THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[daisycutter 29,429]

Damien Barrett is back.

From:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-06/so-much-for-solidarity-essendon

Solidarity. It's all the rage at Essendon on February 11, and out the window by March 5.

Solidarity. It's just a word Essendon chose to shout as it thumped its chest yet again, when it suited it.

Like another word. Truth. Remember that one? Hird told us way back when that when the truth came out, the club would be in a state that bordered heaven.

We've long been aware that we will never, ever, get the whole truth from anyone directly associated with this mess, but we're still waiting on your version of it, James.

you see...

we say purple three times on land...

and guess who pops up on cue

[What 18,810]

Damien Barrett is back.

From:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-06/so-much-for-solidarity-essendon

Solidarity. It's all the rage at Essendon on February 11, and out the window by March 5.

Solidarity. It's just a word Essendon chose to shout as it thumped its chest yet again, when it suited it.

Like another word. Truth. Remember that one? Hird told us way back when that when the truth came out, the club would be in a state that bordered heaven.

We've long been aware that we will never, ever, get the whole truth from anyone directly associated with this mess, but we're still waiting on your version of it, James.

Nice work, Damian.

Keep the pressure and spotlight on their unethical practices They are scum.

[censored] Essendon.

[beelzebub 23,242]

Damien Barrett is back.

From:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-06/so-much-for-solidarity-essendon

Solidarity. It's all the rage at Essendon on February 11, and out the window by March 5.

Solidarity. It's just a word Essendon chose to shout as it thumped its chest yet again, when it suited it.

Like another word. Truth. Remember that one? Hird told us way back when that when the truth came out, the club would be in a state that bordered heaven.

We've long been aware that we will never, ever, get the whole truth from anyone directly associated with this mess, but we're still waiting on your version of it, James.

[ManDee 7,124]

An interesting point. If players are suspended does ASADA/WADA rules allow them to play in the EFC VFL team?

Essendon are doing everything possible to ensure ASADA can't view 'match simulation' games against a VFL club as a practice game. The AFL is fully complicit in this deception!

I just hope ASADA view this as a smolescreen and evidence of more unco-operativeness and refuse outright any plea for any backdating of penalties.

FMD (excuse me for swearing in acronym)

What the hell is provisional suspension? Suspended from what? Other athletes have been banned from training. I suggest that no suspension has commenced to date.

Edit:- AUSTRALIA’s Olympic athletes are already appalled Essendon players potentially found guilty of doping offences might miss just three matches like Cronulla’s NRL players.

The prospect of them playing NAB Challenge then still potentially accepting suspensions backdated to November is even more mortifying.

Surely that is the point of a provisional suspension — you don’t play sport during that time.

Pretty simple, isn’t it?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/afl-must-uphold-provisional-suspensions-given-to-essendon-34-players-approve-top-ups-for-bombers-nab-challenge-fixtures/story-e6frf7jo-1227213767743

Edit 2: From Sports lawyer. http://www.sportslawyer.com.au/wada-compliant-afl-anti-doping-code-severe-in-penalties-on-banned-substances/

Edited March 6, 2015 by ManDee

[Ted Lasso 18,910]

Man Dee the essendon players are provisionally suspended while the trial goes on, this is in effect until they are cleared, clearly it's up for debate what that actually stops them doing but I was under the impression they weren't supposed to even be training officially.

[beelzebub 23,242]

Man Dee the essendon players are provisionally suspended while the trial goes on, this is in effect until they are cleared, clearly it's up for debate what that actually stops them doing but I was under the impression they weren't supposed to even be training officially.

me thinks theyre trying to have their cake and eat it too

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

I feel a bit left out having not contributed to this thread but I probably speak for the vast majority of football supporters who just want this over.

That there are 10 people who have 75 or more posts on this thread since it started less than 3 months ago and BB who has over 250 I'd suggest two things:

• You must be on drugs yourselves to post that much
• You've invested way too much energy into something over which you have no control and impacts another club.

Me, I'm not going to spend my time obsessing over the rules of WADA, ASADA, EFC, AFL or any other relevant body, I'll just look at the result and move on.

But I suspect the major contributors to this thread are like the legal profession itself. They'll be involved and luxuriating in this topic long after the result is handed down and I'm guessing there will be a lot of disappointed people spending a lot of time explaining why experts in the area got it so wrong.

There could also be the sniff of a conspiracy theory.

I'll come back in a week or so time to see if anything has happened!

279 posts in one topic in less than 3 months! FMD.

Oh, and for the record of the very little of the thread I've read it's a credit to those involved. Well researched, well argued and without personal rancour. I just can't believe you care enough or have so much energy!

The exact attitude that both the AFL and Essendon love to see...Just get it over with.

I want justice myself

People forget that a similiar program had begun at the MFC.

If not for the Feb 5 Essendon Press Conference happening our club would have been knee deep in it.

Tanking and supplement scandals together would have killed this place once and for all

I think it is very important for that reason.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,664]

I imagine what constitutes "training" is a difficult concept.

Let's just say, for example, that playing a fully fledged practice match is training but throwing a frisbee is not. Between those two extremes there is a boundary not be crossed. But where is that boundary?

What if throwing the frisbee is replaced with throwing a baseball?

What if throwing a baseball is replaced with throwing an American football?

What if throwing the American football is replaced with kicking an American football?

What if kicking an American football is replaced with kicking an Australian football?

What if kicking an Australian football is replaced with hand passing and kicking an Australian football?

What if hand passing and kicking an Australian football is replaced with a full practice match?

Where's the boundary across which they must not cross?

[Ted Lasso 18,910]

I imagine what constitutes "training" is a difficult concept.

Let's just say, for example, that playing a fully fledged practice match is training but throwing a frisbee is not. Between those two extremes there is a boundary not be crossed. But where is that boundary?

What if throwing the frisbee is replaced with throwing a baseball?

What if throwing a baseball is replaced with throwing an American football?

What if throwing the American football is replaced with kicking an American football?

What if kicking an American football is replaced with kicking an Australian football?

What if kicking an Australian football is replaced with hand passing and kicking an Australian football?

What if hand passing and kicking an Australian football is replaced with a full practice match?

Where's the boundary across which they must not cross?

IMO, if you're provisionally suspended from the AFL you shouldn't be training in an official capacity, they shouldn't be using EFC facilities, can't really stop them from gathering somewhere else and training but if it's official and the coaches are there to me that's crossing the line.

[daisycutter 29,429]

me thinks theyre trying to have their cake and eat it too

how surprising!

how very un-essendon!

[beelzebub 23,242]

how surprising!

how very un-essendon!

me I just want then to get their just deserts !!

[ManDee 7,124]

IMO, if you're provisionally suspended from the AFL you shouldn't be training in an official capacity, they shouldn't be using EFC facilities, can't really stop them from gathering somewhere else and training but if it's official and the coaches are there to me that's crossing the line.

.

I would go further, any sporting activity with other sport people (players or coaches) present. Edit:- Should be banned.

You can run on your own.

Edited March 6, 2015 by ManDee

[daisycutter 29,429]

me I just want then to get their just deserts !!

do you mean banish them to the gobi or sahara desert?

or did your context-checker just desert you

[Ted Lasso 18,910]

.

I would go further, any sporting activity with other sport people (players or coaches) present. Edit:- Should be banned.

You can run on your own.

agreed, it needs to be remembered that these guys aren't accused of something small, they are accused of using performance enhancing drugs and leaving the integrity of the comp in ruins.

[jnrmac 19,931]

FMD (excuse me for swearing in acronym)

What the hell is provisional suspension? Suspended from what? Other athletes have been banned from training. I suggest that no suspension has commenced to date.

Edit:- AUSTRALIA’s Olympic athletes are already appalled Essendon players potentially found guilty of doping offences might miss just three matches like Cronulla’s NRL players.

The prospect of them playing NAB Challenge then still potentially accepting suspensions backdated to November is even more mortifying.

Surely that is the point of a provisional suspension — you don’t play sport during that time.

Pretty simple, isn’t it?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/afl-must-uphold-provisional-suspensions-given-to-essendon-34-players-approve-top-ups-for-bombers-nab-challenge-fixtures/story-e6frf7jo-1227213767743

Edit 2: From Sports lawyer. http://www.sportslawyer.com.au/wada-compliant-afl-anti-doping-code-severe-in-penalties-on-banned-substances/

I guess the logic is that if an Olympic athlete gets a 2 yr ban between Olympics they won't miss out on the games....

[ManDee 7,124]

I guess the logic is that if an Olympic athlete gets a 2 yr ban between Olympics they won't miss out on the games....

Olympic athletes do compete at other meets. To not compete for 2 years often as not ends careers. The AFL equivalent could be Grand finals, but the team must make it first without disqualified players playing. Not competing also means no income, no support. Are you suggesting perhaps that they could play but not finals? No for me no training no competition no help from coaches.

[daisycutter 29,429]

I guess the logic is that if an Olympic athlete gets a 2 yr ban between Olympics they won't miss out on the games....

but that would be true only 50% of the time

[ManDee 7,124]

but that would be true only 50% of the time

And you could argue that the average elite Olympic athlete gets to 2 Olympics. So missing one is equivalent to half a career. Sounds fair.

Edit:-From AFL players association. As AFL players our time as professional footballers is limited with the average playing career lasting about six years.

http://aflagents.com.au/our_services/development_and_wellbeing/career_transition/

Edited March 6, 2015 by ManDee

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,664]

IMO, if you're provisionally suspended from the AFL you shouldn't be training in an official capacity, they shouldn't be using EFC facilities, can't really stop them from gathering somewhere else and training but if it's official and the coaches are there to me that's crossing the line.

I agree. But that boundary has already been crossed. It's the next line in the sand which appears to be troubling.

Perhaps Mick Malthouse was on to something when he talked about crossing the Rubicon. It's a phrase with a definition entirely suited to this saga. I'm just not sure who wants to cross it and when.

[sue 9,058]

Hird-speak from http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-06/james-hird-denies-essendon-bombers-players-have-broken-ranks-in/6286532

"The group is united on that decision and, obviously, we want the identity of those (charged) players protected.

"But we also want the individual careers of players to go ahead."

Obviously only 4 players have a career in need of going ahead.

Here's an idea James: Draw straws and just have one player who has not been charged join the group of 25 whose identity is being protected. Then we'll never know which of the 26 has been charged since there is a possibility that any one of them has not been charged. And more players' careers will be able to go ahead.

Edited March 6, 2015 by sue

[Ted Lasso 18,910]

I agree. But that boundary has already been crossed. It's the next line in the sand which appears to be troubling.

Perhaps Mick Malthouse was on to something when he talked about crossing the Rubicon. It's a phrase with a definition entirely suited to this saga. I'm just not sure who wants to cross it and when.

agree 100%

the tribunal goes to hand out their verdict, on the topic of potential reduced sentences,

the players have trained in an official capacity the entire time despite provisional suspension, two players played a game despite provisional suspension, the entire list threatened to boycott NAB cup despite that being the the first time they would have actually done something consistent with the suspension they are under.

it would be extremely difficult to mount an argument that the players or the club have co-operated with the investigation and respected the process, i don't see how anyone including the AFL could think reduced penalties could possible even be considered.

[jnrmac 19,931]

Hird-speak from http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-06/james-hird-denies-essendon-bombers-players-have-broken-ranks-in/6286532

"The group is united on that decision and, obviously, we want the identity of those (charged) players protected.

"But we also want the individual careers of players to go ahead."

Obviously only 4 players have a career in need of going ahead.

Here's an idea James: Draw straws and just have one player who has not been charged join the group of 25 whose identity is being protected. Then we'll never know which of the 26 has been charged since there is a possibility that any one of them has not been charged. And more players' careers will be able to go ahead.

Well here's another one. Cory Dell Olio....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/former-essendon-player-cory-dellolio-told-to-sit-out-of-wafl-practice-matches-20150211-13c1hi.html

Its pretty [censored] obvious who the players are James. you dingbat..

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Well here's another one. Cory Dell Olio....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/former-essendon-player-cory-dellolio-told-to-sit-out-of-wafl-practice-matches-20150211-13c1hi.html

Its pretty [censored] obvious who the players are James. you dingbat..

Clearly Corey's entire WAFL club should sit out their 'trial game' to protect his identity.\

Oh wait.

[DeeZee 7,347]

This latest fiasco with Hird trying to get away with playing some of his better players with Williamstown and not in the NAB cup is ludicrous....they just keep shooting themselves in the foot...can't stand the cheats.

[biggestred 4,846]

Just saw footage of this "training" session on the news

Umpires

Tackling

Looked full on.

What a diagrace