She's at it again

[Dr. Gonzo 22,533]

So I suppose you're all going to go after Roosy now yeah?

"MELBOURNE coach Paul Roos believes the Demons are still paying for tanking and says it won't happen again under his watch."

"Tanking has put the club where it is," he told reporters."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-05/tanks-but-no-tanks

Why the hell is he even going there? Roos has done a fantastic job this year but the last few days on his behalf have been horrendous.

[jumbo returns 6,512]

Why the hell is he even going there? Roos has done a fantastic job this year but the last few days on his behalf have been horrendous.

Can I double like?

Roosy's a statesman.

Geez, we need this bloke now more than ever!!

[Whispering_Jack 28,023]

You can spin it anyway you like Jack but it wasn't the Gardner Board that allowed Schwab to build his empire with $1.8 million in admin salaries that Jackson has been able to shed - annually. Imagine what even part of that money could have achieved over his period of management. It wasn't the Gardner Board that was so flush with money that they lent Schwab money for his own use from MFC coffers whilst underfunding the footy department. It wasn't on Gardner's Board that we squandered so many draft picks and completely failed to rebuild where so many others had.

The reality is we were in a poor place when Stynes replaced Gardner and with all the opportunity in the world and more money than Gardner ever had we are just a rabble after 7 years. Stynes, Schwab, Connolly and McLardy missed a golden opportunity to build our club and in fact it's a moot point that they achieved anything positive at all. Along with Richmond we are the only club to fail to rebuild given the opportunity we had.

Synes can blame Gardner, Gardner can blame Szondy, Szondy can blame Gutnick and so it goes on. The further back it goes the less relevant it becomes. I think you are one of the very very few that believe any significant part of our current situation sits with an administration which was replaced 7 years ago.

I could spend all day debunking this extraordinary piece of balderdash but I won't waste anybody's time. It's a topic that's been aired here many times before and we all have our opinions. I'll stick to the one I expressed above and leave it at that.

[P-man 13,239]

My point Scoop is he handled it poorly. Just because we know how bad it was doesn't mean Roos has to throw petrol on the fire with his comments.

"We had a shocking day today etc etc etc...... but it was not typical of the year". That's what he should have said. Because that's right. Roos should have been calming the waters not igniting them.

I think it was a terrible performance by him. I also think his continual reference to "from where we've come from" is unnecessary and overused. His "with no disrespect to those that went before me" just continually highlights how poorly those blokes did.

Don't get me wrong, I still fully support him but like the players, he had a shocker on Sunday.

I think he went further than many expected but it was more a sense of bewilderment than frustration. How else could you really react after witnessing that atrocity? The skills WERE deplorable. It WAS extraordinary.

He did state outright that "our boys are better than that". So he didn't just pot them. He brought into question what causes such a monumental breakdown in skills on the day.

It's really neither here nor there. The list needs a clean out so at this stage saving the feelings of a few players who can't hit a 10 metre pass isn't a big deal in the scheme of things. Roos has been about bringing new standards at the club from the outset. His presser to me was just further re-enforcement of that.

One thing it wasn't was Neeld-like. You never felt like he was going to stab the next person he saw in the hallway afterward. Roos seems very much in control of his emotions and as a supporter that's a very good thing.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

most of the comments on here are just laughable.

[old dee 22,946]

most of the comments on here are just laughable.

Ha ha ha

[Sir Why You Little 34,695]

Roosy is right. This list is damaged goods however you look at it.

The scary part is they are damaged than we all thought. That includes PR..He thought he could turn the damaged ones around...Nope.

15-20 have to go if we are going to climb from the abyss

[Coq au vin 754]

Couple of comments:

1. Caro's article is right. It's not nice but it's right as she is most times. She's been knocking us for years. We've been shocking for years.

2. Schwab, Connolly and Stynes are to blame for where we are now. They employed and maintained an understaffed and skilled FD whilst Schwabby was buying desks and building management mega-structures. Jackson cut $1.8 million from the salary budget this year and didn't impact the FD salary budget, it all came from admin. The mind boggles. And while he was doing this we employed a bloke with no experience to head recruiting when we had low picks in the most critical time of our rebuild.

3. For all I think Robbo is awful and he can't write he's right to question the Roos outburst on Sunday as is Thomas. Our skills were awful but so were Roos public comments. They were just extraordinarily awful.

4. Robbo is right. We've kicked a lower score this year on average than we did last year. FM, concentrate on defence by all means but for all the improvements this is a monumental issue.

5. The myth that it's the expansion clubs that stopped us rebuilding is dumb. There were two years of expansion drafts and we had pick 12 in each. In our two PP drafts the expansion clubs didn't get a pick.

6. The greatest failure of this club was to pick the right players. Put in all the equalization measures you like, the club that has the best recruiting department will beat the others.

7. The over reaction to Sunday is mind boggling. We led Brisbane into the last quarter. We should have beaten PA in our match before that. We, as a supporter group, are disappointed about not winning this year - that alone is a massive improvement.

The media hysteria this week is because Roos FU his post match media conference. The match was awful, the skills were awful but it was not typical of the year to date. After PA he praised the players. After Brisbane he likened them to the worst he'd ever seen. The players don't change, their performance on the day did as did Roos'.

I like Roos but he's not above criticism. He should be taking plenty for the heat he's bought on what he knows is a playing group still struggling with the past. He achieved nothing with his performance on Sunday.

When he puts his head on the pillow at night he knows he FU very badly.

Baghdad Bobbie you are so right. How does his blaming and shaming help anything? Of course he was right in what he said but he shouldn't have said it. His strength this year has been his support of the players and every now and then it all comes together for a win. Rubbishing the players and threatening delisting even if true is not the best way to get the most out of players. It's more like the mark Neeld style.

[Return to Glory 7,779]

I would have thought Robbo needs investigation regarding payments made to a senior Hun journalist from the James Turd camp. Hasn't that conveniently disappeared.

[Ted Lasso 16,930]

I would have thought Robbo needs investigation regarding payments made to a senior Hun journalist from the James Turd camp. Hasn't that conveniently disappeared.

I doubt they had to pay him, I reckon Robbo would have been all too happy to dribble that sort of nonsense

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Roosy is right. This list is damaged goods however you look at it.

The scary part is they are damaged than we all thought. That includes PR..He thought he could turn the damaged ones around...Nope.

15-20 have to go if we are going to climb from the abyss

Which players have been damaged by "tanking"?

[chook fowler 18,332]

I think we have to unconditionally support Roos at the moment. if he can't get us over the current hurdle we may as well give up.

Gary Lyon reacted as a fan and vented as is his right but Roos is more calculated and obviously has seen and heard stuff that makes him feel the tanking issue is still hanging over the club and he wants to deal with it openly and once and for all.

On a positive note this week may be a turning point for all concerned. He basically has said move on or move out.

Can't argue with that.

[chook fowler 18,332]

I think we have to unconditionally support Roos at the moment. if he can't get us over the current hurdle we may as well give up.

Gary Lyon reacted as a fan and vented as is his right but Roos is more calculated and obviously has seen and heard stuff that makes him feel the tanking issue is still hanging over the club and he wants to deal with it openly and once and for all.

On a positive note this week may be a turning point for all concerned. He basically has said move on or move out.

Can't argue with that.

[Sir Why You Little 34,695]

Which players have been damaged by "tanking"?

i think it happens in the heat of battle. The CLUB as a whole has been that bad.

Maybe they try too hard. But it happens to often.

The scars are there. And who knows what opposition players whisper in a pack???

It all adds up

[Guest]

I think we have to unconditionally support Roos at the moment. if he can't get us over the current hurdle we may as well give up.

Gary Lyon reacted as a fan and vented as is his right but Roos is more calculated and obviously has seen and heard stuff that makes him feel the tanking issue is still hanging over the club and he wants to deal with it openly and once and for all.

On a positive note this week may be a turning point for all concerned. He basically has said move on or move out.

Can't argue with that.

We'll see how Roos venting turns out, Chook.

The problem with Neeld was that he tried that before he had proven he could coach.

Roos CAN coach. That has been proven. He has also waited 18 games (plenty of time to make a judgement) to make such a statement, not one game.

I do worry nonetheless that reality may have punched him in the face and he isn't reacting well. As I have said earlier, he never rebuilt Sydney. He more did major renovations. The Swans were a finals team the year before he arrived and were looking at a potential dip that never eventuated. That potential dip was bought about by Rocket Eade getting stale in his surroundings. Rocket wasn't a bad coach. In fact, he was a bloody good one (as he would prove again at the Dogs). He had just gotten overly conservative and it was time to move on. Roosy took a good team and turned them into a great one.

Now, he has a woeful team and he is hopefully laying the foundations to make them a great one. I really do hope that this talk at the start about how 'the worse it sounded, the more interested I got' wasn't for a soundbite because as any long term supporter of this club knows, it really was that bad last year.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[chook fowler 18,332]

Change is always risky and there are always uncertainties and casualties.

Don't forget PJ is around looking over his shoulder and I am sure he will be thinking strategically.

[Redleg 37,906]

Which players have been damaged by "tanking"?

Long term, I would venture to say none.

The player that seemed most upset at the time, has just had his best year and will probably finish 2nd in the Bluey behind Jones. Dunn, for those that don't know who I am referring to.

I think it was a poor statement by Roos and unfortunately he repeated it again today.

We had an extraordinarily poor day on sunday, so did Roos. Shows he is human.

Anyone who thinks Jordie missed that goal because we tanked, or Dawes, who was not on the list then, missed that handball to Blease because we tanked, or Vince who was not on the list then, missed that pass to Blease because we tanked, or Riley, who was not on the list then, passed that pathetic pass to Viney because we tanked, etc, etc, etc, is just kidding themselves.

[Ted Lasso 16,930]

it seems a silly topic to bring up right before we apply for a priority pick, get the tanking stuff fresh in everyones mind and then ask for another pick.

[P-man 13,239]

Long term, I would venture to say none.

The player that seemed most upset at the time, has just had his best year and will probably finish 2nd in the Bluey behind Jones. Dunn, for those that don't know who I am referring to.

I think it was a poor statement by Roos and unfortunately he repeated it again today.

We had an extraordinarily poor day on sunday, so did Roos. Shows he is human.

Anyone who thinks Jordie missed that goal because we tanked, or Dawes, who was not on the list then, missed that handball to Blease because we tanked, or Vince who was not on the list then, missed that pass to Blease because we tanked, or Riley, who was not on the list then, passed that pathetic pass to Viney because we tanked, etc, etc, etc, is just kidding themselves.

Oversimplifying Roos' comments in my view.

The culture of losing has settled upon this club. Sunday wasn't an aberration. Dog performances have become a trademark with the odd quarter here and there bucking the trend, and a couple of quarters sometimes being enough to snag the odd win.

When the culture is a losing one, you can't just overlook a period whereby losing games became a greater focus than winning them. It is surely part of the equation (of which there are several parts) that has led to the club being in the position it is in now.

Roos is getting it out in the open.

Acknowledge it happened. Acknowledge it has had an impact. Move past it.

If he's still making tanking references and talking about mental scarring next year, that's a different matter. But right now he's a premiership coach in his first year at the club, calling it how he sees it.

[KLV 1,664]

Now, he has a woeful team and he is hopefully laying the foundations to make them a great one. I really do hope that this talk at the start about how 'the worse it sounded, the more interested I got' wasn't for a soundbite because as any "long term supporter of this club" knows, it really was that bad last year.

[KLV 1,664]

Oversimplifying Roos' comments in my view.

The culture of losing has settled upon this club. Sunday wasn't an aberration. Dog performances have become a trademark with the odd quarter here and there bucking the trend, and a couple of quarters sometimes being enough to snag the odd win.

When the culture is a losing one, you can't just overlook a period whereby losing games became a greater focus than winning them. It is surely part of the equation (of which there are several parts) that has led to the club being in the position it is in now.

Roos is getting it out in the open.

Acknowledge it happened. Acknowledge it has had an impact. Move past it.

If he's still making tanking references and talking about mental scarring next year, that's a different matter. But right now he's a premiership coach in his first year at the club, calling it how he sees it.

This sounds plausible, as do the comments made by others, indicating the Roos' comments were strategic. Name the elephant in the room.

At the same time, however, I'm dismayed he brought it up, after hearing caro metaphorically rubbing her hands together with glee on 3aw tonight. According to her, which by the way, was backed up by that d'head Dwayne, not only did we tank, " we did it badly" obviously more despicable than those that did it well, - didn't get caught.

[chook fowler 18,332]

If people think that an issue like tanking shouldn't influence a club after 5 years should reflect on the Norm Smith sacking.

Miasma like that can taint an organisation forever.

Roos was very emphatic that tanking was a huge factor in our current predicament and I believe him.

[P-man 13,239]

This sounds plausible, as do the comments made by others, indicating the Roos' comments were strategic. Name the elephant in the room.

At the same time, however, I'm dismayed he brought it up, after hearing caro metaphorically rubbing her hands together with glee on 3aw tonight. According to her, which by the way, was backed up by that d'head Dwayne, not only did we tank, " we did it badly" obviously more despicable than those that did it well, - didn't get caught.

Caro and Dwayne. Together at last.

I have no issue with tanking being mentioned, but I certainly don't think its effects should be OVERstated. There are little things like drafting and player development that may have contributed..

It's the losing culture that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. That was more what I think Roos was referring to. Sunday was a backward step, but the bottom line is we've gone from 2 wins to 4 wins. Next season we aim at 8 wins.

Winning games. Whatever the cost. That has to be the mantra. Play for the now.

[rpfc 27,590]

Criticising the ethos of our rebuilding strategy is absolutely fine. The lack of success of the post 2007 rebuild is obvious, the culture it engendered is less obvious, but no less odious in my opinion.

We got rid of too much experience and talent in the years after that and we bottomed out to a point where we had a very small window to meet to keep the improvement going. And when some stalwarts left after 2010 and 2011, the bottom fell out of the list and married with terrible recruitment (and almost entirely youth, no established pros) and hopeless coaching - the disaster of 2012 and 2013 occurred.

Isolating one game that we were in front of at the final siren is missing the point of why we are where we are. If you think the bottoming out (or tanking) strategy began and ended on that day you are kidding yourself. It started at the end of 2007 and the youth fuelled bottoming out didn't stop until Neeld went after 'established' recruits at the end of 2011. Dawes was his only recruit that panned out and fast forward to Tyson, Vince, and Cross as the most successful recruiting off season in living memory.

Hopefully, Roos can do it again, and we can begin looking forward rather than constantly bringing up the past 'sins' as the cause of present ills.

[Ted Lasso 16,930]

I think the thing being overlooked is that with this terrible list we have still won 4 games against non expansion sides, and been infront in the last quarter in another 6-7

I am very confident there is no issue with the game plan, the personel will be changed up a bit depending on who can deliver consistently on their role

I really want to see what this new development team can do with Trengove, Watts and Toumpas over a couple of years, they could be nothing, or they could be superstars