Casey Scorpions v Williamstown

[dazzledavey36 48,744]

If only T.Viney had his say in that decision, things may have been different.

Anyway, back to the trough for another go

Hang on lets see where the proof is in that. Im not trying to defend Mark Neeld but all we have heard is really is rumours only about Mark Neeld overiding Todd.. There hasn't been any quote or no evidence that Neeld overuled Todd Viney. Edited June 28, 2014 by dazzledavey36

[binman 38,034]

Good review kc. The dees can't afford a stand alone team so the only realistic option is to as you say invest in Casey and make it work. Kc would it work for the dees to take more control and the scorps becoming the Casey demons? It seems to box hill hawks are more integrated with hawthorn. Is that right?

[Machsy 2,856]

I'm not convinced the performance of Casey would be holding any MFC player back, as has been asserted previously in this thread.

I don't see the result or performance of the side as having any adverse effect on the individual players at all.

And I don't see the result as having any real importance to the MFC players.

It's not what their individual performances are judged on, nor what they are told to focus on by Allison et al.

They focus on aspects of their own individual game that are conducive to being effective at AFL level, and that alone.

Adhering to defensive structures even if their teammates aren't, accountability, 2 way running, winning their own ball.

Not the scoreboard.

The fact the Casey side is getting comprehensively flogged and that they are still expected to perform their own role is a good thing.

The MFC players don't get sucked into doing things to win the game that might go against the team philosophy, instead of sticking to their role.

Some say it would be demoralising - well not if you are focused on your own performance and not the result.

As I think they should be.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

KC your review highlights the lack of depth in the talls department up forward anyway. If Chip goes at end of the year and we bring more midfielders we could be in trouble down the track. Reading Dawes in the Age article the other week he didn't instill confidence that his body will see out another 2 years. We will need to draft in another ruck forward very late in the draft at the very least.

[chook fowler 18,228]

KC your review highlights the lack of depth in the talls department up forward anyway. If Chip goes at end of the year and we bring more midfielders we could be in trouble down the track. Reading Dawes in the Age article the other week he didn't instill confidence that his body will see out another 2 years. We will need to draft in another ruck forward very late in the draft at the very least.

Agree. Looks like KC was spot on as usual. The lack for a forward presence is the problem. The stats for the mids seem OK but had no one to kick it to. Points to a draft priority -who knows how Fitz and Spencil will be in the future. Unreliable at best I would have thought.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I get the feeling the coach and players rate toump differently to what the demonlanders do

some demonlanders rate him, just not yet though.

he's not there yet. needs teaching, & learning

[DeeSpencer 23,129]

I know it's there for both teams but I seriously think the wind is a serious problem at Casey.

The conditions are so often horrendous with a gale blowing to one end and in that level footy it really ruins games. They become horrible slogs with the ball trapped in pockets before sailing through for goals or (in the case of Casey this week points or no score).

Whilst there are some stands on either wing there's nothing at either end of Casey and whenever I've been there it's like a giant wind tunnel. I don't know how much it would help but maybe they could at least attempt to plant a bunch of trees at either end or build a few stands just to act as wind breaks.

Windy footy is the worst and it's not a real game in the wind. Our players wont develop battling it out in those kind of games.

[monoccular 16,066]

Freo Dockers are not doing to bad, Peel are a basket case in the WAFL and the alignment doesn't seem to be affecting them. I saw Peel today and their skills were atrocious, the Dockers players worked hard but had no cattle with them and they fell short again. Morabito starred again along with Jono Griffin, Kepler Bradley & Tom Sheridan, but the lack of good quality players to support them was obvious.

The Casey scenario could be the same, it is good to see AFL players putting solid efforts in when the tide is heavily against them. I know several AFL scouts who look hard and take a lot of note on the standouts in the weaker colts sides, it says a lot about a player. Casey making finals regularly didn't seem to transpire at AFL level, so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. How Casey perform is irrelevant once the players come in at AFL level and know the structure and perform at that level.

That is an interesting comparison, Pennant, one that I certainly didn't know and I doubt if too many here do either.

Are the Peel coaching staff in cahoots with the Dockers though? Are they following the same game plan, even if not effectively?

From what I hear, and I haven't seen it myself, there does seem to be some discordance between MFC and Casey battle plans.

[dee-luded 2,958]

One thing I will say is toumpas has lost do much pace since his hip surgery, he used to be genuinely quick, probably Matt Jones quick and loved to run and carry

Without that he really doesn't have a role unless he develops a contested game

this is what he's at Casey for, surely it's to improve his deficiencies. and to learn what it takes, to become a well rounded AFL footy player.

[dee-luded 2,958]

JKH is brilliant

Thats one draft pick we absolutely nailed

would be pretty amazing if Tapscott saved his career over the next 10 weeks.. he was at least added to the squad after T Mac was ruled out so theres some progress i suppose. 30 touches is a good sign

I'd go so far as to say handy

time will tell how handy.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Why is everyone so certain that ditching Casey would result in our players playing in a better side?

because its the 'Right' thing to do.. and trying to 'eat' 'devour', your 'co-aligned' club, is the Wrong thing to do.

..... the foundation of a great Culture is its values & adherence, doing the right thing: see the bottom of this post.

Start off a new entity as "the Demons", in the Casey region, with a good adaptation of the Demons Guernsey... & new song to the Demons music. and the rest will start to grow from there, with a good management team & coaches; & an openness & inclusiveness to our supporter base.

#edit: ditching isn't the right word... an amicable seperation is the way to work things out.

Paul Roos: "Hopefully we win as many games as we possibly can, but it really is the leadership and the culture and the transformation of the footy club hopefully that will take place, that excites me the most."

"We've got to be clear about what we stand for as a footy club, and what we deem as acceptable, and unacceptable."

Edited June 29, 2014 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,958]

And you are no better. Apart from the fact that H-H is a poor excuse for a supporter (turns on the club the moment anything starts to go awry), are you seriously telling me your post at 4:10pm added value? (at least I waited until after the game was over and discussion was essentially over).

"Mate get it through your head. Toumpas needs to stand up, he is way off the mark right now and is barely making the Casey Seniors. For what we took him at the draft is a joke right now, if I didnt know any better I would think BP were behind picking him up."

how would you know what sort of supporter H_H is. We all only see his way of looking at things & then writing those thoughts/concerns.

Should all who were abusive of, or condescending to Cam Pederson, also be banned/suspended from this site, for 'having a go' at a Melbourne player, of official? Maybe those who were abusive of, & wanted Schwab's head should be suspended ?

the thing, is we live in a democracy, & have free speech; & we all have different styles of expression. thank goodness.

The simple thing, one would have thought, would be to use the block function at our disposal. Otherwise just ask them why they see it that way, or just say you don't agree.

Edited June 29, 2014 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,958]

I'm not convinced the performance of Casey would be holding any MFC player back, as has been asserted previously in this thread.

I don't see the result or performance of the side as having any adverse effect on the individual players at all.

And I don't see the result as having any real importance to the MFC players.

It's not what their individual performances are judged on, nor what they are told to focus on by Allison et al.

They focus on aspects of their own individual game that are conducive to being effective at AFL level, and that alone.

Adhering to defensive structures even if their teammates aren't, accountability, 2 way running, winning their own ball.

Not the scoreboard.

The fact the Casey side is getting comprehensively flogged and that they are still expected to perform their own role is a good thing.

The MFC players don't get sucked into doing things to win the game that might go against the team philosophy, instead of sticking to their role.

Some say it would be demoralising - well not if you are focused on your own performance and not the result.

As I think they should be.

the reason we joined with Casey, & went to the Gippsland corridor was to grow the supporter base.

... it has nothing to do with our players development. They would have been just the same if we stayed at Trevor Barker oval.

This merger was all about growing a new support base around Casey, which we haven't had from being homed @ the 'G', & with no suburb to call our own, where we had our own tribe from.

Doing the 'right thing' is the only way forward, to achieve the end of 'Attracting Locals', to the Dees.

Edited June 29, 2014 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,958]

KC your review highlights the lack of depth in the talls department up forward anyway. If Chip goes at end of the year and we bring more midfielders we could be in trouble down the track. Reading Dawes in the Age article the other week he didn't instill confidence that his body will see out another 2 years. We will need to draft in another ruck forward very late in the draft at the very least.

Agreed, we should draft a Tall utility, but after a Mid with our first pick, IMO.

IF we trade one of our first picks for a 'Shiel type', then 'a Hypothetical [Chip] compo pick', could be used on a Tall Utility draftee, or we could also trade that pick for a 'Christian Jaksch' type, plus their [end of 1st Rnd Pick]

... we also imo, need to rookie a tall defender, & a ruck as well.

[mrtwister 650]

...that was a truly awful game to watch. A team with sub-standard VFL players filled with sub AFL level players ( with a few exceptions - JKH, Toumpas Fitzpatrick).

I've seen criticism of Welsh here before, but I have never seen a coach so dis-engaged from his players. Might as well have sat in the stands, since all he did was watch the game.

No extra in the backline against a howling wind, interchange system was similar to Bailey's... You don't sub players when the ball is in your backline, leaving forwards unmarked....Toumpas comes off and has to scream at the player replacing him to get on the ground, as he was too busy watching the game. Just amateurish.

Willy had a simple plan...load the backline against the wind, and kick the ball long and deep when with it. Footy is a simple game, and you just adapt to the conditions at hand. Didn't happen today....

Maybe Casey are looking for some early draft picks?

[Pennant St Dee 11,257]

That is an interesting comparison, Pennant, one that I certainly didn't know and I doubt if too many here do either.

Are the Peel coaching staff in cahoots with the Dockers though? Are they following the same game plan, even if not effectively?

From what I hear, and I haven't seen it myself, there does seem to be some discordance between MFC and Casey battle plans.

Dockers players get instructed by Dockers coaches then back to the main huddle. Massive divide between Peel & Freo. Eventually they will become a stand alone Dockers side

[KC from Casey 6,514]

The match stats -

* Sam Blease 2 goals 22 disposals 19 kicks 3 handballs 1 marks 6 tackles 99 Dream Team Points

* Mitch Clisby 19 disposals 13 kicks 6 handballs 4 marks 1 tackles 69 Dream Team Points

* Michael Evans 11 disposals 4 kicks 7 handballs 10 tackles 62 Dream Team Points

* Jack Fitzpatrick 9 disposals 7 kicks 2 handballs 4 marks 4 tackles 46 hit outs 97 Dream Team Points

* Alexis Georgiou 19 disposals 12 kicks 7 handballs 6 marks 6 tackles 93 Dream Team Points

* James Harmes 15 disposals 8 kicks 7 handballs 3 marks 6 tackles 73 Dream Team Points

* Jay Kennedy-Harris 1 point 33 disposals 20 kicks 13 handballs 5 marks 7 tackles 131 Dream Team Points

* Max King 5 disposals 5 kicks 1 mark 1 hit out 20 Dream Team Points

* Viv Michie 16 disposals 7 kicks 9 handballs 3 tackles 49 Dream Team Points

* James Strauss 13 disposals 10 kicks 3 handballs 4 marks 7 tackles 76 Dream Team Points

* Luke Tapscott 31 disposals 16 kicks 15 handballs 1 marks 5 tackles 100 Dream Team Points

* Jimmy Toumpas

[Ethan Tremblay 28,388]

Dockers players get instructed by Dockers coaches then back to the main huddle. Massive divide between Peel & Freo. Eventually they will become a stand alone Dockers side

What's the massive divide? I'm not having a go, I am actually curious.

As from this season Peel are the host club of Fremantle.

[deanox 8,588]

Out of interest don't the VFL clubs have a salary cap?

That means, outside of the MFC listed players, Casey can technically pay $ x on their other players and all clubs are in the same situation.

If the poor quality Casey list was because Casey is struggling financially, AND the MFC thought that an improved VFL list would be of strong benefit to our AFL players playing with Casey, it would only cost the MFC a small amount (<$150,000) to top up the Casey player payments to the salary cap.

IF it was a big deal, it is a relatively cheap fix. Especially given or development coaches already have some influence and the coach is at least MFC approved.

Unless, of course, there is strong resistance from Casey internally off field preventing the MFC getting involved in that way.

[Coup Cooper 610]

Back on the topic of today's game, I had a good look at Michie at times today. In no way did he do enough to be considered for promotion but gee he shows some good old fashioned footy skills. Saw him shark the ball and look upfield for a disposal option. Hard against the boundary, downwind, kicking against the wind. Willy players coming at him from the left side. He was about to dispose, then pulled the ball in and sidestepped one player coming in from his left. Was about to dispose again, and again another enemy came flying in from the left. Michie at the last minute baulked and sidestepped a second time and then sent the ball forward cleanly to a contest further along the boundary, having no other real options. It happened within the space of about 2-3 seconds but looked so smooth and beautiful to watch.

Looks to me like he has some serious talent. Wish he could get amongst it more and really prove his worth.

Id rather Michie in the side than Nicho.. Nicho is a deadset muppet..

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I was a great supporter of the Casey alignment at first, but comes a time when you have to re-examine its worth. How much does the MFC tip in a year to Casey and what is the return on that investment? Regardless of the what is at stake at VFL level and any possible affect on our AFL players, no player likes to be sent to "Siberia" and walk off the ground after a flogging. Over the VFL journey thus far, more and more AFL clubs, including the Bullies, have reverted to their own "2nds". The Box Hill Hawks are Hawthorn run in all ways, other than the retention of the Box Hill name.

I have no doubt the MFC are looking at the situation. I know from one Casey parent, that she is ropable at the affect the alignment has had on non-MFC listed Casey players, including her own son. No doubt a vested interest there, but she tells me the feeling is shared by quite a number of parents. To some extent, this alone has caused a dislocation of the alignment. It would be an opportunity cost for the MFC not to look at the alternative.

Edited June 30, 2014 by iv'a worn smith

[nutbean 8,837]

Hang on lets see where the proof is in that. Im not trying to defend Mark Neeld but all we have heard is really is rumours only about Mark Neeld overiding Todd.. There hasn't been any quote or no evidence that Neeld overuled Todd Viney.

Mark Neeld also was solely responsible for the global financial crisis.

[nutbean 8,837]

how would you know what sort of supporter H_H is. We all only see his way of looking at things & then writing those thoughts/concerns.

Should all who were abusive of, or condescending to Cam Pederson, also be banned/suspended from this site, for 'having a go' at a Melbourne player, of official? Maybe those who were abusive of, & wanted Schwab's head should be suspended ?

the thing, is we live in a democracy, & have free speech; & we all have different styles of expression. thank goodness.

The simple thing, one would have thought, would be to use the block function at our disposal. Otherwise just ask them why they see it that way, or just say you don't agree.

couldn't agree more..but then there's Hogans Heroes

[Dwight Schrute 16,751]

I don't believe the story about neeld overriding viney

We took toumpas because he was the most highly rated player at the time and we aleady had an inside player in viney

At this stage it hasn't panned out but you don't always win when you bet on the favourite,

I still hold a good deal of hope for Jimmy and I reckon the coaches and players do too

[Pennant St Dee 11,257]

What's the massive divide? I'm not having a go, I am actually curious.

As from this season Peel are the host club of Fremantle.

No interaction between Dockers players and Peel

Lyon stopped the Dockers players training 1 night a week with Peel due to concerns of the travel from Perth/Freo to Mandurah possibly causing injury

No assisting development in the club and overlooking good WAFL players over Dockers rookies and draftees (this is to be expected and also happening at East Perth)

The emergencies being held over to the last minute or withdrawn late to suit Freo, 2 emergencies on the weekend did not turn up till just after quarter time which left Peel with only 2 on the bench for the first quarter. Peel played Subi about 2 km from Patersons and the decision that Bradley & Sheridan needed a run so they had to do without for a quarter and ten minutes.

I understand it's all about the AFL club but doesn't bode well for harmony with the alignment