THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[jazza 1,323]

Ok how about.

or

Sorry about an earlier gif posted before text popped up.

Old Dee and R@B???

[beelzebub 22,225]

Old Dee and R@B???

not sure ...in a hat !!

[Cards13 9,117]

I notice on here recently that many are calling for Essendon to be suspended for 2-4 years or banned altogether. I think we should be a bit careful what we wish for.

A ban on Essendon would dismantle the economics of our game, unravel media rights particular at a time when they are up for renegotiation, and of the rules that the AFL has carefully built up over the years to make the competition more equitable and frankly more interesting. I'm not sure any of us wants that to happen. It also may explain why the AFL has been so manipulative in this exercise in an effort to protect the economics of the game.

But this must not, and cannot be through allowing rouge elements to get away with cheating, or defiance of drug rules as set out in the WADA code. I am definitely not making excuses or softening the need to have those responsible for this appalling situation at Essendon punished. The WADA/CAS process must take its course in accordance with the WADA code.

Let's assume though as a result of the appeal to CAS, a portion (more than 3) of the players were to be banned for 2 years. This then gives grounds for Essendon as a whole to receive the same treatment. I'm not entirely certain the mechanism for doing this but I have an idea the sentences are the responsibility for the code itself through its own Tribunals, but they must satisfy CAS they are reasonable and commensurate with the crime. This may leave therefore some room for negotiation.

It this were the case, what would be reasonable, but also protect the future of the AFL itself? How about something like this?

A. Essendon admit their responsibility for this affair, and apologise to the broader football community for bringing the game into disrepute, and putting their players health at risk, and apologise to the broader Australian sporting public for tarnishing the good name of Australian sport;

B. Hird, and his key staff get life bans, some of the Board including Little resign, and basically rebuild the club from within. The new administration would then have to undertake to put in place a governance regime reflecting the WADA code and best practice risk management; and

C. Essendon continue playing in the AFL but with a revised list minus the banned players.

Meantime, WorkSafe continue their investigation and have the cards fall as they may. The rest will be worked out in the courts as the legal actions from players, the Hirds, and the agents commence and conclude, no doubt costing the club tens of millions of dollars.

Hopefully, by the end of all this there will be a viable AFL competition, a contrite, consierably poorer Essendon, and a wiser AFL which understands the need for modern risk management practices in itself and its clubs. And there is a firm reaffirmation of the AFL's commitment to, and championing of, the WADA codes across all Australian sport.

Maybe some good could come out of all yet.

If the "game" is not strong enough to endure 1 club getting a hammering then it was never strong enough.

This whole "the game" line drives me nuts, this will be a blip in history, remembered but not worried about to much within cycle of player turn over.

Again the correct out come must be delivered, if that means the club gets 2-4, so bet it, I guarantee there is an AFL/dons contingency plan in place ready to go. Ie the club folds in its current form but reforms as a different entity and on they go.

[beelzebub 22,225]

If the "game" is not strong enough to endure 1 club getting a hammering then it was never strong enough.

This whole "the game" line drives me nuts, this will be a blip in history, remembered but not worried about to much within cycle of player turn over.

Again the correct out come must be delivered, if that means the club gets 2-4, so bet it, I guarantee there is an AFL/dons contingency plan in place ready to go. Ie the club folds in its current form but reforms as a different entity and on they go.

i totally agree.

If EFC( stuffed ) was to morph into a new club but still be called Bombers etc...and live at Windy Hill...but be entirely disassociated with the priors admin etc .. might work.. After all the lawsuits coming its way it might go this path any way.

If they fold though...dont care

[Cards13 9,117]

I agree with others that this is a very good article and if followed by insightful reader's comments. The point about the spreadsheet mentioned by Hird (presumably prepared by Excel) is particularly significant. Nobody passes on spreadsheets without keeping a copy plus they must have been prepared on a computer (and therefore can possibly be forensically retrieved even if deleted)! If anything, Hird is digging himself in deeper and should not continue in football. Talk about the Demons being fined for bringing the game into disrepute after being found "innocent" of tanking!

Yes but was the computer an Essendon computer? Or was it a computer that was used by an Ess employee but not an actual Dons laptop/pc ie a personal computer/laptop they used to maintain the correct records of the program.

[robbiefrom13 877]

When WADA/CAS finishes with this, they are likely to have some pretty tough things to say. The AFL will want to survive with some credibility, and a fall-guy will certainly help them. Besides, Essendon will be sued from pillar to post for the next who-knows-how-long, as well as being terminally discredited - more for what happened since they were outed than for the original doping regime. Essendon may not be saveable. The AFL needs to be.

Club overboard!

[beelzebub 22,225]

Yes but was the computer an Essendon computer? Or was it a computer that was used by an Ess employee but not an actual Dons laptop/pc ie a personal computer/laptop they used to maintain the correct records of the program.

most of this jabbing was done off site.. me thinks the -puter a portable type.. and probably belonging to someone 'associated' with the program...someone...overseeing it perhaps....with an interest in its value and numbers etc.. hmmmmmmm

[dee-luded 2,958]

I agree, the AFL did the bare minimum and have been trying to rebuild their brand ever since. Out of all the players and possible scenarios Toyota (AFL) choose Michael Long for that new ad - what a coincidence. I will say all I remember Long for is what he did to Simmonds

I think the AFL should worry less about getting a contrived outcome for the bummers; & put their concentration on the way the game is played today, & start bringing the highlights back to the game which has been removed through a bleaching & ultra violet light treatment.

they've emasculated the game & given its testes the snip to boot.

........ wasn't the recent Hawks/Roos game something to behold, after the 'oldies' had a say before the game. the rough & tumble, push & shove, & an occasional clip behind the ear was great to see.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,035]

but he would keep records because he was always talking of his "research studies" and was always looking for future "opportunities"

besides, he would need to have records just to know where he was at, at any time during the process

34 players and dozens of s"supplements" at different dosages and cycle gets pretty complicated pretty quickly

no, he would be lost without accurate records

True. I understand that is what any sensible person would do. I guess I am doubting that Dank qualifies. Speaking of which, I guess I should try to find some of Dank's research papers, to see if his "research studies" are fair dinkum or not ...

[Red and Bluebeard 2,035]

Old Dee and R@B???

Neither has the beard, jazza ...

[monoccular 16,100]

i totally agree.

If EFC( stuffed ) was to morph into a new club but still be called Bombers etc...and live at Windy Hill...but be entirely disassociated with the priors admin etc .. might work.. After all the lawsuits coming its way it might go this path any way.

If they fold though...dont care

In fact they could be closed down, and their recent records expunged

And, while in the mood, Carkton could be merged with GWS and expelled from our state.

A good way to reduce the biomass to 16 clubs :-)

Edited May 14, 2015 by monoccular

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 754]

Agree about careful what you wish for. But:

A. I don't care if Hird/EFC admit responsibility (I do care if they admit guilt). I don't care if they apologise to anyone or no-one. I do want Hird punished.

B. On Life Bans: Most of Hird's staff at the time are gone as are most of Little's then board and a new governance regime is already in place. To ban Hird's then staff is only going to penalise a lot of people who have gone on with their lives, had little to do with the 2012 program and are at other clubs eg our very own Simon Goodwin...I want him coaching at the Dees not on the sidelines, watching.

So, yes I agree with the careful what you wish for sentiment but don't share your 'wishes.'

Plenty of good has already come out of it and the AFL game will be stronger regardless. Having said that nothing will change the AFL's penchant for controlling, pulling strings and favours.

FWIW. I think the players will be found guilty and will receive suspensions (< 1yr) which will be backdated so they will not miss games. I am ok with such an outcome as the players aren't the real villains here. I doubt EFC will be punished from the WADA appeal. (Can't speak for the Worksafe review)

So Esssendon will continue as a viable entity.

As for Hird, throw the book at him!!

I'm OK with that outcome too as long as they're dis-banded after their suspensions due to the collective advantage gained.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,423]

I see the issue here they were using the wrong dots

I see Hird at Centrelink.

[Willmoy1947 3,784]

"..puter a portable type" would be owner traced through the sms's and e mails probably has already.

So they know whose it is just not where it is.

[beelzebub 22,225]

"..puter a portable type" would be owner traced through the sms's and e mails probably has already.

So they know whose it is just not where it is.

Yes ....to me also.......it's the WHERE ???

[daisycutter 28,569]

"..puter a portable type" would be owner traced through the sms's and e mails probably has already.

So they know whose it is just not where it is.

at the time of the asada investigation dank was no longer an employee of essendon

given the pathetic powers asada had they couldn't touch him or demand anything of him

in fact none of the essendon employees could be compelled to give evidence. that's why asada partnered with the afl who did have those powers

this all goes to show that asada need more powers if they are to have much chance in catching cheats other than with urine/blood/hair tests

sadly there is more chance of hell freezing over than asada being gifted more powers of investigation

[Chris 2,892]

I'm OK with that outcome too as long as they're dis-banded after their suspensions due to the collective advantage gained.

If the players took banned drugs they are far from blameless and they must be banned, and the ban must mean something. Otherwise it sends the message that athletes can blame their club/coaches and even if found guilty will miss no time.

[KingSlayer33 170]

If the players took banned drugs they are far from blameless and they must be banned, and the ban must mean something. Otherwise it sends the message that athletes can blame their club/coaches and even if found guilty will miss no time.

Agreed - even if they were duped (a little) by Danks, Hird et al the players are still responsible for what goes into them, as long as they were conscious, AND they continue to reap the benefits of the TB4 injections. Former Olympic athletes I know are disgusted that they have even got to play this long without real sanctions.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 754]

If the players took banned drugs they are far from blameless and they must be banned, and the ban must mean something. Otherwise it sends the message that athletes can blame their club/coaches and even if found guilty will miss no time.

Totally agree. If the ban is for life, well that's what it is. If they're able to return to the game, I don't think they should be able to play together..

[monoccular 16,100]

Does anyone here, or does anyone anywhere, actually know how long any physical benefits that may be obtained from TB4 persist?

And it really pisses me off when people talk of 'retrospective and retroactive penalties and suspensions'.....like are they suggesting that a suspension has already been served even though they were playing possibly under the influence of performing enhancing substances? Are they serious??

Does anyone have any info re the current status of any WorkCare investigation into the club's failure to provide a safe and secure workplace? Perhaps they are holding there fire and ire until after CAS / WADA have had their way, though the issues are actually different.

Edited May 14, 2015 by monoccular

[Dr. Gonzo 22,485]

this is a good point BB, the argument being that the substance ordered wasn't thymomodulin, so it was either TB4 or something else, Essendon have no records and others have said it's TB4 so personally i'd be comfortably satisfied that is what it was, and suddenly the lack of records comes back to bite them.

If it was either TB4 or the mysterious "something else" surely it's up to Essendon to provide an answer to what that "something else" is and provide enough evidence of what it was to convince the tribunal. In the absence of being able to prove what it was they should be slugged just as hard as if it was shown to be a non approved or banned substance.

It is incredulous to think that the tribunal would find them not guilty without having any idea what was actually injected into the players. In this sense the burden of proof should fall back on the accused - if we want to ensure a clean sport.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Love the idea of a new club.

It could have the nickname of the Injectors.

The colour Red is just too good for them to have.

Edited May 14, 2015 by DemonFrog

[biggestred 4,316]

The Tasmanian Bombers has a nice ring to it...

[robbiefrom13 877]

The Tasmanian Bombers has a nice ring to it...

I'm not sure "bombers" is ever going to have a nice ring to it again.

but yes - the licence has to go somewhere. Clean living place Tasmania - breath of fresh air after we get through with Essendon.

[Whispering_Jack 28,002]

The spreadsheet of truth

About those injections:

Player: Yes, them. Thats what you all seem to be forgetting. I was injected, thats not disputed. Injected repeatedly, by a guy now banned for life from footy, in fact from any sport. Offsite, sneakily away from the club, without the doctor knowing. He injected me, had relations with people with convictions and dodgy chemists who wouldnt appear, bought stuff from China, kept lousy notes, has never come out under oath and said what I took. I was told to trust him, a guy now discredited, that the club wants no part of, and couldnt have anything to do with even if they wanted to. He injected me, consistently, with something we are not sure of. Yes, those injections.

For more by Sean Curtain ~ here, here, here and here

I'm starting to wonder if this imaginary player really exists and whether the Essendon players who have been painted by many as the "victims" of this saga really care about what was injected into their bodies or whether the truth will ever come out?

Can someone remind me why the AFL Tribunal decision was never made public? Wasn't it to protect the names and reputations of the players who at the end of it all were, according to James Hird, found to be "innocent"?

So now that the names of the Essendon 34 are in the public domain, what is the non-publication of the decision protecting?