THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[Gorgoroth 12,959]

Yeah never heard of him.

Interesting to see where this goes.

[jnrmac 20,091]

Never hird of him...

[Buffalo 203]

According to Footywire, he never played a senior game. Probably thought he would if did what he was told!

[old dee 23,792]

Yeah never heard of him.

Interesting to see where this goes.

Was evidently a good junior who suffered lots of hamstring problems.

It would appear he was de listed because he could not get on the park.

[John Crow Batty 8,865]

Was evidently a good junior who suffered lots of hamstring problems.

It would appear he was de listed because he could not get on the park.

What caused him to have those soft tissue injuries I wonder?

[rjay 24,929]

Sorry rjay, but this line of thinking is just rubbish

This is just the modern thinking of diminished responsibility where it is always someone else's responsibility and despiite one's own culpability there is an opportunity to enrich ones self

I just don't buy it

If (and i mean IF) they can prove essendon deliberately misled them they may have a case against them

But the afl.....please.....this is just more victimology and blame shifting

No, as I said the players bare the primary responsibility but I do think the AFL and others have conveniently put their collective heads in the sand. The AFL's record with drugs is deplorable, it just doesn't want to open the can of worms.

There was a certain interstate team who should have been seriously investigated over their first and last premierships and probably somewhere in between.

I think the players should get what's coming and don't believe the duped thing at all. I do think the AFL have also created the environment though.

[jnrmac 20,091]

No, as I said the players bare the primary responsibility but I do think the AFL and others have conveniently put their collective heads in the sand. The AFL's record with drugs is deplorable, it just doesn't want to open the can of worms.

There was a certain interstate team who should have been seriously investigated over their first and last premierships and probably somewhere in between.

I think the players should get what's coming and don't believe the duped thing at all. I do think the AFL have also created the environment though.

I would not confuse the issues. Generaly yes the AFL has been poor on drugs and shot the messenger (Dale Lewis anyone?)

But with the EFC they are in a difficult spot. They can't be seen to be interfering with ASADAs investigation and must wait for it to conclude. That is probablyclouded with their suspensions of EFC from the finals and banning Hird for 12 months etc but broadly they are unable to generate a negotiated solution to tis saga. It is bigger than the AFL and all they can do is support the investigation.

What follows though will be really telling....

[John Crow Batty 8,865]

No, as I said the players bare the primary responsibility but I do think the AFL and others have conveniently put their collective heads in the sand. The AFL's record with drugs is deplorable, it just doesn't want to open the can of worms.

There was a certain interstate team who should have been seriously investigated over their first and last premierships and probably somewhere in between.

I think the players should get what's coming and don't believe the duped thing at all. I do think the AFL have also created the environment though.

Agree with most of that. The AFL as a stand alone sport in a world backwater and never in international competition with associated standards, expectations and scrutiny thought they could do what they want and make a mockery of the PED issue. It was always nudge nudge, wink wink and don't do something stupid and get caught out. Now they have created a monster that's hard to kill. Edited March 25, 2015 by america de cali

[rjay 24,929]

I would not confuse the issues. Generaly yes the AFL has been poor on drugs and shot the messenger (Dale Lewis anyone?)

But with the EFC they are in a difficult spot. They can't be seen to be interfering with ASADAs investigation and must wait for it to conclude. That is probablyclouded with their suspensions of EFC from the finals and banning Hird for 12 months etc but broadly they are unable to generate a negotiated solution to tis saga. It is bigger than the AFL and all they can do is support the investigation.

What follows though will be really telling....

No, I wouldn't confuse the issue. I do think they could have headed this whole thing off before it started though.

Of course we are in it now and the AFL has to stand back, this time there is no deal to be made or anything to sweep under the carpet.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

I wonder if Hunter is doing this off his own bat, or is perhaps a stalking horse for other players, particularly those now at other clubs?

[Lucifers Hero 39,832]

The 'chickens came home to roost' this week for the AFL. It is no coincidence that coaches in junior leagues are giving kids drugs (ice) before play to enhance performance. As if coaches (in general) see Hird get away with it then they will take their chances. A terrible legacy from the Ess saga

If the AFL had taken a tougher stand with Cousins, West Coast Eagles, listened to Dale Lewis, etc etc they may have been able to contain it. The horse has now bolted and young kids who should be playing footy for fun are going to be hooked on a nasty, highly addictive substance.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[daisycutter 29,616]

No, as I said the players bare the primary responsibility but I do think the AFL and others have conveniently put their collective heads in the sand. The AFL's record with drugs is deplorable, it just doesn't want to open the can of worms.

There was a certain interstate team who should have been seriously investigated over their first and last premierships and probably somewhere in between.

I think the players should get what's coming and don't believe the duped thing at all. I do think the AFL have also created the environment though.

i'm not following this logic at all

whether the afl has made mistakes either of commission or omission is a separate issue as to them sharing culpability in a legal (and financial) sense of an individual or club's wrong doing in his employ at eesendon fc. to have any success against the afl they should have to provide evidence of the afl's direct wrong doing and how it was specific to any case in question

if someone (player or club) broke an afl (and contractually accepted) rule then it is hard to hold the afl liable just because they may have been somehow lax in enforcing that rule, or anticipating some possible breach and failing to step in, all in hindsight.

in hunter's case it is further difficult to discuss because we know he didn't receive an IN and we don't know his grounds for suing, only some very loose speculation.

[daisycutter 29,616]

The 'chickens came home to roost' this week for the AFL. It is no coincidence that coaches in junior leagues are giving kids drugs (ice) before play to enhance performance. As if coaches (in general) see Hird get away with it then they will take their chances. A terrible legacy from the Ess saga

If the AFL had taken a tougher stand with Cousins, West Coast Eagles, listened to Dale Lewis, etc etc they may have been able to contain it. The horse has now bolted and young kids who should be playing footy for fun are going to be hooked on a nasty, highly addictive substance.

this accusation of coaches giving kids ice before games, if true, is of course quite appalling

however, i'm yet to be convinced it is true

if it is true why hasn't a coach been stood down and why hasn't the police charged anyone with supplying illicit drugs?

again if there is some truth i'd need convincing it was more than just an isolated case

with social media being what it is these things can take off like a wildfire with little basis in truth

just saying

[Nasher 33,616]

If coaches are giving kids ice before games, then I officially give up on society. Surely, surely nobody is that stupid. Surely.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

this accusation of coaches giving kids ice before games, if true, is of course quite appalling

however, i'm yet to be convinced it is true

if it is true why hasn't a coach been stood down and why hasn't the police charged anyone with supplying illicit drugs?

again if there is some truth i'd need convincing it was more than just an isolated case

with social media being what it is these things can take off like a wildfire with little basis in truth

just saying

Les Twentyman has been touring around the countryside with the backing of the police giving ICE forums to teenagers and parents.

The amount of ice and methamphetamine in football clubs in country areas has reached epidemic proportions.

The twentieth man has been involved with these kids for many years. He cited Ben Cousins with his video as accelerating drug taking in sports. Cousins was the role model for these kids, great footballer was able to party then play. The saw this as the perfect way to play.

[xarronn 380]

The 'chickens came home to roost' this week for the AFL. It is no coincidence that coaches in junior leagues are giving kids drugs (ice) before play to enhance performance. As if coaches (in general) see Hird get away with it then they will take their chances. A terrible legacy from the Ess saga

If the AFL had taken a tougher stand with Cousins, West Coast Eagles, listened to Dale Lewis, etc etc they may have been able to contain it. The horse has now bolted and young kids who should be playing footy for fun are going to be hooked on a nasty, highly addictive substance.

If this is happening, (and I am not suggesting it is not, but daisycutter's post bears some thinking about), it is totally unrealistic to believe that it is restricted to Australian rules. It is clear that ice is an epidemic in many communities across Australia. Why would you think that it is a result of whatever the AFL has done or not done. There is a common misconception that the AFL's drug policy is weak. What many people are referring to is the 3 strikes policy on so-called 'recreational' drugs. Often forgotten is that the AFL had to obtain agreement from the players through the AFLPA to enact the policy. This was not going to be forthcoming unless confidentiality was maintained and the focus was on education and treatment rather than punishment. I understand that the AFL is one of the few, (maybe the only), sporting organisations to do testing on 'recreational' drugs.

Mick Malthouse has spoken about the fact that he had no idea that Cousins was taking drugs when he was coaching the Eagles, what about Ken Judge and John Worsfold after him?

It is an amazing leap of faith to blame the AFL for Cousins, the situation at the West Coast Eagles and that a whole generation of "young kids who should be playing footy for fun are going to be hooked on a nasty, highly addictive substance".

[daisycutter 29,616]

Les Twentyman has been touring around the countryside with the backing of the police giving ICE forums to teenagers and parents.

The amount of ice and methamphetamine in football clubs in country areas has reached epidemic proportions.

The twentieth man has been involved with these kids for many years. He cited Ben Cousins with his video as accelerating drug taking in sports. Cousins was the role model for these kids, great footballer was able to party then play. The saw this as the perfect way to play.

i don't for a moment doubt the widespread use of ice among the young, pd, and i don't doubt they play football

i merely raised the veracity of coaches supplying them to players before a game to "enhance" their performance

as i said, if true, this is an appalling thing for a coach (who i assume is an adult) to do

so, do you have any knowledge that some coaches are doing that

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I don't think the coaches are actually personally giving the drugs to the kids.

More likely they are making them more available to them.

Les Twentyman has reported that some kids got their hands on some ICE that was cut with DRANO.

This made it very cheap but deadly. Two boys died from it in one weekend.

[rjay 24,929]

If coaches are giving kids ice before games, then I officially give up on society. Surely, surely nobody is that stupid. Surely.

It's a big problem 'Nasher', but I'm sure you know this already.

Not sure about coaches giving kids ice but am not surprised players are using the drug because they perceive it giving them an advantage.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Guess that's what happens when the administration of the league itself take such an embarrassingly corrupt, lackadaisical approach to the use of drugs in their sport.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Pardon my naivety, but can someone please explain to me what advantage ice would give a footy player who was under it's influence? I'd imagine it would make them more fearless and more prone to taking risks on the field, but I can't believe it would improve their decision making, fitness, steadiness under pressure or skills in general. And I can't believe it would aid post game recovery or speed of injury recovery. Sounds like a bit of a media urban myth, or at least I hope it's a myth.

Can any doctors in the house provide an expert opinion?

edit: As an aside, I have a friend who's grandmother trained dish lickers in Sydney and became the industry supplier for speed and coke for greyhounds back in the day, around the 1950's. He said she told him that it shortened the dog's career considerably and basically destroyed it's body, but made them run bloody fast for a little while. Surely there are no coaches or club officials in local comps stupid enough to dope players with ice?

Edited March 25, 2015 by Moonshadow

[daisycutter 29,616]

Pardon my naivety, but can someone please explain to me what advantage ice would give a footy player who was under it's influence? I'd imagine it would make them more fearless and more prone to taking risks on the field, but I can't believe it would improve their decision making, fitness, steadiness under pressure or skills in general. And I can't believe it would aid post game recovery or speed of injury recovery. Sounds like a bit of a media urban myth, or at least I hope it's a myth.

Can any doctors in the house provide an expert opinion?

you probably summed up the effects well, moonie

but it's probably not so relevant what is rational. if the users "think" it helps them then that is probably the reality

i personally couldn't rationalise the use of ice even for recreational use but it's obvious that 1,000's do

[John Crow Batty 8,865]

Pardon my naivety, but can someone please explain to me what advantage ice would give a footy player who was under it's influence? I'd imagine it would make them more fearless and more prone to taking risks on the field, but I can't believe it would improve their decision making, fitness, steadiness under pressure or skills in general. And I can't believe it would aid post game recovery or speed of injury recovery. Sounds like a bit of a media urban myth, or at least I hope it's a myth.

Can any doctors in the house provide an expert opinion?

edit: As an aside, I have a friend who's grandmother trained dish lickers in Sydney and became the industry supplier for speed and coke for greyhounds back in the day, around the 1950's. He said she told him that it shortened the dog's career considerably and basically destroyed it's body, but made them run bloody fast for a little while. Surely there are no coaches or club officials in local comps stupid enough to dope players with ice?

The answer in one word is, "expediency". Edited March 25, 2015 by america de cali

[Chook 15,013]

The 'chickens came home to roost' this week for the AFL. It is no coincidence that coaches in junior leagues are giving kids drugs (ice) before play to enhance performance. As if coaches (in general) see Hird get away with it then they will take their chances. A terrible legacy from the Ess saga

If the AFL had taken a tougher stand with Cousins, West Coast Eagles, listened to Dale Lewis, etc etc they may have been able to contain it. The horse has now bolted and young kids who should be playing footy for fun are going to be hooked on a nasty, highly addictive substance.

Blaming the AFL makes about as much sense as blaming Vince Gilligan, Walter White or Gus Fring. It's a societal problem, not an AFL problem.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

I wonder if Hunter is doing this off his own bat, or is perhaps a stalking horse for other players, particularly those now at other clubs?

I work with Hal's mother and she is a force to be reckoned with. It didn't surprise me when I heard he was the mystery player. She hasn't told anyone, it was supposed to be kept confidential. But she is after justice and she will get it one way or another in my opinion.

She was appalled by the way the club communicated with the parents and how her son was off loaded after his rookie contract was up. He had worked through numerous injuries only to be unloaded when it suited the club. She was less than impressed by James H. But that is to be expected I think as a mum. But she is no fool and has not been impressed by the way the Club has handled their players and the issue.

In her view her son has been injected with an unknown cocktail of supplements or whatever they were and then unloaded by the club with no support system in place. You are on your own son. Any wonder Mum might be mad?