Spencer doesn't cut it in the next few weeks at the top level then Max will be given the opportunity to step up first at Casey then in the AFL team.

I think his development is being stifled because he is the only forward option of the 3, we need to see if Max can stand up and soon.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Do you know who Ty Vickory is or are you pulling the [censored]?

He's played one senior game this year and had 9 disposals.

yes I do, I don't watch much these days but see snippets of games & clips. from what I've seen last year, & bits this year, he appears ready to take the game on, finally.

IMO he would be a perfect Roos project, (like a young Jolly) but sadly, Roosy only has one more after this year.

TY Vickery has a lot of natural talent as a footy player, but effort & focus I can't say at this level. but he's been kept on at Richmond for this reason.

I think he is suffering from being at Richmond, where his father was a key element there. IMO he would do better with tough love elsewhere, before his career is ended for him.

perhaps Roosy could get him to see reality & unleash his desire before its too late. the boy is mobile, but not sure of his pace against other senior rucks as I don't watch & specifically compare them.

seeing snippets of players with large amounts of space & time between, highlights their changes to me. whereas seeing them every week, the subtle changes don't appear as clearly.

I have always been on his bandwagon, wanting us to recruit him, but glad now we didn't as we had a habit of turning wine into dirty water.

[Wunders 392]

Hnmm Stef Martin was sensational yesterday!

Why the hell did we................................ ????

I believe it was because we rated Jamar more. From my recollection when Jamar went down for most of the year a few years back, Martin absolutely played like he is right now at brisbane, but when jamar was fit the powers that be opted for Jamar being better than Martin (which i still question), hence Jamar came in for martin (whereas brisbane is keeping Leuenburger out and keeping Martin No. 1).

I agree with you that Max has the most talent of our current rucks.

I think Max needs to get the number one ruck birth at Casey. I don't see him as the forward/ruck they are trying to make him. Maybe if Spencer doesn't cut it in the next few weeks at the top level then Max will be given the opportunity to step up first at Casey then in the AFL team.

I think his development is being stifled because he is the only forward option of the 3, we need to see if Max can stand up and soon.

I agree, and think that most supporters realise that we are in trouble with the rucks, so why not play Gawn in the AFL as we all acknowledge he has the most talent.. He needs to develop an AFL ruckmans tank and the best way to do that is to play in this role in the AFL.

In the AFL we then get him to work on:

• His endurance (poor)
• His 1v1 body work
• His marking (stop going one handed/stop bending over to body up, use your hips).

I thought he might have come in last week instead of spencer. I could also see him coming in this week instead of pederson.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Why does no one rate Max Gawn? He's far from a dud, just hasn't gotten enough opportunity due to his size (for playing alongside Jamar)

he doesn't show enough mojo on-field throw her=is weight about or fierce enough at the ball or contests. he's too careful IMO.

milton gawn?

Oh Yeah lets wait like we have the past 8 years for players to come good Great plan!We will be out of business if we dont show some rapid improvement

its the really big blokes you Must wait for: but the mid sized players have to show aggression for a contest from the start in the 2B's.

both should not play in a senior jumper until they are ready to physically take the game & opposition on.

see JWatts mistake. morton, bennel, gysberts blease, etc

none should have played until they developed some c_%$

Edited May 12, 2015 by dee-luded

[stuie 7,374]

I believe it was because we rated Jamar more. From my recollection when Jamar went down for most of the year a few years back, Martin absolutely played like he is right now at brisbane, but when jamar was fit the powers that be opted for Jamar being better than Martin (which i still question), hence Jamar came in for martin (whereas brisbane is keeping Leuenburger out and keeping Martin No. 1).

It was right at the time the rules were changed to favour athletic ruckmen over brute force ruckmen too. Baffling decision by MFC.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Whether you like it or not, we will be getting a ruckman for next year.

Jamar is shot and Spencer just doesn't cut it at the top level. We have no other options and Roos is doing the right thing by playing the blokes who are in better form at VFL level so please save the talk of Spencer currently being out number 1 ruckman as of last week. It's definitely not something to be excited about.

I agree with Bendigo demon's post in that turning over certain players, developing and blooding new talent the right way and trading and acquiring the right players does take time which is incredibly tough for supporters as it seems as if that has been the story at our club for a decade.

We'll be working with what we've got for the time, but next year you'd hope we'll have acquired one competent Ruckman who is able to run, perform the basic skills of the game well and is a smart footballer.

could it be that Russian was dropped for Spence, to setup a competition between the 2 of them, to push Spencer & Jamar further & harder to see what they've got, & to see where Spencer is at Re list management.

the sad thing is Gawn's not on this page, & he needs to get tough, or get out.

the remnants of our sad player development which continued thru the TJohnstone, mclean, sylvia, morton, watts, bennel, gysberts era's are still lingering on our list, & if gawn cannot change his mind & get hard, then he will be gawn, adding to those others mentioned & his career will never take off.

Edited May 12, 2015 by dee-luded

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Callum Sinclair is perfect for us. He can play as a number one ruck, as permanent forward or as a forward/ruck.

He would be a great get.

Sinclair is the one that is gettable. Third in line at WCE, melb boy, wouldn't cost a heap.

[CatFishPig 435]

Its funny how people say that the change and a reality check is what Stef Martin needed, but the thought of getting Ty Vickery from Richmond is a horrible idea... Why couldn't the change of scenery not help Ty like it did for Stef..

Vickery certainly has more natural talent IMO.

On my way to the Richmond game, I said to two Tigers supporters on the train that I was glad Vickery wasn't playing, they laughed, I also said we would pump them, they laughed again. Then they said Watts would kill them, so then it was my time to laugh.....

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

This post just shows how much we do need a real ruckman since you want us to rely on Jake Spencer and a raw, unproven Max King

Not me chap, Roos gave Spencer a 2 year contract, and we still have Jamar and Gawn (who has stalled at the moment, but he can return to form), I just find some of the suggestions hilarious

King, by the way, if we can build him properly has the natural footy ability to be one of the best ruckman MFC has seen in years, big call I know, but reason he was given another year on rookie list

[stinga81 210]

Not me chap, Roos gave Spencer a 2 year contract, and we still have Jamar and Gawn (who has stalled at the moment, but he can return to form), I just find some of the suggestions hilarious

King, by the way, if we can build him properly has the natural footy ability to be one of the best ruckman MFC has seen in years, big call I know, but reason he was given another year on rookie list

hey TDI, appreciate the reports you have provided and apologies if this has been asked and answered by you in a previous thread. But whats going on with Gawn? Seems like he's such an underwhelming start to the year, Is it a confidence issue or injury concerns as why the lack of form? cheers

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Mate, our list is still really poor, we don't have enough to work with as far as rucks and mids go.

Greg Stafford doesn't agree with you Stuie, I know because I asked him, problem we have is all are at different stages of development and career, hence other post about setting up competition between Spencer and Jamar to push both, me I think it will benefit Spencer and may signal the end for Jamar

[spirit of norm smith 13,337]

Zak Jones for approx picks 22 and 40.

Free agent - Matthew Leuenberger.

Draft pick 1st round Sam Weideman.