WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - HERITIER LUMUMBA

[Dr. Gonzo 24,467]

You are a creep. How dare you infer that from what I said. No wonder you support Lamumbas school of hyperbole and over reaction.

You said racism in Australia is not that bad because other countries are worse. I responded by providing an apt example to prove my point that it's bad regardless of how it compares elsewhere I don't see how that makes me a "creep" other than to challenge your worldview that Australia is some kind of tolerant utopia.

[chook fowler 19,757]

The gas chamber comment was unnecessary and in poor taste and you are being guilty of the very same thing that you are accusing others of - making assumptions about my views and values. I repeat you are a self righteous bigot.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Haha you clown - I never said I was offended by it I couldn't give a stuff really about the specific example thats been mentioned, but it's the reality of the world we live in and it's clear this has been repeated behaviour. Sorry we don't live in a world anymore where idiots can hide behind their pathetic attempts at humour as a way to mask their bigotry and racism. I know you probably think somehow your rights are being trampled on by the PC brigade but for those who don't have to put up with idiots in the workplace anymore I'm sure it makes their life easier.

If the only way you can relate to people is by pathetic attempts at lowest common denominator "humour" then it says a whole lot more about you than the people who may take offence - in fact it's likely they're taking offence at your cringeworthy humour than your racism or bigotry.

Haha you're a testy little fella aren't you.

You are pretending that what was written in the CFC rooms isn't found funny by young men to try and substantiate this argument of yours.

The fact is, that humour is appreciated by young lads the world over - if it wasn't then surely it wouldn't have been place on the photo of the players. That was blokes do for a laugh, they take the pizz out of each other.

The comment was not anti gay, it referred to them as looking gay but as there is nothing wrong with that then it's not an insult then is it.

If you don't know this is the case then you must have grown up in a bubble.

Geez you must be one hell of a wet rag to be around - boring as bat shitt to be honest. The classic thing is that in an attempt to argue at any price you're condoning Harry's response to all this, which makes you as much of a drama queen as he is.

[bing181 9,454]

If you live cheek to cheek with45 testosterone driven males things will be said that you don't like. Sometimes it makes sense to pick your battles.

Sure, but that's not what people are saying here.

I don't see too many saying "you were right Harry, what was written on the poster perpetrates stereotypes, and is a put-down, and yes, the club should have acted on it, but perhaps you should have just kept it to yourself".

Anyway, would be more than happy to have him come to the club, he would bring something both on and off the field, and from what I can see from what people who know him are saying, no-one's questioning his professionalism as a footballer.

[Demonsterative 3,021]

I've known plenty of young gay people, including direct family who have struggled to come out, feeling like all the snide remarks and put downs about being gay, the social prejudices, family rejections, etc, which are too much for them and it's easier to hide who you are. The consequences for young gay people I have known have often been disastrous and paint a different picture. I don't deny your own experience Demonsterative, and yours might be true for others, but IMO you only have the right to speak for yourself and not all gay people.

Let's no get this out of proportion and bring in very topical issues into the argument here. I agree with a lot of what your saying Moonshadow. I too experience a lot of this in an era that was more difficult than what it is today. I feel I could speak about this on behalf the gay community too. I also understand that my experience isn't the same as every gay male or female. But many would relate to my story.

The good doctor John dee and bing181 took offence on my wording particularly with saying 'my community'. Well it is my community! The argument gets stretch out that I should not speak on behalf of the whole gay community. Well, that's just plain stupidity to think I was.

But to bring it back to what this thread is about, HL has a tendency to put many ppl off by being way too sensitive and taking politically correctness too far. If he wants to be the voice of the gay community then he needs to engage ppl rather than attacking them. That poster does not lend itself to homophobia IMO. In fact the Collingwood FC have been leaders in this area and should commended for their Community work particularly on Gay issues.

[P-man 13,367]

He was implying that one gay man does not have the right to speak on behalf of the entire gay community.

Which is true, he doesn't. But his opinion carries a hell of a lot more weight when talking about how this sort of humour impacts upon gay people.

I would also add that his response is in keeping with how my gay friends conduct themselves.

H's moral grandstanding is extremely tedious, but I couldn't really care less about that. I care about whether he makes us a better side. I think he would, though not significantly, so it would depend on the asking price.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,378]

The comment in question mentioned the Mardi Gras.

There was no mention of the gay and lesbian Mardi Gras.

I don't see why someone would take such offence about a remark regarding a festival that is celebrated prior to the fasting season of lent.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Actually I do have the right to speak on behalf of my community. I can call it my community as I am very much a part of it. The fact is 'gay culture' is very much about taking the [censored] out of sexuality. It ain't all about that, but it's very much is there all to see.

Does dr John Dee have the right to question me, sure he does. But he can't question my experience.

Didn't question that, questioned your presumed right to represent your own experience as that of a whole 'community'. I'd also question your presumed right to sneer at Dr Gonzo (or to HL for that matter) and attribute motives to him when you haven't got a clue what his experiences are and whom/what he might happen to know or have encountered and had to deal with and so on.

And now, in one post you're claiming you're entited to speak for the the gay community and in another that it's stupid to think you were. Personally, I think it's as stupid to speak of or for a 'gay community' as it is to speak of or for a heterosexual one. Try the fact that, rightly or wrongly, one of HL's issues was about a haircut and lesbians. Do you speak for them as well? What's your entitlement to diss HL for anything he said that might refer to their experiences? And in any case, what's your entitlement to patronise him on the basis of what are after all no more than hearsay remarks?

[Goodvibes 3,596]

In fact, my sexuality has been on the end of some very inappropriate jokes in the workplace, and I have used inappropriate comments about heterosexuality. It's all part of the fun at laughing at and with myself and others. No one is getting hurt. No one is fearful, nor are they angry.

In broader society, however, you just don't know that. Just because you're gay and not offended doesn't mean others aren't. And are people like myself and Harry allowed to be frustrated by insensitive behaviour even if we're not gay?

[Jarka 767]

Sorry to intrude on your....discussion, but does anyone think there is any chance that H will come to Melbourne?

At the risk of discussing football, I think he would improve our team, however I'm uncertain how I would feel about him at our club.

[Guest]

And away we go descending into petty sniping!
I always view this 'my rights are being trampled on because I can't insult people who I don't have contact with' line wheeled out by readers of News Limited papers as tedious as HL's argument that everyone at Collingwood should be given a good ducking for being morally reprehensible.

For those who want to wheel out the moral equivalency argument that racism is worse in other countries, I would ask you to look at actual dictatorships where if you do say the wrong thing, you are likely to get arrested or worse. In this country, you are more likely to get a finger wagging at worst or no comment at all.

The thing I love about this crowd who rail about 'getting a sense of humor' is that they seem to think freedom of speech works one way. That is they can bang on about whatever they like and everyone has to just lump it. What they don't realize is that freedom of speech comes with the responsibility to receive free speech back. I believe HL exercised that right. He and other people like him are not jack booted Nazis oppressing the sexist, racist homophobic bosses at the bank from telling X rated jokes.
That being said, as we get older, we realize that a lot of jokes about race or sexual orientation often do not come from a malicious place. Most of it comes from ignorance. I think Deemonsterative was right to an extent. The best thing you can do is be a good example of the side you wish to promote as you will find that homophobes or racists don't see themselves as bad people (and in many everyday cases of people who display casual racism or homophobia, they on the whole are not). If you tell a person who has never considered the fact that what they are saying might be considered offensive, it will be a shock to the system and the reaction might not be pretty. Therefore, it's best to try to not make that shock too much of a burden to bear.

That also being said, I tried to as best I could in the argument about people seeking asylum in the 'Tony Abbott' thread on the General Board as best I could but you will often find that you will get vitriol anyway (though I might have been a little snide too).
I don't defend that photo or HL's complaint against it. Freedom didn't die because you can't tell gay jokes in the locker room. However, Lumumba might want to remember the old axiom 'you will attract more flies with honey than vinegar'.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

Insensitive people laugh at me wearing Spandex.

[Biffen 12,949]

Insensitive people laugh at me wearing Spandex.

Only when your muffin top(s) hang over your leggings.

[Biffen 12,949]

Sorry to intrude on your....discussion, but does anyone think there is any chance that H will come to Melbourne?

At the risk of discussing football, I think he would improve our team, however I'm uncertain how I would feel about him at our club.

No way Jarka. he's suss.

[Jarka 767]

No way Jarka. he's suss.

Why would you say that?

*And there goes another 12 pages /sigh

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Insensitive people laugh at me wearing Spandex.

Laughing WITH you.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,467]

The only thing that matters is whether he would improve us onfield - I am in no doubt he would others seem to think he might but don't want him at the club for other reasons even though they aren't really able to articulate what that is other than a perception he is a "trouble maker". It's not like he's a Cousins style crackhead I doubt he's going to be a bad influence on the playing group in the same way Sylvia and Moloney were so I don't really see what the problem is.

[Redleg 42,128]

The only thing that matters is whether he would improve us onfield - I am in no doubt he would others seem to think he might but don't want him at the club for other reasons even though they aren't really able to articulate what that is other than a perception he is a "trouble maker". It's not like he's a Cousins style crackhead I doubt he's going to be a bad influence on the playing group in the same way Sylvia and Moloney were so I don't really see what the problem is.

We seem to have dropped off Malceski. That could simply be he has got a better offer to stay and has told us. Whatever, that could be the reason for the interest in HL.

Roos knows we need some pace off half back to set up play and give guys like Hogan a one out chance and that won't happen with slow chip kicks forward.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,378]

Lumumba by Ritchie Valens is one of my favourite songs.

[beelzebub 23,392]

A real concern of mine is the question of whether the hiring of Harry would present as a conflictive recruit amongst our less than established group instead of being a harmonising addition.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

We seem to have dropped off Malceski. That could simply be he has got a better offer to stay and has told us. Whatever, that could be the reason for the interest in HL.

Roos knows we need some pace off half back to set up play and give guys like Hogan a one out chance and that won't happen with slow chip kicks forward.

Nice pun!

[SaberFang 7,151]

A real concern of mine is the question of whether the hiring of Harry would present as a conflictive recruit amongst our less than established group instead of being a harmonising addition.

Fair point but this is a playing group that managed 4 wins for a season. Not sure their opinions hold much sway with Roos in charge.

He'll be doing his due diligence and will certainly ask for input from the leadership group, and Dawes should be able to give a more accurate appraisal than most.

Not dissimilar to the way Sydney handled the Buddy Franklin contract.

[beelzebub 23,392]

Sydney v Melbourne

Resolute v rabble

[Rob Mac...... 643]

For those defending Lumumba because he attacks people being non PC.

I worked in the US with someone similar.

When someone' does something not PC, he uses that as an excuse to really give them a talking down, really tear them apart publicly. He enjoys being superior, oppressing, psychologically bullying the other, and if someone complains he says they're defending the non PC act he's ostensibly riling against, so anyone against him must be guilty of the heinous non PC thing he's pretending his bullying session is all about.

Hope you understood that. Also has to be the center of attention.

Lumumba seems the same. It's a selfish, non team spirited mindset to be avoided.

[bing181 9,454]

Lumumba seems the same.

Go and watch the Dane Swan footage on one of the footy shows where he talks about Harry - and says he hopes he stays. His description of him is the complete opposite of the picture you paint - though you don't know HL in any case, so how the (*&^%$ would you know what he's actually like?

You might also like to go back to the original story - HL didn't "attack people", or attack anyone for that matter. He complained to the club that they weren't doing enough in response to what had happened.

etc etc

My god ... the longer this goes on, the more I hope he comes to the Dees.