The virus still exists

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I gotta say it.

When I start reading threads in which certain posters start questioning Ben Newton's his value after some inconsistency in performances, you know there are some deeper issues surrounding the club. A player with a total of 9 games to his name.

Garland

Jamar

McKenzie

Grimes

Bail

Fitzpatrick

Spencer

Watts

Dunn

Howe

Gawn

Spencer

Jones

Terlich

There's one common theme I see in that group of players. Inconsistency in performance.

Some of them have questionable football smarts, talent and skill-level and others have questionable 'effort' and physicality in general.

Some of them are our most senior players and still do not stamp their authority in our team with in their approach to the game. Others are unique in that their careers wouldn't have possibly lasted this long had they been at other clubs. Some of them are conditioned. Too used to losing. So much so that it's inevitable that they'll drop their heads as soon as the opposition get on top during a game. Resulting in selfish play for fear of making mistakes. Too used to going throwing in the towel.

We've offloaded a whole host who had shown the same symptoms over the past couple of years and I have no doubt we'll see many on this list either traded or delisted.

In my honest assessment of our list, I think there are still players on our list who are expendable and there are two areas that we need to address at the end of this season.

Area 1: Kicking skills out of defence.

I think we are in desperate need for one more backman who can split teams apart with their kicking skills. We've struggled for years with our transitional play from the backline to the forwardline and whilst some may argue there are a few contributing factors, I believe the skill level has been the major concern there. Garland and Howe are expendable. When I watch Garland play, he plays without a sense of purpose and without a sense of assuredness. His kicking is questionable. His form is and has been questionable for too long and therefore his position in the side will be questionable if he remains an irrelevant piece of the puzzle which so far, he is. As a senior player we should expect more. And he is one of many over the years who is yet to consistently get better with age. One great year in the middle of a bunch of 'meh' years and some bad ones. You cannot improve as a side if your senior players have such fluctuations in their form and we've have had far too many of them.

Howe is similar in that he hasn't risen to any great heights and hasn't produced on a consistent basis although he has played less games and is younger than Garland. However, he holds more currency as he's out of contract this year and I'm sure sides will make a play for him.

We need to go hard at someone like McKenzie at the end of the year. We need a mature body who is a decent one-on-one player but who has exceptional foot-skills. A side must have at least two elite kickers in their back six. Sides need a strong mix of attributes from their back six but kicking skills are unquestionably important.

Salem and (insert player) - Foot Skills

McDonald and Lumumba - Run and carry

Jetta and Dunn - Lock-down defenders

Frost - Versatility

Unltimately, you'd love to be able to draft players who possess a number of 'elite' attributes. Hawthorn have managed to do it, which is why they are far superior to most sides.

Area 2 : A Ruckman

Obvious to most, whilst Jamar battles admirably hard in the ruck he offers little around the ground. He's most definitely not as fit as you need to be as a modern day ruckman, especially one who's playing pretty much without support. His skills have always been questionable as well as his decision making and he is another senior player on the long list of NQR's. Form fluctuations, one AA year and plenty of average ones. Again, hasn't done the MFC a whole lot of good.

On an even more worrying note we have backup ruckmen in Spencer and Fitzpatrick (who is now playing as a FB in the VFL side which surely says something about the way he Rucks). Spencer as we know competes hard but I have literally seen him do nothing at AFL level that would make me think he'll ever get picked unless all of the above get injured.

And then of course there's Gawn. A bloke who without a doubt could be an extremely valuable player. Has size, has good aggression, can take a contested mark and can kick a goal but another who for whatever reason, doesn't quite get what it takes to cut the grade. To me his personality exemplifies the way he plays footy. It's all just a bit of a kick in the park. Happy to be on an AFL list, happy to be the funny guy around the club. Another who perhaps has been affected by the culture that was around upon his arrival. No fierce drive or desire to be the best he can be. Personalities of this nature standout like a sore thumb if drafted into a 'kick in the park' club-like environment which ours has been..

So, without question we'll be going after someone. Leuenberger, Bellchambers and Kreuzer are all players who providing fit, would easily get the gig if at our club. They're all free agents and I'm sure we'll have a crack at one.

Lastly, further midfield support:

There's no doubting we've been gifted with some genuinely exciting young midfielders. But gosh darn do we need to develop and nurture them the right way.

Viney

Tyson

Brayshaw

Petracca

JKH

Vandenberg

and to a lesser extent:

Newton

Michie

Stretch

ANB

Toumpas

There's no doubt we still need more support added. Cross has been a great addition as a standard setter for our younger players but he may not be kicking around next year. Which leaves Jones, Vince and Lumumba - (when playing through the middle) - as our experience which is clearly not enough.

We've got to go hard for a genuine A grade gun mid should be... Names have already been thrown around so I'll leave that to posters.

I'd also be into going for a second-tier mid/Selwood type player. Someone who will be an upgrade on some of NQR's, provide plenty of run and will be another breath of fresh air to a semi stale list.

Obviously we are early in the season, but if we address those areas and we continue to build and develop our younger players coming through and continue to build a really professional environment, next year could be the year we jump the blocks. We'll have ridded pretty much all of the virus and with personalities like Viney, Hogan, Brayshaw and co under the tutelage of the quality coaches we have, 2016 could be the year we finally take off.

Dees.

Edited May 6, 2015 by stevethemanjordan

[Mickey 4,197]

The virus still exists alright, I've been suffering from it since Saturday! Mines the flu though...

[daisycutter 28,688]

The virus still exists alright, I've been suffering from it since Saturday! Mines the flu though...

think you'll find it is more likely a cold, mickey

with influenza you probably wouldn't be posting

[Chris 2,892]

I gotta say it.

When I start reading threads in which certain posters start questioning Ben Newton's his value after some inconsistency in performances, you know there are some deeper issues surrounding the club. A player with a total of 9 games to his name.

Garland

Jamar

McKenzie

Grimes

Bail

Fitzpatrick

Spencer

Watts

Dunn

Howe

Gawn

Spencer

Jones

Terlich

There's one common theme I see in that group of players. Inconsistency in performance.

Some of them have questionable football smarts, talent and skill-level and others have questionable 'effort' and physicality in general.

Some of them are our most senior players and still do not stamp their authority in our team with in their approach to the game. Others are unique in that their careers wouldn't have possibly lasted this long had they been at other clubs. Some of them are conditioned. Too used to losing. So much so that it's inevitable that they'll drop their heads as soon as the opposition get on top during a game. Resulting in selfish play for fear of making mistakes. Too used to going throwing in the towel.

We've offloaded a whole host who had shown the same symptoms over the past couple of years and I have no doubt we'll see many on this list either traded or delisted.

In my honest assessment of our list, I think there are still players on our list who are expendable and there are two areas that we need to address at the end of this season.

Area 1: Kicking skills out of defence.

I think we are in desperate need for one more backman who can split teams apart with their kicking skills. We've struggled for years with our transitional play from the backline to the forwardline and whilst some may argue there are a few contributing factors, I believe the skill level has been the major concern there. Garland and Howe are expendable. When I watch Garland play, he plays without a sense of purpose and without a sense of assuredness. His kicking is questionable. His form is and has been questionable for too long and therefore his position in the side will be questionable if he remains an irrelevant piece of the puzzle which so far, he is. As a senior player we should expect more. And he is one of many over the years who is yet to consistently get better with age. One great year in the middle of a bunch of 'meh' years and some bad ones. You cannot improve as a side if your senior players have such fluctuations in their form and we've have had far too many of them.

Howe is similar in that he hasn't risen to any great heights and hasn't produced on a consistent basis although he has played less games and is younger than Garland. However, he holds more currency as he's out of contract this year and I'm sure sides will make a play for him.

We need to go hard at someone like McKenzie at the end of the year. We need a mature body who is a decent one-on-one player but who has exceptional foot-skills. A side must have at least two elite kickers in their back six. Sides need a strong mix of attributes from their back six but kicking skills are unquestionably important.

Salem and (insert player) - Foot Skills

McDonald and Lumumba - Run and carry

Jetta and Dunn - Lock-down defenders

Frost - Versatility

Unltimately, you'd love to be able to draft players who possess a number of 'elite' attributes. Hawthorn have managed to do it, which is why they are far superior to most sides.

Area 2 : A Ruckman

Obvious to most, whilst Jamar battles admirably hard in the ruck he offers little around the ground. He's most definitely not as fit as you need to be as a modern day ruckman, especially one who's playing pretty much without support. His skills have always been questionable as well as his decision making and he is another senior player on the long list of NQR's. Form fluctuations, one AA year and plenty of average ones. Again, hasn't done the MFC a whole lot of good.

On an even more worrying note we have backup ruckmen in Spencer and Fitzpatrick (who is now playing as a FB in the VFL side which surely says something about the way he Rucks). Spencer as we know competes hard but I have literally seen him do nothing at AFL level that would make me think he'll ever get picked unless all of the above get injured.

And then of course there's Gawn. A bloke who without a doubt could be an extremely valuable player. Has size, has good aggression, can take a contested mark and can kick a goal but another who for whatever reason, doesn't quite get what it takes to cut the grade. To me his personality exemplifies the way he plays footy. It's all just a bit of a kick in the park. Happy to be on an AFL list, happy to be the funny guy around the club. Another who perhaps has been affected by the culture that was around upon his arrival. No fierce drive or desire to be the best he can be. Personalities of this nature standout like a sore thumb if drafted into a 'kick in the park' club-like environment which ours has been..

So, without question we'll be going after someone. Leuenberger, Bellchambers and Kreuzer are all players who providing fit, would easily get the gig if at our club. They're all free agents and I'm sure we'll have a crack at one.

Lastly, further midfield support:

There's no doubting we've been gifted with some genuinely exciting young midfielders. But gosh darn do we need to develop and nurture them the right way.

Viney

Tyson

Brayshaw

Petracca

JKH

Vandenberg

and to a lesser extent:

Newton

Michie

Stretch

ANB

Toumpas

There's no doubt we still need more support added. Cross has been a great addition as a standard setter for our younger players but he may not be kicking around next year. Which leaves Jones, Vince and Lumumba - (when playing through the middle) - as our experience which is clearly not enough.

We've got to go hard for a genuine A grade gun mid should be... Names have already been thrown around so I'll leave that to posters.

I'd also be into going for a second-tier mid/Selwood type player. Someone who will be an upgrade on some of NQR's, provide plenty of run and will be another breath of fresh air to a semi stale list.

Obviously we are early in the season, but if we address those areas and we continue to build and develop our younger players coming through and continue to build a really professional environment, next year could be the year we jump the blocks. We'll have ridded pretty much all of the virus and with personalities like Viney, Hogan, Brayshaw and co under the tutelage of the quality coaches we have, 2016 could be the year we finally take off.

Dees.

One comment on a post that makes sense. In the back six you have listed three qualities you look for amongst the six. You forgot one, intercept marking. This doesn't need to be a specific role, but you need at least one, if not two, of the ones you have listed who have this skill, Howe has it in spades.

For me the question over Howe comes down to this. If we replace him with a better kick we will lose out on intercept marking, will the gain be greater than the loss? Given his kicking isn't that bad, and his marking most the time is brilliant, I can't see a replacement that would actually deliver us a gain. Keep working on his kicking is the solution to this one, and that is why he would be chased by other clubs.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

One comment on a post that makes sense. In the back six you have listed three qualities you look for amongst the six. You forgot one, intercept marking. This doesn't need to be a specific role, but you need at least one, if not two, of the ones you have listed who have this skill, Howe has it in spades.

For me the question over Howe comes down to this. If we replace him with a better kick we will lose out on intercept marking, will the gain be greater than the loss? Given his kicking isn't that bad, and his marking most the time is brilliant, I can't see a replacement that would actually deliver us a gain. Keep working on his kicking is the solution to this one, and that is why he would be chased by other clubs.

It's a good point.

I'm inclined to believe that the reason Frost was playing forward/ruck was because Roos doesn't believe Spencer or Gawn offer enough in other areas at the moment to play as the second ruck.

However, if we were to pickup a ready made Ruckman next year, I believe Frost would take a KP down back. He's extremely competitive, strong and good in one-on-ones. If that were the case, you'd have Dunn and Frost taking key posts with McDonald taking the third tall and being able to intercept mark. Dunn, McDonald and Frost can all intercept mark. I know Howe is special in that he's an aeriel specialist, but I honestly don't think we're short of intercept markers. I think one of Howe or Garland will go and I reckon we'll get a Ruckman. That to me suggests a reshuffling of roles and positions slightly.

I'm happy for Howe to stay and play the role if Garland leaves and we pickup McKenzie. But overall, I'd rather a player who can split teams apart back there than having an aerial specialist who makes questionable decisions when it comes to kicking.

Edited May 6, 2015 by stevethemanjordan

[Fat Tony 4,533]

Garland, Dunn and Howe are three of our most consistent players. Our problem in the future is that the midfield lacks size, pace and skill.

NB: Why the obsession with Garland? He had a bad 2014 after ankle surgery and has been in pretty good form this year.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Garland, Dunn and Howe are three of our most consistent players. Our problem in the future is that the midfield lacks size, pace and skill.

NB: Why the obsession with Garland? He had a bad 2014 after ankle surgery and has been in pretty good form this year.

Well I don't know what your definition of 'consistent' is.

And I completely disagree with the comment. They've been three of our most consistent players over what period of time? What is your measurement?

Over their entire careers, each of them have been really inconsistent. I think most would agree with that.

Dunn had a terrific year last year in defence and as one of our senior players you'd hope that would be the norm but it's not.

Garland has been 'meh' so far in games and Howe the same aside from his usual highlights.

McDonald is someone who has been, over a period of time now, getting consistently better and therefore is one of our most consistent players. He is improving his game every year.

And I don't have an obsession with Garland. I have an obsession with my desire for our team to improve and to think about what that means. And unfortunately for posters like yourself it means player upgrading, trading and delisting. Garland is expendable. Howe is expendable.

Many thought Frawley would be a loss. Many thought Sylvia would be a loss.

I'm simply looking at areas we need to get better in and I'm happy to point the finger at senior figures who are under achieving and not helping the club get off the bottom of the ladder. Garland displays little leadership if any. Howe the same. And their form is hardly inspiring to date.

I agree we still need to address the midfield, but the backline is still a problem area.

[mo64 5,260]

Garland, Dunn and Howe are three of our most consistent players. Our problem in the future is that the midfield lacks size, pace and skill.

NB: Why the obsession with Garland? He had a bad 2014 after ankle surgery and has been in pretty good form this year.

We've seen a few examples this year of teams that have been smashed in the ruck and beaten in the centre clearances, yet won the game. One of the issues that STMJ alludes to is our lack of creativity in the backline. It's all very well for a backman to negate his direct opponent, but if he can't provide any rebound, in all likelihood the ball will get locked into our back half, and the opposition will ultimately score. None of the players above provides any run rebound run. You can add Grimes to that list.

[rpfc 27,640]

There's not much a backline can do when their midfield gives up 59 Inside 50s (20 more than us) and 416 possessions (113 more than us).

I get what you are saying; we are not a very developed list but the backline of late has been a comparative beacon.

I would love to be in a position where we pick apart the backline but Sauron's eye is fixed on our midfield...

[pantaloons 2,019]

We've put ourselves in a position by virtue of the rancid Martin trade where we probably have to address the near-critical ruck situation in free agency or trade this coming off-season. Hopefully Gawn begins to take some big strides this year, and not just at Solway. Ruckmen take a while, but it's now time for him to take over from Jamar.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

There's not much a backline can do when their midfield gives up 59 Inside 50s (20 more than us) and 416 possessions (113 more than us).

I get what you are saying; we are not a very developed list but the backline of late has been a comparative beacon.

I would love to be in a position where we pick apart the backline but Sauron's eye is fixed on our midfield...

Is that solely the midfield?

It is universally known that we've been the poorest kicking side for a very long time.

If we kick out to a contest from our backline and the ball comes straight back in, that is considered an inside 50.

So again, stats like that do not tell the full story.

I agree on the weekend we were comprehensively smashed in the midfield in most areas, but I am taking an overall look at the field.

It's a given that our midfield needs work. Further development and a further injection of mature quality AFL midfielders as I said in the OP.

But there are other areas that we need to fix pretty immediately also and can be achieved at the same time.

[Sir Why You Little 34,937]

Steve you must fix the engine first otherwise it will never go

[John Crow Batty 8,307]

I thought this was another Jack Watts thread.

[rpfc 27,640]

Is that solely the midfield?

It is universally known that we've been the poorest kicking side for a very long time.

If we kick out to a contest from our backline and the ball comes straight back in, that is considered an inside 50.

So again, stats like that do not tell the full story.

I agree on the weekend we were comprehensively smashed in the midfield in most areas, but I am taking an overall look at the field.

It's a given that our midfield needs work. Further development and a further injection of mature quality AFL midfielders as I said in the OP.

But there are other areas that we need to fix pretty immediately also and can be achieved at the same time.

I would say the midfield shoulder most of the blame and the forwards some of the blame, and the backs negligible blame.

My point is that our backline is put under more scrutiny and pressure than comparative backlines. I know we can chew gum and walk at the same time but we are doing that in the backline with Salem being added for us kicking and aggressiveness. Garland, Dunn, Jetta, and McDonald are all proven AFL players (in various states of form at the present time) and have managed to not miss a beat after losing a formerly, supposedly, pivotal player in Frawley.

I would be tweaking the backline, and looking at how we can support Hogan's acension at the other end of the ground but Suaron's eye, stmj, Sauron's eye!

[Chook 14,614]

I would say the midfield shoulder most of the blame and the forwards some of the blame, and the backs negligible blame.

My point is that our backline is put under more scrutiny and pressure than comparative backlines. I know we can chew gum and walk at the same time but we are doing that in the backline with Salem being added for us kicking and aggressiveness. Garland, Dunn, Jetta, and McDonald are all proven AFL players (in various states of form at the present time) and have managed to not miss a beat after losing a formerly, supposedly, pivotal player in Frawley.

I would be tweaking the backline, and looking at how we can support Hogan's acension at the other end of the ground but Suaron's eye, stmj, Sauron's eye!

???

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,987]

What's scary is on average the last 4-5 years we've cleared out 11 players a year and how much garbage still remains on our list. I thought Dunn was brilliant last year(dropped off a little towards the end of the season). To be honest I've only been able to watch two games this year due to work commitments and living in Sydney, in those I thought he's been ok, but yeah not where he was at last year. I think as a whole were fighting it out more as a team.

A back six I had in one of my early teams before the season started went something like

JETTA FROST DUNN

SALEM TMAC TOUMPAS

That is still a possibility for next year.

[jumbo returns 6,546]

Is Toumpas showing any signs of improvement???

[Demon Dynasty 15,971]

We've put ourselves in a position by virtue of the rancid Martin trade where we probably have to address the near-critical ruck situation in free agency or trade this coming off-season. Hopefully Gawn begins to take some big strides this year, and not just at Solway. Ruckmen take a while, but it's now time for him to take over from Jamar.

Surely his strides are big enough already!...

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,987]

Is Toumpas showing any signs of improvement???

I don't think we will truly know until he gets to show his wares in the seniors.

[jumbo returns 6,546]

I don't think we will truly know until he gets to show his wares in the seniors.

He's at the crossroads then.

But I'm sure he knows this....I'm leaving it.

[rpfc 27,640]

???

The first one is a saying about multi-tasking, and the second one refers to my earlier post.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,564]

Steve you must fix the engine first otherwise it will never go

100%. It is hard to tell just how good or bad our forward and back lines are because they aren't getting the same go as a lot of other clubs.

We have one of the lowest inside 50 counts so our forwards are struggling to get their hands on it. And we have the highest inside 50 count against which is making life very difficult for our backs. If we start winning the midfield battle we may find we've got pretty decent forwards and backs (McDonald and Hogan we already know).