How upset will you be if we finish bottom

[Deecisive 1,709]

We are trying to compare two different measures of success. Finishing 16th 17th or 18th is not success regardless of how you pretty it up. . Playing more competitive, more accountable football is and that is what Roos has given us. Yes we have not snagged a lot of wins but we actually were close to doing so, we could have won quite a few more games, which is far better than previous years. People can see the improvement. We obviously have some major list overhaul to go through at the end of the year and we need to be competitive in the draft, finishing lower will provide us with better trading power, though it may discourage free agents. For us to win those games next year and the year after we need an improvement to our list and an improvement on the skill levels of our players. This years draft will provide some of the list improvement. As for membership, yes we will loose some members but i think we would loose a lot more if we were getting flogged by 100 points each weak. One can only hope the success that we breed in the next couple of years will give old supporters heart and encourage new ones.

[Sir Why You Little 37,041]

I certainly care whether we finish on the bottom or not.

I am totally sick of it. Said the same thing in 2008-09 in this very place and got shouted down from all angles....& look where it got us??

Players will keep leaving until we start winning.

Fcuk close finishes, they are still a loss. No points.

Winning means rising above the rubbish.

We waste high draft picks anyway.

Toumpas instead of Wines....FFS

[Guest]

Fcuk close finishes, they are still a loss. No points.

I see part of your point but it is a process to getting those wins. Hawthorn and Geelong (when they started their journey to the top) fielded some abysmal teams who took some fearful hidings. You don't get from point A to C without going through B first. You need to be competitive first then you take the next step in winning games that you should.

The fact that we are now in a position to get some Ws as opposed to the last two years where it was more a countdown for supporters as to decide when it would be socially acceptable to leave the match is an improvement.

I also think that if bottom comes this time, the players won't die wondering. In 2008, I will grant you that we were a bloody awful football team and would have finished bottom regardless. In 2009, I won't accept that we were as bad as the results suggested and the players knew it too. Those blokes have a right to feel bitter about what went down that year. Now, I am certain the players have for the vast majority of this year played damn hard but have been found wanting in regards to actual ability (hence why there will be some people let go at the end of the season).

That being said, I too will be extremely disappointed if we get the spoon.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[praha 11,240]

I will be absolutely devastated. Finishing last and below GWS and GC at the same time and after so many high draft picks would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to the club at this time.

The likes of Jones, Watts, Frawley, Dunn, Jetta, Grimes must be absolutely sick of it and they can't let it happen.

The club has to stand up and not let it happen. If it does, it may be very hard for me to get up for next season.

GWS and Brisbane are absolute must-wins. IMO, for the sake of the club moving forward and gaining respect, not finishing last, and holding their own against the Hawks and North are integral in the closing weeks.

Finishing last would be a true indictment on the improvement the team has made, and it would demonstrate just how hard it is going to be for the club to move forward. This is the chance to move forward and that means getting off the damn bottom of the ladder!

The Saints are a legitimate chance against GC. I am not confident anymore going into the Brisbane game. If we are last after the next round, I fear the team will never get off it.

Edited July 27, 2014 by praha

[beelzebub 23,377]

The only way I reconcile myself to Melbourne finishing so lowly ( again ) is as I might see a rose bush after serious pruning...... there's f all left other than a main stem and enough of the correct medium to grow in together with learned nurturing.

[Sir Why You Little 37,041]

I see part of your point but it is a process to getting those wins. Hawthorn and Geelong (when they started their journey to the top) fielded some abysmal teams who took some fearful hidings. You don't get from point A to C without going through B first. You need to be competitive first then you take the next step in winning games that you should.

The fact that we are now in a position to get some Ws as opposed to the last two years where it was more a countdown for supporters as to decide when it would be socially acceptable to leave the match is an improvement.

I also think that if bottom comes this time, the players won't die wondering. In 2008, I will grant you that we were a bloody awful football team and would have finished bottom regardless. In 2009, I won't accept that we were as bad as the results suggested and the players knew it too. Those blokes have a right to feel bitter about what went down that year. Now, I am certain the players have for the vast majority of this year played damn hard but have been found wanting in regards to actual ability (hence why there will be some people let go at the end of the season).

That being said, I too will be extremely disappointed if we get the spoon.

But CBF we have been trying to make point B for 8 years.

With the consolation prize being high draft picks.

Have we moved?? There is a case to say this year we have BUT if we finish 18th out of 18 it is a failed year. Regardless of improved %.

Nobody remembers % on a ladder. Our senior players are so ordinary Good God.

That said if Richmond finish 9th it won't be nearly as painful

[Guest]

But CBF we have been trying to make point B for 8 years.

With the consolation prize being high draft picks.

Have we moved?? There is a case to say this year we have BUT if we finish 18th out of 18 it is a failed year. Regardless of improved %.

Nobody remembers % on a ladder. Our senior players are so ordinary Good God.

That said if Richmond finish 9th it won't be nearly as painful

I hear what you say and I have addressed it in earlier threads.

Whether our players are lazy, unskilled or were hexed by a Haitian voodoo witchdoctor is now irrelevant. In fact, we need to turn away from what happened in those years from 2008 to 2011 and call it for what it was: a writeoff. It's hard to swallow but we did waste 5 years. The blokes recruited during those years who are still here will never be the players we want them to be.

The club needs to look at 2014 as year zero. We are in Sydney Swans (93)/Brisbane Bears (91)/GWS (2012) territory and the club, like it or not, needs to be rebuilt properly this time. Quick fixes will not work and we need people with the courage of their convictions this time to stick around and see the job through (hence why I think Roosy needs to start saying he will stay until the job is done, not he will stay for three years).

However part of a solid foundation is not accepting a spoon under any circumstances. Before this it was almost said by some that we HAD to fail tremendously before we came good. While no one is considering this year a roaring success, the line between not being and being on the bottom is symbolically important.

[markc 975]

i will be extremely [censored] , all the good work gone to waste

i don't care if we finish 2nd last or 3 rd last as no one remembers who finishes from 2 to 2 nd last but first and last they do

[PJ_12345 1,098]

There were three things that I wanted this season...

1) good trades/list management (A+)

2) development (B)

3) 6 to 8 wins (F)

Its not too late to satisfy that last point.

I'd be guttered if we finished last, but I'm very happy with the trades and development so far.

If Roos can back that up again, then I don't mind if we finish with the spoon or less than 6 wins...

[beelzebub 23,377]

Ask any successful person or club or business etc about failure. A common tenet in answering will be that often its just part of attempting to succeed. That often failure in and of itself isn't catastrophic or terminal only the failure to learn from it is. Its how you go on that determines your eventual place in all things.

As with much , hindsight focuses things. The season isn't over yet but its another write off effectively as far as position goes. I go again to the notion of pruning...or if in building and attempting a major remodel you might well take a house right back to a bare frame , indeed taking down anything that wont promote or support growth going forward.

The OP asks how upset will I be if we were to finish last. As such and as yet I have no context in which to place such a finish. It will only gain this in a year or two. If we still languish it will be determined as yet another failed season and all that. If we are climbing and truly competitive then it will inevitably be considered just another hurdle along the road to glory.

So at the moment..I don't really care. It doesn't really occupy much of my thinking. To me unless you're in the 8 every other position is just a finish.

Edited July 27, 2014 by beelzebub

[Demonstone 22,555]

Don't be guttered PJ, it's a drain.

[ijbfossil 77]

Still cannot believe "I don't care" is the highest vote catcher.

Two simple questions:

1. What would Checker Hughes think?
2. What would Norm Smith think?

(they only won 10 of the 12 premierships between them)

[beelzebub 23,377]

Still cannot believe "I don't care" is the highest vote catcher.

Two simple questions:

1. What would Checker Hughes think?
2. What would Norm Smith think?

(they only won 10 of the 12 premierships between them)

I would like to think the players care...its their job all things aside. But how , honestly , is it going to affect you Fossil ? will you lose sleep, will you feel like a pariah amongst society, will you not go out ? Do you paint yourself good or bad as result of your football teams fortunes ( or lack thereof ) ?

its only footy ffs.

I want the club to care, i want it to very much. But for me, life goes on regardless, much the same.

Edited July 27, 2014 by beelzebub

[Return to Glory 8,441]

For mine, we are an improved outfit regardless of finishing spot. If we were to finish bottom it would not tell the full story.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

For mine, we are an improved outfit regardless of finishing spot. If we were to finish bottom it would not tell the full story.

It would be one spot worse than last year.

I don't understand how this is nothing but unacceptable.

Yes we have won more games, but with that so have the other clubs who were down near the bottom.

The bottom of the ladder should be reserved for GWS.

[What 18,810]

the most votes are for 'I don't care'

Absolutely embarrassing bunch of 'supporters' those 22 people are, I wish it was a public poll

[titan_uranus 25,020]

There seems to be a view that you either think it doesn't matter, or you think it's disappointing.

I think both.

Of course I'll be disappointed if we finish 18th. I support a football club and for the third time in 7 years the club will have come last. You cannot be a Melbourne supporter and not be disappointed with coming last.

But on the question of whether or not it matters, for the first time in the last 7 years it doesn't actually matter. Unlike 2008-2009, it's not indicative of how far behind we are. Unlike 2013, we have a foundation. That doesn't change whether we're 18th, 17th, 16th or anything else. We are not good in 2014, but we have the base from which to become good in 2015 and beyond.

So no, I don't think it matters, but I'll be disappointed all the same.

[Macca 16,972]

How many perspective new members, Auskick kids and lapsed members do people think will get on board if we win the spoon?

As opposed to that, how many will get on board if we finish the season with say, another 3 wins?

If you can see a disparity in numbers then finishing last does, absolutely, make a difference.

Now, I also believe that the club has lifted it's game and is going places ... in my opinion, we've had our best year (so far) since 2006 but that's "by the bye" ... it's not really about me.

Jackson made a plea to lapsed or prospective members to have a look at what we served up before getting on board. IMO, those people "generally" want to see wins - and unfortunately, we haven't delivered (yet) Another 3 wins would make such a difference. Doesn't sound like much but it would effectively nearly double our wins tally.

We need to grow as a club and finishing 18th from 18 stifles your growth (especially if you're not a big club)

[beelzebub 23,377]

How many perspective new members, Auskick kids and lapsed members do people think will get on board if we win the spoon?

As opposed to that, how many will get on board if we finish the season with say, another 3 wins?

If you can see a disparity in numbers then finishing last does, absolutely, make a difference.

Id respectufully suggest sfa.

Just see it in the school yard... Zane : Hey Josh...Im gunna barrack for the Dees, they came 16th...woohoo

as opposed Zane's different thinking should we come last !!

This sort of argument applies to teams who have a major and continued impact latter in the season.They are seen as some one to emulate.

The argument ought to be in this context. how many would jump on if we were regular late September combatants as opposed to anything else

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Id respectufully suggest sfa.

Just see it in the school yard... Zane : Hey Josh...Im gunna barrack for the Dees, they came 16th...woohoo

as opposed Zane's different thinking should we come last !!

This sort of argument applies to teams who have a major and continued impact latter in the season.They are seen as some one to emulate.

The argument ought to be in this context. how many would jump on if we were regular late September combatants as opposed to anything else

Of all demographics, I'd have thought little kids are the most likely to put a disproportionate amount of relevance onto the spoon.

[Macca 16,972]

Id respectufully suggest sfa.

Just see it in the school yard... Zane : Hey Josh...Im gunna barrack for the Dees, they came 16th...woohoo

as opposed Zane's different thinking should we come last !!

This sort of argument applies to teams who have a major and continued impact latter in the season.They are seen as some one to emulate.

The argument ought to be in this context. how many would jump on if we were regular late September combatants as opposed to anything else

I notice that you've conveniently left out the lapsed members or prospective members and narrowed the focus down to auskick numbers only. I'd venture to say that 3 more wins would make a difference anyway. But again, it's the sum of all the parts that matters here.

I'd rather broaden the argument even further to ... sponsorship, Foundation heroes revenue, reserved seating sales, Prime time TV games, our fixturing in general, the corporate dollar and other such important areas.

From your personal point of view, I get that you won't be greatly affected. Like me, your rusted on.

But what about the bigger picture?

Edited July 27, 2014 by Macca

[beelzebub 23,377]

Macca...do seriously think it really makes a different to lapsed member that we finish 16th 17th or 18th..??

Theyre lapsed for a very good reason...a couple of spots on the ladder will make no difference. win a game in remainder of year..again, hardly a blimp on the radar.

Get up and about next year.. now that might make some have another look......might.

[beelzebub 23,377]

Of all demographics, I'd have thought little kids are the most likely to put a disproportionate amount of relevance onto the spoon.

kids like winners...we ALL like winners.

some might just like the pretty colours .....or that scary name.. oooh like dem Demons !!

[Macca 16,972]

Macca...do seriously think it really makes a different to lapsed member that we finish 16th 17th or 18th..??

Theyre lapsed for a very good reason...a couple of spots on the ladder will make no difference. win a game in remainder of year..again, hardly a blimp on the radar.

Get up and about next year.. now that might make some have another look......might.

I truly believe that if we finish the season off well it will make quite a difference. We can carry that momentum into next season and that's really important.

On the other hand, if we were to lose our last 5 games and just let things "peter out" then where's the momentum?

I don't believe that last bit will happen anyway - Roos will push hard for wins because he knows the importance of those wins - and, a number of our players are playing for their football lives.

I'm confident we'll finish strongly.

[beelzebub 23,377]

We might still have a crack and still lose all the games...

We could make a mess of all but one game ( and fall over the line and win )

add a few more scenarios. etc etc

Point is its splitting hairs for the many.

I can honestly say what will impress me more about the club is what it does AFTER the home and away finishes more than during the last dead rubbers !!