THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[sue 8,434]

But it is not a win for the AFL as Sue suggests. I would have thought it is in the interests of the AFL, and Australian football in general to get this over as soon as possible. All this carry on just delays it, and delays the day when the competition will return to normal.

There is no advantage to ESSENDON in delaying this, in spite of what some on here argue. They get no advantage in so called "developing their list" because they will start from a hell of a way back once this is completed, a situation they will take e decade or more to recover from.

D14, you assume that the players won't play between now and the intervention of WADA and that that will happen by July. I'm assuming they will play and WADA's intervention will take a lot longer. Neither of us knows for sure.

And yes, I also think it is in the interests of the AFL and Essendon to get this over and done with. But I'm not sure EFC sees it that way. Of course they will take a long time to recover, but a delay allows them time to develop new young players, trade others in while still fielding a team which is not a complete basket case during this process. That is a (minor) win for the AFL compared with EFC playing the same team (plus 8 players) they use in the NAB cup all year. Surely. (once again I'm assuming the players play while all this goes on.)

In rebuilding they'd be in no worse a position than the Suns or GWS, probably a lot better, especially if the AFL bails them out with draft picks in a few years (as they probably will).

Edited February 15, 2015 by sue

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

But it is not a win for the AFL as Sue suggests. I would have thought it is in the interests of the AFL, and Australian football in general to get this over as soon as possible. All this carry on just delays it, and delays the day when the competition will return to normal.

There is no advantage to ESSENDON in delaying this, in spite of what some on here argue. They get no advantage in so called "developing their list" because they will start from a hell of a way back once this is completed, a situation they will take e decade or more to recover from.

When they are found guilty and the massive bans are in place.

I am sure that the AFL will also ban them from taking part in the draft for 2 years.

If they did that to Adelaide for Salary Cap breaching, what will they do to the Essendrugs for trying to cheat the system.?

[binman 38,292]

At the end of the day it makes no difference what the AFL does. Any penalties are ultimately in the hands of WADA even though local sporting judicial tribunals hand out the initial finding. Any playing dead by the AFL is therefore ultimately superfluous.

You've said a number of times that if the AFL go easy in terms of sentencing ASADA and then WADA will appeal and enforce longer ones. However that view is contradicted by the decision by WADA to tick off the penalties for Cronulla, penalties that were very light (six months i think). Whilst they admitted guilt and cooperated 6 months for use of banned drugs is pretty light by any measure, particularly given they will hardly miss a game.

It is worth noting that the Cronulla players were less able to argue they were duped as they did not go to the lengths ess players did to get assurances what they were being administered was legal. As i understand it the standard penalty is 2 years, halved for cooperation and admitting guilt. Its only 12 months (and by extension 6 for cooperation ect) if they successfully argue they were duped.

[Fork 'em 6,513]

Latest from Titus O'Reily: AFL announce the Essendon v St Kilda NAB Challenge match to have the Benny Hill music played throughout.

Been listening to that tune while we play for years.

[Dees2014 2,377]

You've said a number of times that if the AFL go easy in terms of sentencing ASADA and then WADA will appeal and enforce longer ones. However that view is contradicted by the decision by WADA to tick off the penalties for Cronulla, penalties that were very light (six months i think). Whilst they admitted guilt and cooperated 6 months for use of banned drugs is pretty light by any measure, particularly given they will hardly miss a game.

It is worth noting that the Cronulla players were less able to argue they were duped as they did not go to the lengths ess players did to get assurances what they were being administered was legal. As i understand it the standard penalty is 2 years, halved for cooperation and admitting guilt. Its only 12 months (and by extension 6 for cooperation ect) if they successfully argue they were duped.

Cronulla is totally different on a number of fronts. First, the doping was not systematic and was not team based. Secondly, it lasted a matter of weeks rather than the whole season and more. Thirdly, when found out they did not contest, but rather admitted guilt and by doing so gave themselves permission to negotiate a settlement.

Hird and Little have consistently said they will never admit guilt nor will they allow any of their players to do so. Whilst this maybe breaking down, particularly of ex ESSENDON players now in other clubs, the core EFC group will stick I think to the Hird line and take the consequences which will come from ASADA and WADA.

It is a measure of the selfishness and sociopathic tendencies of Hird that this is allowed to happen. It need not, but it seems there is no way that our God like delusion that is James Hird will see the approaching reality.

It is just this sort of delusional behaviour that WADA wants to stamp out. And all power to them I say.

[Satan 2,743]

Been listening to that tune while we play for years.

Do we get a chase at the end of the match?

[binman 38,292]

Cronulla is totally different on a number of fronts. First, the doping was not systematic and was not team based. Secondly, it lasted a matter of weeks rather than the whole season and more. Thirdly, when found out they did not contest, but rather admitted guilt and by doing so gave themselves permission to negotiate a settlement.

That is all well and good and of course there are differences but the fact remains that the Cronulla players admitted taking banned PEDs. In comparison to the sentences many athletes have received in the last few years (eg the ones WJ listed above) 6 months is extremely generous.

Wade Lees cops 18 months for inadvertently importing a supplement with a banned ingredient which he never even used. Ahmad Saad 18 months (and ASADA wanted more) for an inadvertent single use use of a banned PED in a protein drink. Both missed whole seasons of footy.

The Cronulla players used illegal PEDs on multiple occasions and get 6 months and miss bugger all games. Fair? i don't think so. Sending a powerful message/disincentive? I don't think so

If WADA were so hot to trot on making sure players copped their fair wack and laying down a marker then surely they would not have let the penalties Cronulla negotiated through to the keeper. Yet that is precisely what they did.

I call [censored] on the whole WADA are the tough guys who will reign down vengeance on EFC palaver you are spinning.

Edited February 15, 2015 by binman

[Dees2014 2,377]

That is all well and good and of course there are differences but the fact remains that the Cronulla players admitted taking banned PEDs. In comparison to the sentences many athletes have received in the last few years (eg the ones WJ listed above) 6 months is extremely generous.

Wade Lees cops 18 months for inadvertently importing a supplement with a banned ingredient which he never even used. Ahmad Saad 18 months (and ASADA wanted more) for an inadvertent single use use of a banned PED in a protein drink. Both missed whole seasons of footy.

The Cronulla players used illegal PEDs on multiple occasions and get 6 months and miss bugger all games. Fair? i don't think so. Sending a powerful message/disincentive? I don't think so

If WADA were so hot to trot on making sure players copped their fair wack and laying down a marker then surely they would not have let the penalties Cronulla negotiated through to the keeper. Yet that is precisely what they did.

I call [censored] on the whole WADA are the tough guys who will reign down vengeance on EFC palaver you are spinning.

Well we will see I guess. Cronulla was bad yes, but nothing like ESSENDON. I have said all along that Evans and his advisers (PR and legal, with the support of the AFL) were moving towards a negotiated settlement which ASADA and WADA would have allowed in 2013. Hird and Little's coup scarpered all of that and then made it into a contest in the civil courts. This is just about the worst way to deal with WADA/ASADA because it makes it into a legal contest and there is no room for negotiation ( not unlike many legal cases).

It has left the official bodies responsible for enforcing penalties for drug taking no choice but to enforce the letter of the law (or at least the WADA code). You can call what I am saying nonsense if you like - let's see what happens, I am very confident I am right and what I say is very firmly based from very reliable.sources.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Dees2014

[binman 38,292]

Well we will see I guess. Cronulla was bad yes, but nothing like ESSENDON. I have said all along that Evans and his advisers (PR and legal, with the support of the AFL) were moving towards a negotiated settlement which ASADA and WADA would have allowed in 2013. Hird and Little's coup scarpered all of that and then made it into a contest in the civil courts. This is just about the worst way to deal with WADA/ASADA because it makes it into a legal contest and there is no room for negotiation ( not unlike many legal cases).

It has left the official bodies responsible for enforcing penalties for drug taking no choice but to enforce the letter of the law (or at least the WADA code). You can call what I am saying nonsense if you like - let's see what happens, I am very confident I am right and what I say is very firmly based from very reliable.sources.

Yes i get that EFC were worse than Cronulla and EFC have taken a litigious path that of course will have angered ASADA and WADA. But taking the Cronalla penalties in isolation do you agree that WADA were very soft on them by not appealing the wet lettuce penalties they got away with? And if you do agree what does this say about WADA and their capacity/willingness to ensure appropriate penalties are handed down?

[Melbman2 226]

Yes i get that EFC were worse than Cronulla and EFC have taken a litigious path that of course will have angered ASADA and WADA. But taking the Cronalla penalties in isolation do you agree that WADA were very soft on them by not appealing the wet lettuce penalties they got away with? And if you do agree what does this say about WADA and their capacity/willingness to ensure appropriate penalties are handed down?

This is a good line of questioning and I'd also like to know why ASADA/WADA didn't go hard on the Cronulla players too as it does lessen my confidence that the penalties to Essendon will be inline with international norms for the "crime".

[Gorgoroth 12,325]

I thought due to ASADA pretty much ignoring the Sharks due to the Essendon thing that they got a lighter sentence.

I could be wrong tho.

[beelzebub 22,225]

ASADA were soft on Cronulla and Wada admonished them for it and put them (asada) on notice.....dont you dare offer up that sort of shlt ever again.

And they wont

[old dee 22,877]

Are you absolutely sure bb.

I am not

[Dwight Schrute 16,799]

The sharks cooporated from day one, were 100% unknowing when they did it and clearly weren't trying to cheat.

Essendon seems to be the opposite

[bing181 8,169]

ASADA were soft on Cronulla and Wada admonished them for it and put them (asada) on notice.....dont you dare offer up that sort of shlt ever again.

And they wont

That's my reading of it as well.

[bing181 8,169]

Its only 12 months (and by extension 6 for cooperation ect) if they successfully argue they were duped.

Well yes, but to get that, it's almost at the level of "I was unconscious at the time, I couldn't have known what I was taken". I don't know that in the current case they'll be able to play that card.

I'm expecting 18 months to 2 years. If it's 18 months, and it's backdated to issuing of IN's, it will mean they'll only miss one full season of competition (plus a handful of games), so perhaps not as draconian as it sounds.

[bing181 8,169]

Best post I've seen so far from an Essendon fan on this:

"The Wada code was designed to catch Athletes in Olympic sports so giving an Athlete a 2 year ban won't really destroy them when they only compete once every 4 years."

[Qwerty30 196]

ASADA were soft on Cronulla and Wada admonished them for it and put them (asada) on notice.....dont you dare offer up that sort of shlt ever again.

And they wont

Got a reliable source (eg press report) or is that your opinion?

[deanox 8,629]

Got a reliable source (eg press report) or is that your opinion?

I don't have a link but pretty sure it was in the wada press release I response to the cronulla penalties.

[Satan 2,743]

I don't have a link but pretty sure it was in the wada press release I response to the cronulla penalties.

http://www.northweststar.com.au/story/2655842/mcdevitts-mission-will-have-afl-concerned/?cs=12

"McDevitt's mission to Montreal is partly to repair relations with WADA, which departed from its usual protocol to criticise Australia and make strident commentary on the Cronulla case."

[Dees2014 2,377]

On the face of it what you say is reasonable. Even WADA said after the Cronulla decision that they may have been lenient. But you have to remember that WADA see Australia as beacon of sporting excellence and that includes good governance. At the time of the Cronulla settlement they were prepared to wave it through because they met much of what was sought which Essendon refused, and still refuses to do ie admit guilt, and recognise publicly the major perpetrators. It was also soon after Evans got rolled when ASADA and WADA had been heavily involved in negotiating a settlement with Esendon which would have resulted in this whole thing being over in late 2013.

I can tell you they were gob smacked by the intransigence if Little and Hird, and feel as though they have been left with no choice but impose the letter of the law. In fact, because it has become such a public issue, in no small part to Hird's incessant PR campaign, much of it directed at ASADA their Australia affiliate, they feel it is now a matter of principle not only in Australia, but also in the rest of the world. Basically they figure if someone like Hird is seen to get off because he has the local press on side, and devotes endless millions to the campaign and then gets off, it will render WADA and all their international,affiliates useless in the fight against drugs in sport. It is that important to them, and thank god it is.

We are extremely lucky we have people of such integrity in the governance of drug taking in sport. It could easily be different (think soccer, athletics, cycling, cricket) where there is nothing like that level of integrity. I think we should be applauding them rather than questioning their motives.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Dees2014

[beelzebub 22,225]

Back in your box qwerty

Any idiot bar you could have sourced that but you're an adversial troll. !!

[Dees2014 2,377]

http://www.northweststar.com.au/story/2655842/mcdevitts-mission-will-have-afl-concerned/?cs=12

"McDevitt's mission to Montreal is partly to repair relations with WADA, which departed from its usual protocol to criticise Australia and make strident commentary on the Cronulla case."

Where do they get this nonsense from? WADA has full authority to override ASADA whenever they choose via CAS. I can tell you McDevitt has absolutely no intention of apologising to WADA or anyone else. ASADA has been impeccable in both its integrity and thoroughness in the whole affair, and WADA regard them as a shining light for the world to follow. It is a pity the local critics do not recognise what an excellent organisation we have here, in spite of the government trying to starve them of funds and joining in the Hird campaign of denigration.

[Satan 2,743]

Where do they get this nonsense from? WADA has full authority to override ASADA whenever they choose via CAS. I can tell you McDevitt has absolutely no intention of apologising to WADA or anyone else. ASADA has been impeccable in both its integrity and thoroughness in the whole affair, and WADA regard them as a shining light for the world to follow. It is a pity the local critics do not recognise what an excellent organisation we have here, in spite of the government trying to starve them of funds and joining in the Hird campaign of denigration.

If the article is wrong why has roy not been sued for defaming Mcdevitt.

[beelzebub 22,225]

2014.. appreciate your posts but like a lot of things being too close might blur perspective.

Reality. ASADA under manned and resource poor in Oz. A unique transgression occurs with significant global repercussions. 1st outing ( Cronulla ) result major f up.

Smacked botty and told not to repeat. Wada well aware of what the EFC debacle means.

Talk what you will..and its interesting but Wada got rolled by inadequate local branch.

Edited February 15, 2015 by beelzebub