Adam Goodes

[jackaub 1,402]

"I would however ask what these posters with their mocking tones are actually DOING to address racism and the race divide in this country"?

Or the other problems of our society, Drugs, The Homeless, Crimes against women, Paedophilia, et al

Lets face it many social problems exist and Racism and Race divide are but one issue.

Adam Goodes wants to be taken seriously. Can I suggest to Mr. Goodes that as soon as he retires he join the Liberal or Labour party and run as a member of Parliament!

If he cares so much then it is only logical that he feels so compelled to do something about it as a politician!

If he is really lucky he will be parachuted in to a seat just like Nova Peris another Token

[jackaub 1,402]

We do.

Even constitutional conservatives concede s25 (races can be excluded from voting in elections) and 51xxvi (allows government to make special laws for races) should be removed or changed.

Wow we have a constitution? thats great news. What does it actually say?

Edited May 31, 2015 by jackaub

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

I would however ask what these posters with their mocking tones are actually DOING to address racism and the race divide in this country?

If your passion is genuine, harness it, and actually DO something about it. Something that extends beyond expressing moral outrage on an internet forum over a footballer being booed.

I gather from this that you would like to see more being done to reduce racism in Australia, if only by others. Or am I misreading you?

[daisycutter 28,549]

you're all missing the point

goodsies dance was a fairly amateurish effort, needs a lot more development to succeed at afl level

suggest he gives david rodan a ring for a bit of coaching

otherwise it might be back to the neafl

[P-man 13,168]

I gather from this that you would like to see more being done to reduce racism in Australia, if only by others. Or am I misreading you?

Yes, you are misreading. I contribute financially to some select causes and my mum is a regular volunteer with St VDP which I assist her with when I have the time. Some of her clients are aboriginal, so yes I do my small part.

But I'm not the one getting on my moral high horse and throwing around racist labels like they are going out of fashion, or branding everyone who doesn't like Goodes as weak people who are initimidated by his intelligence. And that's not even the worst dribble I've read.

I'm merely wondering if those who are judging others from the comfort of their central heated lounge rooms are doing anything else about the disparity between the indigenous and non-indigenous segments. Or does the passion only extend to a few choice words expressed anonymously?

[Little Goffy 12,577]

There remains a significant racist population in Australia who habitually look for and make a point of remembering reasons to 'object' to someone who 'just happens to be' Aboriginal. A lot of the conversations about Adam Goodes over the years have been influenced by that scrum. Like the wailing about how 'divisive' his Australian of the year speech was; OMG! He mentioned bad things! OMG! Un-Australian! Slandering white-hater! And that influence, that sustained moaning, affects the conversations of decent people who personally would never consider a person better or worse for any ethnic background.

Similarly, there are definitely people who make a special point of booing Goodes because of his background... no, not his background... his 'opinionated and divisive' habit of actually mentioning his background in public. That booing, and the wind-up of excuses for it, encourages other people, who may not be racist at all, to boo Goodes in turn.

The 13-year old girl shouting explicit racist abuse really is the face of a lot of racism in Australia. She personally didn't really care or know much at all about Goodes' heritage, but she picked up her lines from adults around her and just gave them a go because it was fashionable in her social circles.

I guess what I'm saying is, there may well actually be not very many 'real' racists in Australia, but they are loud, they think they 'stand for real Australia' and they are being allowed too often to get away with making that claim. Their influence produces a lot of racist effects, often enacted by people who personally aren't motivated by racism. But the results, especially for many Indigenous Australians, are just as real and damaging.

And this is where it gets tricky; I would argue that it is not appropriate to boo Adam Goodes, even for earnest reasons, because the groundswell that gets that booing going has its heart in racism, and joining that chorus makes racism more confident. But I can see ow that would feel unnatural and timid to a lot of people.

Its about where do you draw the line and say "I don't much like Adam Goodes, but I'm not going to get stuck into him, that has been made toxic because of so many racists yelling from the sidelines".

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,154]

Yes, you are misreading. I contribute financially to some select causes and my mum is a regular volunteer with St VDP which I assist her with when I have the time. Some of her clients are aboriginal, so yes I do my small part.

But I'm not the one getting on my moral high horse and throwing around racist labels like they are going out of fashion, or branding everyone who doesn't like Goodes as weak people who are initimidated by his intelligence. And that's not even the worst dribble I've read.

I'm merely wondering if those who are judging others from the comfort of their central heated lounge rooms are doing anything else about the disparity between the indigenous and non-indigenous segments. Or does the passion only extend to a few choice words expressed anonymously?

Is this suggesting that decent, tolerant, kind human beings, who go about their business accepting people for who they are, not what the happen to look like are not entitled to be disgusted by the backward, ignorant and vile racism that flashes it's face at times in this country? Unless you've donated money or joined a protest march, you can't express your disappointment at the discriminatory opinions of others??

Voicing your objection is how change comes about.

[Emerald 1,691]

This is getting more depressing than the Jack Watts threads.

[KingDingAling 3,596]

This is getting more depressing than the Jack Watts threads.

Yeah, I agree. Leave these type of threads to the social justice warriors over at big feminist (big footy).

Close thread, let's get back footy.

[Gator 16,893]

...The 13-year old girl shouting explicit racist abuse really is the face of a lot of racism in Australia. She personally didn't really care or know much at all about Goodes' heritage, but she picked up her lines from adults around her and just gave them a go because it was fashionable in her social circles.

So you even know why she called Goodes an ape ? It was because of the racists around her ? Wow, incredible insight, especially as you weren't even there.

People, such as myself, dislike Goodes because he's racially divisive. Rather than make a speech that espoused unity and togetherness, especially as the honour given to Goodes highlighted how far this country has come with regards to bridging the gap, Goodes used the platform to further divide.

Goodes seems to think that this country was utopia prior to European settlement. Does he need a history lesson ? Does he realise that children are now left in dire circumstances, including incest and rape, because authorities are too scared to intervene due to the "stolen generations" myth ? Does he deny he himself is a beneficiary of European settlement ?

I'm 5th or 6th generation on all 4 sides (depending on how you calculate it), but none of my ancestors were guilty of any atrocities. None came here as convicts. It's one thing to recognise the mistakes of our settlement, but the constant finger pointing does zero to improve the lot of present-day underprivileged indigenous people.

Goodes doesn't improve relations, he merely fosters division.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,254]

Australia is an open genuinely free speech society. One of the few in this world. However, I often wonder whether or not "free" discussions, such as the preceding 10 pages, actually do any good. Seems to be more a digging in, or reinforcement of opinion, rather than any possible acceptance of change.

Wast of bloody time really.

[daisycutter 28,549]

Australia is an open genuinely free speech society. One of the few in this world. However, I often wonder whether or not "free" discussions, such as the preceding 10 pages, actually do any good. Seems to be more a digging in, or reinforcement of opinion, rather than any possible acceptance of change.

Wast of bloody time really.

wotcha talkin bout, willis?

[P-man 13,168]

The 13-year old girl shouting explicit racist abuse really is the face of a lot of racism in Australia. She personally didn't really care or know much at all about Goodes' heritage, but she picked up her lines from adults around her and just gave them a go because it was fashionable in her social circles.

And your evidence of this claim?

Is this suggesting that decent, tolerant, kind human beings, who go about their business accepting people for who they are, not what the happen to look like are not entitled to be disgusted by the backward, ignorant and vile racism that flashes it's face at times in this country? Unless you've donated money or joined a protest march, you can't express your disappointment at the discriminatory opinions of others??

Voicing your objection is how change comes about.

No, people are entitled to voice their opinion whatever it is.

What I seriously tire of are the people who sit back saying "oh isn't racism awful. Look at these neanderthals excusing their racist ways. Did you know 50% of all Australians are inherently racist?"

Meanwhile they do nothing, absolutely nothing, to stem what they see as a widespread problem, or assist those they see as disadvantaged. It's little more than posing wih no substance to it.

But each to their own. As long as you can sleep at night knowing you're better than those who boo Adam Goodes. Moral duty fulfilled.

Close the [censored] thread for all I care.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Australia is an open genuinely free speech society. One of the few in this world. However, I often wonder whether or not "free" discussions, such as the preceding 10 pages, actually do any good. Seems to be more a digging in, or reinforcement of opinion, rather than any possible acceptance of change.

Wast of bloody time really.

My attitude to the "No T$" thread, exactly. So I don't read it, and I don't go on there urging anyone to close it. So the calls to close this thread are pretty suss, IMO.

[Biffen 12,327]

My attitude to the "No T$" thread, exactly. So I don't read it, and I don't go on there urging anyone to close it. So the calls to close this thread are pretty suss, IMO.

Too highbrow for you?

There are pictures as well.

[Axis of Bob 10,228]

To my mind, anti-Goodes sentiment is about people being uncomfortable with society changing. This was reinforced after speaking with some 60-65 year old relatives.

Goodes is lauded for his willingness to stand up against racism and his celebration of his own indigenous culture. He is made Australian of the Year and speaks about how Australia has come from a place of deep institutionalised racism and that we are still on the journey to true racial harmony.

But this is taken by conservative (often older) white Australians as an accusation that they are bad people (ie, racists). They resent being labelled as racists because they feel they are good people and have changed with the times as anti-racism becomes more prominent. They remember their own parents and see how they are far less racist than their parents, so society is going 'too far'.

Suddenly they feel like everything is going too far and Goodes, by laying down some truths about indigenous relations on a national stage, is being 'racially divisive'. He's not being divisive, but people feel like they have compromised on racism, so they think that aborigines should compromise a little too. The problem is that the world is changing and this change makes them feel uncomfortable.

In a strange way, the fact the people are uncomfortable with being called racists is actually a positive step. It means that people acknowledge the idea that being racist is bad thing. It's certainly a big step forward from 20 years ago.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Axis of Bob

[chookrat 3,776]

By the way the media has carried on about this you'd think Goodes threw an actual spear at the Carlton supporters.

[Axis of Bob 10,228]

Meanwhile they do nothing, absolutely nothing, to stem what they see as a widespread problem, or assist those they see as disadvantaged. It's little more than posing wih no substance to it.

Surely you understand that engaging in a debate about racism on a footy club forum is doing something to combat racism.

[Little Goffy 12,577]

So you even know why she called Goodes an ape ? It was because of the racists around her ? Wow, incredible insight, especially as you weren't even there.

People, such as myself, dislike Goodes because he's racially divisive. Rather than make a speech that espoused unity and togetherness, especially as the honour given to Goodes highlighted how far this country has come with regards to bridging the gap, Goodes used the platform to further divide.

Goodes seems to think that this country was utopia prior to European settlement. Does he need a history lesson ? Does he realise that children are now left in dire circumstances, including incest and rape, because authorities are too scared to intervene due to the "stolen generations" myth ? Does he deny he himself is a beneficiary of European settlement ?

I'm 5th or 6th generation on all 4 sides (depending on how you calculate it), but none of my ancestors were guilty of any atrocities. None came here as convicts. It's one thing to recognise the mistakes of our settlement, but the constant finger pointing does zero to improve the lot of present-day underprivileged indigenous people.

Goodes doesn't improve relations, he merely fosters division.

Ok, let's roll this paper out.

Pt.1.

The coverage of the incident with the girl including her apologising and saying that she didn't really realise how racist it was and had just picked it up from some family members and other fans. So yes, it is actually on the public record. Also, it is well and truly on the record, and shown in footage from the game, that both Goodes and Jetta had been continually racially abused by the crowd, and that Goodes' decision to turn and point out the source of the abuse as a 'final straw' moment, before he even knew the face of the person he was turning to.

Pt 2.

"Wah wah wah don't you just hate it when people go around trashing the brand wah wah my country is so great how dare anyone say out loud that there are serious injustices in our history and current society, Australia is so great and free so shut up you stinker". One of these days it might occur to you that the procession of nicey-nice award winners all announcing what a magical land of milk and honey and equality for all are, actually, being divisive. Its just that the 1/3rd or so of Australia that, one way or another, has being left off the communal gravy train has also been cut out of the national conversation. When budgets come out and the papers are covered in 'How will a family on just $150,000 a year cope!', you know the country is messed up. One of the ways it is messed up has been, and continues to be, discrimination against Aboriginal people. If you want a country where someone from such a massively excluded part of the community should stand on a podium and say 'oh yes, I'm delighted with everything, come get a hug, I'm so grateful', maybe democracy isn't for you.

Pt 3.

a) Stolen Generations is a verified multi-generational event, documented in numerous sources and even found in bureaucratic archives, and actually meets all the (very tight) legal criteria of being an act of genocide in international law. Few pretend that Australia was any kind of utopia prior to settlement but there were a great variety of very different, functioning societies. The colonial and overall 'pre-rights era' set about, as a matter of policy, to destroy any semblance of leadership, continuity or even family connection. In theory the goal was assimilation but this was done in a half-hearted manner, often by people in favour of 'just letting them die out'. Rape of aboriginal women by mission leaders was not only common, but often done on the rationale of 'helping' the Aboriginal community become whiter. Aboriginal women were also routinely assigned as 'domestic servants' to 'help' the 'lonely' white settlers in outback areas, until they were returned mysterious pregnant. Intergenerational patterns of sexual violence were given a massive 'boost' by this era, and the means of healing and community leadership necessary to overcome it were also forcibly dismantled and not replaced. Try to remember that most of the Stolen Generations were selected because of their 'sufficient whiteness of appearance', and that a great many of those white-ish babies were the product of coercion or outright rape that was verifiably encouraged by many local officials as the best solution to the 'Aboriginal problem'.

Now, I'm not pretending that Aboriginal communities were some kind of paradise of universal hugs and lollies, but to imply that the sexual abuse issue in remote Indigenous communities is a product of them 'being Aboriginal' and that the Stolen Generations 'myth' as you call it is some kind of excuse to avoid being 'saved' by the whites, is pretty vile and either outright racist or just mind-boggling ill-informed. Have you been getting your news from Andrew Bolt or Quadrant magazine?

b) Beneficiary of European Settlement? The man happens to be seriously good at AFL, and you are making it sound like he got there as some kind of handout. Now, I've always been interested by the complex ambiguity of the benefits and harms of the Colonial era worldwide, but like most Aboriginal people Adam Goodes has managed to succeed despite having to overcome real harassment and real discrimination. Saying he somehow owes it to European settlement would be like saying you owe your livelihood to Syrians and Iraqis, since they pioneered urban settlements and all.

Pt 4.

None of your ancestors committed any atrocities. Ok. Good. Whose lands have they lived on? I guess there weren't any farmers in your family. No foresters, no fishers, no swagmen, shearers, miners, and nobody who, say, lived on the ground. I guess they just all levitated and lived by yogic deep breathing. Your ancestors "going back 5 or 6 generations on 4 sides" were all living and working on Aboriginal land that was forcibly taken. If you have a problem with Aboriginal people objecting to discrimination and pointing to disadvantage now, well, I am sure they would settle for sending you a 220 year rent bill and calling it even.

Now, does that cover it, or would you like a reading list?

[KingDingAling 3,596]

Australia is an open genuinely free speech society. One of the few in this world. However, I often wonder whether or not "free" discussions, such as the preceding 10 pages, actually do any good. Seems to be more a digging in, or reinforcement of opinion, rather than any possible acceptance of change.

Wast of bloody time really.

"Australia is an open genuinely free speech society"

I will do the jokes BBO.

[KLV 1,631]

https://twitter.com/melindayasso/status/604250127121809408

Not sure that link will work, but it sums up my thought exactly. There's has been so many people this week saying the boos are because he was chosen as Australian of the Year and dared to use that platform to bring attention to indigenous issues/concerns. They obviously are happy to be amazed and entertained by indigenous players on the sporting field, but don't want those same people to get a voice and talk about indigenous problems.

I just don't buy it is because of anything he's done or continues to do n the footy field. The game is full of players who play unpopular footy (playing for frees etc), and they get booed occasionally , but the booing of Goodes is at entirely a new level.

And people saying he shouldn't have picked on a 13 year old girl, seriously? He reacted to racist abuse and would have had no way to know anything about the person saying it. 13 years old in no excuse any way.

Yep, I agree with you ST. The hawthorn supporters protest that they don't boo other "indigenous players, they even have some on their list! I suspect a lot of us love the "indigenous boys", while their running, ducking and weaving, kicking goals, just as long as they don't get ahead of themselves, rise above their station, perhaps confront white Australia with some uncomfortable truths. Let alone be acknowledged so significantly for doing so, by receiving Australian of the year.

When I saw his war dance, I laughed. He wants to rub our faces in his aboriginality, he doesn't want to be popular. He wants to make a point.

[Moonshadow 16,200]

Its a fairly typical lefty, I want to save the world response to something you don't like. Attack the man rather than respond to any of the comments.

How is the view for your high horse there Mr Muppet? Are you speaking on behalf of the world with that sweeping statement?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Moonshadow

[whatwhat say what 18,977]

great post little goffy.

[Moonshadow 16,200]

Little Goffy, f'ing brilliant post.

[Moonshadow 16,200]

Australia is an open genuinely free speech society. One of the few in this world.

Unless of course, the person talking is outspoken about social justice issues which go against the sheltered, mainstream norm. Then they are labelled divisive and arrogant and told to 'blend in'. Next thing you know, Goodes will be called un-Australian.

I understand what you are saying BBO, and I'm aware this thread was always going to create a [censored] (thanks Picket). It's going around in circles and will continue to do so until whenever it is locked.