GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[Chook 15,055]

his playing performance doesn't suggest this to me? interested to know what your sense is based on?

Please do yourself a favour and go discover the purpose of a question mark.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Most of you said goodbye to Watts after his appearance on the footy show.

FA has brought a new world, get used to players re-signing later and later.

So why has Dunn come out mid year to sign rather than waiting until the end of the year?

It says something about the character and personality of the player.

Last year with Watts and this year with Frawley are very different situations. The environment of the club is also very different.

It's a very poor reflection on a guy who is one of our more senior and experienced players.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,489]

I've missed something, since when is Adelaide in their premiership window ?

[Older demon 2,801]

Watts admits that he was swayed when Roos took over as coach and I have no doubt he was seriously considering leaving. Well Chip knows what is on the table at that Roos will most likely coach for the next 2 years. Judge people by what they do NOT by what they say. Dunn set the standard today by signing up now and that is real leadership. The ball is firmly in Chips court and the longer he delays the more inclined I am that he will go. PJ has said that the succession plan will not happen till post seasons as they consider the candidates. Chip will not know who the next coach will be when he makes his decision. Good on you Lyndon

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

Please do yourself a favour and go discover the purpose of a question mark.

Auto Correct on the phone mate, things a nightmare.

[whatwhat say what 23,749]

i expect him to go, but i hope that he stays.

[w00dy 146]

Watching that I'd say we have a 20-30% chance of him staying. He looks Gawn.

Obviously not a direct replacement, but seeing Stef Martin get back into the Brisbane team reminded me of his early days when he played down back. He was fast, staying with players on the lead, and strong enough to deal with the big forwards (something TMac struggles with). Could be a backup down there?

He's not suited to the forward line where we made him play as well as the second ruck. I'd love to see what Roosey could do with him, he obviously didn't work well with Neeld.

[Adam The God 30,696]

I don't see any of those teams as contenders after this year.

I don't see Adelaide as a contender this year either. What a strange choice, BRFE.

[Adam The God 30,696]

So why has Dunn come out mid year to sign rather than waiting until the end of the year?

It says something about the character and personality of the player.

Last year with Watts and this year with Frawley are very different situations. The environment of the club is also very different.

It's a very poor reflection on a guy who is one of our more senior and experienced players.

Or maybe Dunn's agent said, hey, Lynden, would you have taken a three year deal twelve months ago? Of course, you would have. This is a brilliant offer that will see you stay a Demon for life and probably on decent money.

I know this is a messageboard and much of the debate we have comes from speculating, but I just don't think this Frawley speculation is particularly thoughtful. It doesn't take into account the different people involved. Further, you paradoxically acknowledge that the Watts and Frawley situations are very different, STMJ, yet you don't take into account that they might be very different people.

As for poor body language, I just don't think Chip is a particularly good leader. He doesn't seem to revel in the spotlight. I'm not going to read into this. It's far more likely that he'll re-sign, than move on.

Ultimately, people will interpret body language, conversations etc and mould it to support their view. This is usually the case when we think of the worst possible situation. I think, as with Watts on The Footy Show last year, some of us think he's gone and therefore just about anything he does is seen as fatal.

[Its Time for Another 4,306]

The comment that worried me the most was something along the lines of "I'm looking for 100% improvement all the time or improvement 100% of the time. To me that was a give away. Setting a standard that can't be reached. At the beginning of the year it was "I'm looking for improvement." Now there's clear massive improvement he's moving the goalposts. It's not just 100% improvement but it's also the chance of a Premiership. What does that tell you. Tell's me he's gone.

I don't especially blame him. He's been the player most under the pump for his whole career being the last line of defence being bombarded and not able to compete properly no matter how well he plays. Week after week, year after year for 8 years. But on the other hand, that's all being fixed now and as others have said we are probably one of the teams with the most upside over the next 3-5 years. Could you say that about the Hawks who's window is closing week by week. I believe they are the most likely destination. They have a desperate need for him with Lake about to retire, they have plenty of room in the salary cap. They are a great Club, although most of their stars will be gone in 2-3 years and they'll be doing a major rebuild by then whereas we've done ours. I wouldn't go to Freo if I was him. They are also going to need to go through a rebuild over the next 2-3 yrs. They already seem to be dropping off, although there is a lot of season still to go. Plus they are Freo which means interstate travel every other week.

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

The comment that worried me the most was something along the lines of "I'm looking for 100% improvement all the time or improvement 100% of the time. To me that was a give away. Setting a standard that can't be reached. At the beginning of the year it was "I'm looking for improvement." Now there's clear massive improvement he's moving the goalposts. It's not just 100% improvement but it's also the chance of a Premiership. What does that tell you. Tell's me he's gone.

I don't especially blame him. He's been the player most under the pump for his whole career being the last line of defence being bombarded and not able to compete properly no matter how well he plays. Week after week, year after year for 8 years. But on the other hand, that's all being fixed now and as others have said we are probably one of the teams with the most upside over the next 3-5 years. Could you say that about the Hawks who's window is closing week by week. I believe they are the most likely destination. They have a desperate need for him with Lake about to retire, they have plenty of room in the salary cap. They are a great Club, although most of their stars will be gone in 2-3 years and they'll be doing a major rebuild by then whereas we've done ours. I wouldn't go to Freo if I was him. They are also going to need to go through a rebuild over the next 2-3 yrs. They already seem to be dropping off, although there is a lot of season still to go. Plus they are Freo which means interstate travel every other week.

I didn't take that comment like that, I sort of viewed it as he wants us to keep improving, no good looking good atm if we have a few bad losses and fall in a heap in the back end of the season, really hope he stays but not the end of the world if he goes.

[hayz 27]

Frawley also made a comment along the lines of "hopefully we will be playing finals soon"

That to me says he's staying. He was speaking about the club as we.

Apart from trying to get more money from the club, maybe James also likes the

Attention of so many clubs wanting him? Build up his ego a little bit?

He's correct in saying there's no rush, I believe he will re sign at the end of the year.

[Tatu 416]

The comment that worried me the most was something along the lines of "I'm looking for 100% improvement all the time or improvement 100% of the time. To me that was a give away. Setting a standard that can't be reached. At the beginning of the year it was "I'm looking for improvement." Now there's clear massive improvement he's moving the goalposts. It's not just 100% improvement but it's also the chance of a Premiership. What does that tell you. Tell's me he's gone.

I don't especially blame him. He's been the player most under the pump for his whole career being the last line of defence being bombarded and not able to compete properly no matter how well he plays. Week after week, year after year for 8 years. But on the other hand, that's all being fixed now and as others have said we are probably one of the teams with the most upside over the next 3-5 years. Could you say that about the Hawks who's window is closing week by week. I believe they are the most likely destination. They have a desperate need for him with Lake about to retire, they have plenty of room in the salary cap. They are a great Club, although most of their stars will be gone in 2-3 years and they'll be doing a major rebuild by then whereas we've done ours. I wouldn't go to Freo if I was him. They are also going to need to go through a rebuild over the next 2-3 yrs. They already seem to be dropping off, although there is a lot of season still to go. Plus they are Freo which means interstate travel every other week.

if its money he wants, he'll go to the highest bidder... If its success he wants, then he'll go to Sydney... Ether way, i can't see him staying...

[picket fence 18,130]

Not all that fussed one way or another. Happy if he stays and if he goes we get some compensation.

I don't think James Frawley is worth a reported $ 800 g to the Melbourne football club Nup.

If money is the criteria then cest la vie.

Worth 500- 600 no more no less.

Lets build our team around blokes who want to be around the place which will build our culture.

That's my take! Fence!

[rufus 1,162]

Would be happy for Frawley to go especially given the suggested compensation. We don't need blokes holding us to ransom especially not a bloke who over the last couple of years was one of the first to raise the white flag when things were going bad. Players with that in them aren't capable of being part of building a successful football team. He'd be of much more use to Hawthorn than us where he can go off and cherry pick off the hard committed work the Hawthorn players have put in over the long haul and get a 'hard earned' flag for himself.

[rjay 25,408]

I don't see Adelaide as a contender this year either. What a strange choice, BRFE.

Yep, Adelaide will be lucky if they scrape into the 8 this year 'Adam'.

[drdrake 3,203]

How has our back 6 performed with out him?

Why out of all the defenders have we sent him forward? Dunn is a better forward option than him and TMac was also drafted as a Forward Ruck.

If he goes what will we get a round 1 pick most likely 5 or 6.

If he stays good but if he goes oh well we live and it won't effect our team a great deal, considering the role he is playing now, we have a better option injured and I haven't given up on Mitch Clark playing next year.

[Redleg 42,112]

I don't know if he will stay or go, but personally I think he has had a poor season year so far.

If only one of them could be picked, out of Chip or Cam, I know who would be left out. That is a remarkable turnaround for soemone who is being spruiked at $800k a year.

[nutbean 8,838]

Would be happy for Frawley to go especially given the suggested compensation. We don't need blokes holding us to ransom especially not a bloke who over the last couple of years was one of the first to raise the white flag when things were going bad. Players with that in them aren't capable of being part of building a successful football team. He'd be of much more use to Hawthorn than us where he can go off and cherry pick off the hard committed work the Hawthorn players have put in over the long haul and get a 'hard earned' flag for himself.

I am bemused by the idea of players "holding us to ransom". Modern AFL and players being recontracted has one main driver and thats demand. Managers and their players assess what they can get at another club and what they are offered at their existing club. There are always the little added anomalies like leaving to play finals or not getting on with the coach/played out of position or not being played at all. Players in general that don't play for basketcase teams are happy enough to stay for the same money being offered by other clubs or even slightly less ( aka Travis Cloke - took a lower offer to stay to Collingwood - the difference in $'s was not enough for him to move on).

This is not holding a club to ransom - its the way of the world. To those pointing to Dunn signing up early as a free agent. Different players have different priorities.

The take home message is that AFL to players is a business and a career. We get confused that supporters like us don't get paid to attend ( in fact many of us pay handsomely for the privilege) but the players do, and like most employees - we are loyal to the company that employs us - unless we are offered compelling reasons to work elsewhere.

[rufus 1,162]

I am bemused by the idea of players "holding us to ransom". Modern AFL and players being recontracted has one main driver and thats demand. Managers and their players assess what they can get at another club and what they are offered at their existing club. There are always the little added anomalies like leaving to play finals or not getting on with the coach/played out of position or not being played at all. Players in general that don't play for basketcase teams are happy enough to stay for the same money being offered by other clubs or even slightly less ( aka Travis Cloke - took a lower offer to stay to Collingwood - the difference in $'s was not enough for him to move on).

This is not holding a club to ransom - its the way of the world. To those pointing to Dunn signing up early as a free agent. Different players have different priorities.

The take home message is that AFL to players is a business and a career. We get confused that supporters like us don't get paid to attend ( in fact many of us pay handsomely for the privilege) but the players do, and like most employees - we are loyal to the company that employs us - unless we are offered compelling reasons to work elsewhere.

It's a business but at the moment it is very one sided. Players want all the power regarding where they play. In other professional sports while you are contracted to a club (using the NBA as an example) they might chose to ship you out to anywhere they want whenever they want (during allowed trade periods). AFL players have to agree to be traded and we still have this ridiculous 'go home factor'. Either they are professionals who can live away from their home state during their professional window or they aren't really professionals. For example, if we can re-sign Hogan in the next couple of years we'd be wise to then ship him early in his contract to another club for the highest draft pick on offer, and use it on a Victorian player. That way, we rid ourselves of any of this go-home talk in the future. It would be brutal behaviour but if the players are now allowed to be brutal why can't the clubs be? Yes it would hurt the reputation of your club as a future employer if you were the only club doing this kind of thing, but not if all clubs started doing it. This way, contracted players become assets to the clubs so both the players and the clubs have times where they have power.

Also, ransom might not be the right word, but with Frawley I find it hilarious that he is even mentioning the word 'improvement'. He has not improved at all over the last 4 years and has had one good season in his career. That however is not as damning as is non efforts in some games over the last few years. It's been insulting to the supporters who have turned up to watch. Why is he not taking any responbility for the club's improvement? We don't need people with this attitude.

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

Obviously we'd love to keep Frawley. He is a major landmark in our defensive, but i dont feel as if he can be a gun forward.

If we can keep him and snare an opposition forward/draft a gun forward, then i feel as if we'd be in a great position moving forward.. he really is important to keep for structures.

So those of you who dont mind losing him, i'd encourage you to look at his actual value to the team and how hard it will be to replace that. Think about how hard it is to find someone like Frawley, it's really tough to develop someone into an All Australian defender. He is just sooo important!

[nutbean 8,838]

Go home factor is way overplayed. The amount of players playing away from their home state through their entire careers as opposed to those want to go home is tiny.

As to the ransom and Chips comments - refer to my comment again - I said the player transfer market is completely governed by demand. Demand is purely about how much someone is prepared to play. The arguments about improvement and non effort are subjective and may or may not have an impact on the demand for his services. At the moment, he is in demand.

I agree to a point that the players have to take responsibility for the clubs improvement but he is correct to look at other areas that needed improvement as Watts did - there is no doubt that we were a basketcase in many areas of the club.

[dazzledavey36 56,203]

This is a big call but Tom Mcdonald is becoming a more important defender then Frawley. Just needs to know his limitations. Mcdonald has taken some huge scalps this year and im surprised he isnt getting talked up as a genuine All Australian smoky.

[Sir Why You Little 37,407]

Heard this morning the Players Association want to push for 6 years to engage FA rather than 8.

Better get used to the revolving door.

[Canberra Demon 159]

I still think he has already sorted a deal. I think it was sorted in meetings last year like Sydney and Franklin.

He wants to play finals and like every player so should he. Does he want to walk into a team who already has a proven finals team. A premiership window thats wide open. If he does then he is SO gone its not funny.

Does he want to play finals in a team that built him up, that he has spent years with, that it will mean so much more playing in. Well then he will stay.

I would love for him to stay a Demon, i would enjoy watching him run out for the Dees in September. I honestly think that is not too far away with our team/squad and direction under Roos and the FD.

The question is does Frawley want to wait that long or does he want to do it now?

As i said, i think a deal was sorted last year. Well before Roos, well before Tyson/Vince/JKH/Salem/Cross (no particular order) and WELL before the performance of the club this year.