When does the coach start taking the blame?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,481]

- so the main concern is Roos gameplan doesn't focus on attack.

- yet a thread was started last week about Goodwin being behind our push for greater attack.

- next year Goodwin starts to take on extra responsibilities as he prepares to become senior coach.

What a bloody concept.

Garlett Hogan JKH

Howe Dawes Watts

That line up could prove dangerous but needs everyone fit. Can Watts handle one of the top 2 opposition defenders? We need Dawes to play like he did against Adelaide last year every week. Is Howe's best position up forward? We keep forgetting this is Hogans first year. How would we look without Garlett?

Just curious, are the people doubting Roos the same people that said how we now have so much depth three weeks ago?

[bing181 9,437]

Show me one poster who has stated that? Just as it's fair to discuss the performances of a player, who's position on the list is without question, it's fair to discuss the performance of the coach, is it not?

Discuss away.

But the topic heading isn't a neutral "Let's discuss Paul Roos", it's framed as a loaded question. We're in the realm of "when are you going to stop beating your wife?"

[bing181 9,437]

what good is speed if you turn the ball over regularly with clangers and give away 5 free kicks

1 free against on Friday.

Might as well at least make an effort to stick to the facts.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 free against on Friday.

Might as well at least make an effort to stick to the facts.

He gave away 5 free kicks two weeks ago against Freo, but I see your point re: this week. He is capable of multiple turnovers/frees against during a game though.

[mo64 5,886]

- so the main concern is Roos gameplan doesn't focus on attack.

- yet a thread was started last week about Goodwin being behind our push for greater attack.

- next year Goodwin starts to take on extra responsibilities as he prepares to become senior coach.

What a bloody concept.

Garlett Hogan JKH

Howe Dawes Watts

That line up could prove dangerous but needs everyone fit. Can Watts handle one of the top 2 opposition defenders? We need Dawes to play like he did against Adelaide last year every week. Is Howe's best position up forward? We keep forgetting this is Hogans first year. How would we look without Garlett?

Just curious, are the people doubting Roos the same people that said how we now have so much depth three weeks ago?

And here lies the problem. We don't get the ball inside 50 nearly enough. You attack as a team and you defend as a team. Our attack was pathetic last year, and NO, not just the forwards. Our attack so far this year has been underwhelming, despite dominating possession.

That is a discussion point about the coach.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

It's a healthy debate to have.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

And here lies the problem. We don't get the ball inside 50 nearly enough. You attack as a team and you defend as a team. Our attack was pathetic last year, and NO, not just the forwards. Our attack so far this year has been underwhelming, despite dominating possession.

That is a discussion point about the coach.

We don't get it in there enough... yet. Roos has stated he went hardcore on the defensive side of things which was always going to hinder how we went going forward. He deserves more than a few pre-season games before we judge it too harshly.

[T&W 38]

I don't think anyone doubts the size of the task Roos took on last year. However he is not under the same pressure as other coaches are as he is on defined tenure and is virtually immune to performance measures. This is a good thing IMO because he can experiment over his tenure with no fear. His success will be inevitably be measured in the team he hands over to Goodwin. Unfortunately for the supporters this is not necessarily the same measure of success we want. Wins and ladder position matter to the average punter. We need to see some degree of improvement and according to my mates (various team supporters) after the Essendon game (and a lesser extent the Dogs fade out) even though they were practice matches we have not improved. They also delight in reminding me that we set the last 2 NAB games up as "our Round 1" suggesting we were not treating them as friendlies.

My only query on Roos approach thus far is why he has not been to one Casey game? I know he would get down the ground vision and possible full ground tapes but as we all know no amount of vision replaces being at the ground. I would have thought a new coach intent on changing the culture would be keen on evaluating all his resources and not relying on other to provide him with their opinion. I go to a fair few VFL games and you always see the other AFL coaches including their support staff and many of the firsts. Never saw Roos at a Casey game and have had it confirmed that he only views tapes of Casey games. Personally I think its a flaw but then I am not an AFL coach and he does have the pedigree.

I am loathe to criticise players because I simply do not know what their specific instructions are. I often wonder why certain players do things but expect that if it is that obvious to me and they don't act as I would then they must have certain instructions that stop them from doing the obvious. It hass happened to me in my own career ("don't go past the forward 50" "drop back on the resting ruckman" or "wear no x and forget the ball". After all they have made it to the big time and I didn't. I do get annoyed at basic skill errors but I see all players make them and I certainly make mistakes in my job without some 6 and a half foot gorilla (or Messerschmidt) on my back about to kill me.

I hear what you are saying. However, Roos seems to have this amazing ability with his fellow MFC staff at all levels. He seems to have this excellent ability to delegate and get people to work for and with him. I think he has the ability to place his trust in others and he gets rewarded 10 fold in return.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

Melbourne are too slow to pull the trigger going forward, first instinct is sideways and backwards. I hope this isn't a result of the coaching.

We're too hesitant all round - even going sideways to switch the play, if you just do it quickly instead of hesitating and thinking about it it will open up the play and allow you to move the ball forward quickly. Hesitate even for a second and players run back, fill space and make it impossible to move the ball forward with any kind of efficiency.

[Samael 560]

I hear what you are saying. However, Roos seems to have this amazing ability with his fellow MFC staff at all levels. He seems to have this excellent ability to delegate and get people to work for and with him. I think he has the ability to place his trust in others and he gets rewarded 10 fold in return.

I think that Roos relying on his other staff would be fine if he had been around for a few years but to my way of thinking he is trying to change the culture and to have a number of listed players running around in the magoos and not bothering to even go and watch them was a mistake on a couple of levels.

Firstly PR could not possibly know the match day player, just the training player and if you look at Garlett as a for instance the two are very dis-similar.

Footy is a confidence game so just imagine a young bloke being picked in the Casey team for whatever reason, and knowing that your boss is not even bothering to watch. How would that effect (or affect) your mindset? I think it would be very disheartening but that may just be the way I am wired.

Apparently the Casey coach was playing a different style than Roos' game plan (it was reported thus) and he should have at least been confirming that his charges were being coached in his style. That in itself must have been confusing to the players impacted.

I hope with the new players that he has this year, that he gets more personally involved, particularly with a new coach at Casey.

[T&W 38]

I think that Roos relying on his other staff would be fine if he had been around for a few years but to my way of thinking he is trying to change the culture and to have a number of listed players running around in the magoos and not bothering to even go and watch them was a mistake on a couple of levels.

Firstly PR could not possibly know the match day player, just the training player and if you look at Garlett as a for instance the two are very dis-similar.

Footy is a confidence game so just imagine a young bloke being picked in the Casey team for whatever reason, and knowing that your boss is not even bothering to watch. How would that effect (or affect) your mindset? I think it would be very disheartening but that may just be the way I am wired.

Apparently the Casey coach was playing a different style than Roos' game plan (it was reported thus) and he should have at least been confirming that his charges were being coached in his style. That in itself must have been confusing to the players impacted.

I hope with the new players that he has this year, that he gets more personally involved, particularly with a new coach at Casey.

Fair call - I cant talk about PR from a Casey stand point ( I dont follow Casey ) so I have to take what you say on face value. But if you ever get the chance to chat with him - bring it up - Im sure you will get a fair hearing and a quality explanation. Dont be scared to approach him - he wont bite - he is one of the most approachable coaches I've ever met.

[Samael 560]

Fair call - I cant talk about PR from a Casey stand point ( I dont follow Casey ) so I have to take what you say on face value. But if you ever get the chance to chat with him - bring it up - Im sure you will get a fair hearing and a quality explanation. Dont be scared to approach him - he wont bite - he is one of the most approachable coaches I've ever met.

Not my style and I don't think I have the "cred" to question any coach at this level. Just a view I have.

[CBDees 3,167]

Not my style and I don't think I have the "cred" to question any coach at this level. Just a view I have.

As regards the Casey alignment, I think that you might find that the coaching is more integrated than you realise. Not only is the senior coach, Plapp, on the payroll of the MFC but assistant (playing) coach, Shannon Brynes and Line coach, Brad Miller, both former MFC players are also paid by MFC. With some of the MFC pre-season practice matches and training sessions involving Casey players and with half the Casey team each week comprising MFC players and rookies, I am sure that Roos and Goodwin are managing it closely to see that the respective game plans closely align. I could be wrong about this and maybe KC may like to either confirm or refute this?

[T&W 38]

Not my style and I don't think I have the "cred" to question any coach at this level. Just a view I have.

No problems. Sounds like your a good Dee at heart and only expressing a view for the betterment of the club.

[Gator 18,050]

I am sure that Roos and Goodwin are managing it closely to see that the respective game plans closely align. I could be wrong about this and maybe KC may like to either confirm or refute this?

Goodwin was there on Saturday and was seen having the odd chat to players, including Brayshaw, from beyond the fence near the "dugout" when they came off on rotation.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Roos made mention in his season launch speech that he was at the Casey game on the weekend.

[Machsy 2,858]

Or perhaps it's just the consensus opinion.

People judge players based on what they see in games, not what they read on here.

That's not always true...

[hardtack 10,998]

What irritates me about this thread is the fact that joeboy opens it with a simple "Discuss" and then slips out the back door never to be heard from again while everyone else gets stuck into each other; the irritating part is that we all get sucked in by such threads every time.

Here's my three word review of joeboy's effort: A cunning stunt!

[old dee 24,040]

What irritates me about this thread is the fact that joeboy opens it with a simple "Discuss" and then slips out the back door never to be heard from again while everyone else gets stuck into each other; the irritating part is that we all get sucked in by such threads every time.

Here's my three word review of joeboy's effort: A cunning stunt!

Spot on Hardtack this must be the most unneeded thread on here.

The coach took over a VFL side and he is trying to dragged it into a 21st century AFL side.

It is going to take 5 years to affect that change.

So I will consider blaming the coach around August 2017 if the performances are still poor

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

It's too strong to say Roos deserves "blame" however I don't think anyone is faultless so there are clearly going to be elements of his coaching up for discussion.

[Grapeviney 9,916]

That's not always true...

Ok then.

Most posters judge players based on what they see in games, not what they read on here - except Machsy

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,481]

What irritates me about this thread is the fact that joeboy opens it with a simple "Discuss" and then slips out the back door never to be heard from again while everyone else gets stuck into each other; the irritating part is that we all get sucked in by such threads every time.

Here's my three word review of joeboy's effort: A cunning stunt!

The old slip out the back door trick.

[LegsLeoncelli 162]

A cunning stunt!

Wow, try saying that 3 times fast.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,401]

If and when we lose to the Dogs in round 8 and cop our 18th loss in a row, is when I'd probably start blaming the coach.

[Nasher 33,628]

Ok then.

Most posters judge players based on what they see in games, not what they read on here - except Machsy

Obviously people base their opinion on what they see, but in my mind it's completely beyond doubt that most people just see what they want to see and very, very few footy observers are capable of being truly objective. I include myself in this.