Patrick McCartin

[Demon Disciple 12,452]

Because he is a better player.

Not when it comes to set shots and kicking in general

[Bang Bang Bang 5,839]

Not when it comes to set shots and kicking in general

This is the line of thinking that saw Jack Watts go at #1.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Not when it comes to set shots and kicking in general

By that bench mark no one would have touched Fev or Cloke

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Compared to our midfield - our forward line is the '86 Lakers...

Is that good or bad? I'm assuming that's good?

[rpfc 28,906]

At least we have a couple of players close to A grade in our midfield, we have nothing even approaching that in the forward half.

Two or three players does not move the needle in the middle - you need a platoon.

You can design a forward line around one good player and good delivery - if you can't get the ball out of the middle and through the middle - what you have in the forward line is irrelevant.

[rjay 25,305]

Not when it comes to set shots and kicking in general

Got to get the ball to kick it.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Two or three players does not move the needle in the middle - you need a platoon.

You can design a forward line around one good player and good delivery - if you can't get the ball out of the middle and through the middle - what you have in the forward line is irrelevant.

Yep, this year's grand final showed this.

Didn't matter how well Buddy played in the forward line, the midfield decided they weren't going to show up so they were soundly beaten.

[Demon Disciple 12,452]

Got to get the ball to kick it.

no point getting the ball if you can't

Wright averaged 12 disposals at 82% efficiency at the Champs, whereas McCartin averaged 8 disposals at 58%.

[dazzledavey36 55,867]

McCartin is grossly overated.

In terms of Key Forward I would much rather Wright.

[Members' Wing 1,106]

McCartin is grossly overated.

In terms of Key Forward I would much rather Wright.

By who? The entire footballing public who knows anything? What are you basing this on?

Everybody who watches junior football rather than basing their opinions on 2 minute youtube clips says he is special.

But you know more?

[rjay 25,305]

no point getting the ball if you can't

Wright averaged 12 disposals at 82% efficiency at the Champs, whereas McCartin averaged 8 disposals at 58%.

McCartin didn't play much footy this year.

McCartin is grossly overated.

In terms of Key Forward I would much rather Wright.

Don't agree with you on this one 'dazzle'.

[Wunders 397]

no point getting the ball if you can't

Wright averaged 12 disposals at 82% efficiency at the Champs, whereas McCartin averaged 8 disposals at 58%.

Full stats below:

Player Mt D K H G M T CL EFF%

McCartin, Patrick 3 8 6 2 2 4 1 0 60.9

Wright, Peter 5 12 6 5 1 4 2 2 82.8

Key points that i take from this table and what i have read:

• McCartin was coming back from injury before champs, Wright wasn't.
• Wright played both ruck and forward.
• Handballs alone pretty much sum up the difference between the players number of disposals.
• McCartin kicked a lot of behinds which are not listed for some silly reason.
• Has anyone reported if the EFF% is only kicking? if it includes handballs then that may also explain the large difference in efficiency.

Therefore, Wright's time in the midfield (as ruck) would increase his numbers. With handballs possibly contributing to the larger number of disposals and the efficiency of these. The efficiency statistic may also be a reflection of their goal kicking efficiency with McCartin's inability to kick straight decreasing his efficiency. But i see this as a positive at least he is having multiple shots at goal (id say he would average 2 goals 4 behinds a week). Wright probably 1 goal 1 behind.

In the end i want an aggressive key forward if we are to draft one i would chose McCartin (i can't make a judgement on who is actually better as i haven't seen either play live).

GO DEES

Cheers

[nutbean 8,838]

Our forward line is fairly average and I don't like stats for stats sake but geez - what a horrible set of numbers they are

We were last for inside 50's in the league by a fair margin. Swans got the ball into their forward half on average 24 times more a game than we did !!

We were last for marks inside 50 by a fair margin. PA took on average 7 more marks inside their forward 50 per game than we did.

We were last for shots on goal by a fair margin. The Hawks average 10 more goals than us a match.

I believe we need everything but it is fairly hard to take a mark or kick a goal in our forward half if it is not getting in there.

I'm a believer in pick 2&3 being a mid and a mid. Don't ask me who they should be as I will leave it those more knowledgeable than me.

[Demoneyes 562]

Why? Opinion or do you know something?

I was told quite emphatically that we won't be taking him.

[beelzebub 23,390]

I was told quite emphatically that we won't be taking him.

by who....

go on...give us a riddle......been a while

[Demoneyes 562]

My wife

[Members' Wing 1,106]

From Paige Cardona's recent Phantom Draft:

A player of Patrick McCartin’s standing is unlikely to slip past Melbourne’s compensation pick here at pick three, and there are plenty of reasons why. Touted as the number one pick for the majority of the year, McCartin could be the perfect partner in crime alongside Jesse Hogan, laying the foundations for the Demons’ forward line for the next decade. McCartin is a genuine, old-fashioned full forward. He busts through packs, takes big contested grabs, inspires with his courage and is always the source of headaches for the opposition. He likes to treat opposition players as if he were going ten pin bowling: he has no regard for his own safety, and his aggression and physicality goes unmatched. McCartin relishes body-on-body contact, and is near unbeatable nor moveable one-on-one. He loves to drag his opponent to the goal square where he puts his contested marking ability to full use, but his quick turn of foot and smart leading patterns means that he is a focal target up forward, capable of taking any opposition’s best defender. Hampered by small injuries throughout the year, McCartin hasn’t gotten the love or hype he deserves, which is great news for Melbourne fans.

Seems like he would complement Hogan really well too with Hogan being more of a mobile CHF type and McCartin as an inside 50 player.

[Moneider96 1,045]

From Paige Cardona's recent Phantom Draft:

A player of Patrick McCartin’s standing is unlikely to slip past Melbourne’s compensation pick here at pick three, and there are plenty of reasons why. Touted as the number one pick for the majority of the year, McCartin could be the perfect partner in crime alongside Jesse Hogan, laying the foundations for the Demons’ forward line for the next decade. McCartin is a genuine, old-fashioned full forward. He busts through packs, takes big contested grabs, inspires with his courage and is always the source of headaches for the opposition. He likes to treat opposition players as if he were going ten pin bowling: he has no regard for his own safety, and his aggression and physicality goes unmatched. McCartin relishes body-on-body contact, and is near unbeatable nor moveable one-on-one. He loves to drag his opponent to the goal square where he puts his contested marking ability to full use, but his quick turn of foot and smart leading patterns means that he is a focal target up forward, capable of taking any opposition’s best defender. Hampered by small injuries throughout the year, McCartin hasn’t gotten the love or hype he deserves, which is great news for Melbourne fans.

Seems like he would complement Hogan really well too with Hogan being more of a mobile CHF type and McCartin as an inside 50 player.

Next time someone decides to compare McCartin to Watts or Cook, read this....

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Demonland is a place in which supporters can pretend to be draft gurus based on limited footage/highlights of players.

Save yourselves the time for those who continue to belittle posters who are sharing their views on players based on limited video footage. Everyone on the forum is aware that nobody is an expert. Everyone.

We'll see soon enough whether McCartin is the real deal or not.

I will now share my expert opinion...

Given that this draft isn't particularly strong and there are no standout unbelievable forwards, it's hard to judge where McCartin stands in comparison to the Hogans and Danihers of previous drafts.

But, based on the very limited footage I've seen of him, here's what worries me about McCartin as a player.

- He has diabetes and doesnt look too fit

- For a one-dimensional old school full-forward, the fact that his goal kicking isn't a strength is a major concern for me.

- I haven't heard anything about his leadership skills or professional attitude from a young age, which for where the MFC are at the present time, is a number one pre-requisite.

I will be unbelievably surprised if we select him for where our team is at the moment. We don't need him. He is not the once in a generation forward that we could potentially be missing out on.

The MFC need two midfielders who have captained their respective sides, are workaholics, self-driven die hards who will do anything to be the very best. Two mids who possess a number of attributes. They must have skill. They must be able to win and have the desire to win their own ball.

That is what we need if we are going to survive as a club.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

My wife

Well we know she does the bar-b-queing for you clit!

[Demoneyes 562]

Well we know she does the bar-b-queing for you clit!

You just love getting that word in don't you BBO?

[rjay 25,305]

Demonland is a place in which supporters can pretend to be draft gurus based on limited footage/highlights of players.

Save yourselves the time for those who continue to belittle posters who are sharing their views on players based on limited video footage. Everyone on the forum is aware that nobody is an expert. Everyone.

We'll see soon enough whether McCartin is the real deal or not.

I will now share my expert opinion...

Given that this draft isn't particularly strong and there are no standout unbelievable forwards, it's hard to judge where McCartin stands in comparison to the Hogans and Danihers of previous drafts.

But, based on the very limited footage I've seen of him, here's what worries me about McCartin as a player.

- He has diabetes and doesnt look too fit

- For a one-dimensional old school full-forward, the fact that his goal kicking isn't a strength is a major concern for me.

- I haven't heard anything about his leadership skills or professional attitude from a young age, which for where the MFC are at the present time, is a number one pre-requisite.

I will be unbelievably surprised if we select him for where our team is at the moment. We don't need him. He is not the once in a generation forward that we could potentially be missing out on.

The MFC need two midfielders who have captained their respective sides, are workaholics, self-driven die hards who will do anything to be the very best. Two mids who possess a number of attributes. They must have skill. They must be able to win and have the desire to win their own ball.

That is what we need if we are going to survive as a club.

If I judge him from what I saw of his 2013 form he stands up very well against the other forwards around his age. To me he was much more impressive then Boyd or Paton and as Paige said he is very aggressive hence my thoughts of him reminding me of 'Plugger'.

McCartin and Hogan would make a few backs feel a bit uneasy.

I won't be upset if we take him, we will have good reason if we do. If we don't I'm sure we will still get a good player.

[Earl Hood 6,142]

You just love getting that word in don't you BBO?

Hey weren't you two on the other "not the B&S thread? Or have I had one red too many tonight?

[DeeSpencer 26,273]

Demonland is a place in which supporters can pretend to be draft gurus based on limited footage/highlights of players.

Save yourselves the time for those who continue to belittle posters who are sharing their views on players based on limited video footage. Everyone on the forum is aware that nobody is an expert. Everyone.

We'll see soon enough whether McCartin is the real deal or not.

I will now share my expert opinion...

Given that this draft isn't particularly strong and there are no standout unbelievable forwards, it's hard to judge where McCartin stands in comparison to the Hogans and Danihers of previous drafts.

But, based on the very limited footage I've seen of him, here's what worries me about McCartin as a player.

- He has diabetes and doesnt look too fit

- For a one-dimensional old school full-forward, the fact that his goal kicking isn't a strength is a major concern for me.

- I haven't heard anything about his leadership skills or professional attitude from a young age, which for where the MFC are at the present time, is a number one pre-requisite.

I will be unbelievably surprised if we select him for where our team is at the moment. We don't need him. He is not the once in a generation forward that we could potentially be missing out on.

The MFC need two midfielders who have captained their respective sides, are workaholics, self-driven die hards who will do anything to be the very best. Two mids who possess a number of attributes. They must have skill. They must be able to win and have the desire to win their own ball.

That is what we need if we are going to survive as a club.

Good job describing Scully and Trengove almost to a tee. That worked out weel. Scully was so self-driven he drove himself to Western Sydney. Not far off describing Toumpas either.

Hodge, Rioli, Hawkins, Christensen. There's been plenty of youngsters come in lately with high skinfolds and turn in to very good footballers. The key is to recognise they are just kids who play footy not athletes, but to believe in them that they will mature. Country kids at boarding school are often the ones with high skin folds but who also just thrive in footy clubs as they are self made types.

Really I'd be judging McCartin on whether he'll have the speed, size, strength and ability to get to the ball and take marks. Character is certainly important, but at some stage we just have to get the talent in and back ourselves. There's enough things to worry about with McCartin's footy before you overanalyse him I think.

[Earl Hood 6,142]

Good job describing Scully and Trengove almost to a tee. That worked out weel. Scully was so self-driven he drove himself to Western Sydney. Not far off describing Toumpas either.

Hodge, Rioli, Hawkins, Christensen. There's been plenty of youngsters come in lately with high skinfolds and turn in to very good footballers. The key is to recognise they are just kids who play footy not athletes, but to believe in them that they will mature. Country kids at boarding school are often the ones with high skin folds but who also just thrive in footy clubs as they are self made types.

Really I'd be judging McCartin on whether he'll have the speed, size, strength and ability to get to the ball and take marks. Character is certainly important, but at some stage we just have to get the talent in and back ourselves. There's enough things to worry about with McCartin's footy before you overanalyse him I think.

You are confirming even more my thoughts that the whole thing is a lottery. If as you say they were the attributes of Scully and Trengove, well what other criteria can you go on when you are picking at the pointy end of the draft. Has the whole industry just analysed itself into an ever decreasing circle so it is now making poor decisions in picking the best prospects?

Jon Anderson's article in the Hun last Sunday on the draft compared the actual first three picks in drafts since 2001 with who he nominated as the best three actual outcomes. It was interesting to note that in the earlier years 2001 through to 2005 those selected 1,2,3 were close to the best 3 players produced in that draft. Then from around 2006 it all starts to deviate with the early picks. Kreuser, Scully, Watts, etc versus late picks like Beams, Fyfe, Shuey, Darling on and on we go and throw in Selwood and Rioli.

The recruiters are supposed to know more now than ever before but our blokes, anyway are still struggling.