WATTS, SHORT CIRCUITING OR NOT?

[Deemotivated 550]

The posters that are going on defending him need to realize the negative posters don't expect him to crash every pack and out muscle every opponent...

It is more than fair to expect him not to be constantly bumped off the ball, rag dolled and make half arsed tackle and marking attempts... JKH chases, tackles and bumps harder than Watts and he's prob 20kg lighter. The excuses need to stop.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,538]

How many years and how many threads til this bloke goes elsewhere to chase a bit of success, then when he gets there he and they realise the standards of true success at AFL level are beyond him?

Hopefully it's sooner rather than later. I'm sick of him being our problem. Sick of reading about him and most definitely sick of talking about him.

Not up to it.

Colin Sylvia mk II.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Tom McDonald played a bad game on Sunday. He was beaten comprehensively on Sunday.

I ask why JW cops such criticism but TM doesn't.

I have not been a vocal critic of JW but I am now. It is not that he played badly - he is copping well deserved crticism for the manner that he plays badly.

I think supporters can half stomach a player getting beaten by a better player on the day as long as the effort was there ( TM being a prime example). It is the lack of apparent effort that I can't stomach.

TM = 2010 draft at pick 53= 194 cm's. JW = 2008 draft at pick number 1 = 196 cm's. Tommy played on Sam Day who is 196 cm and was taken at pick 3 in 2010.

[ManDee 7,091]

your logic is quite suspect here, but believe what you want

So if he is in the side next week what do you conclude?

[daisycutter 28,636]

So if he is in the side next week what do you conclude?

i don't conclude anything in particular (apart from he is lucky)

i certainly don't conclude that he is playing to instructions

there is no way he is meeting roosies "non-negotiables" based on last week

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

So if he is in the side next week what do you conclude?

disappointment. I am tired of seeing his half assed efforts on National TV.

Must impress the sponsors enormously.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I remember, as most of us do, when JW debuted against the filth in his first year. Clearly, he was thrown to the wolves. As to whether he should have been or not, remains a matter of debate. After that game, a number of mates of mine observed that they could tell even then he just did not have what it takes for a number 1 draft pick. I retorted by saying, wait for another 3 years, then you will be laughing on the other side of your face.

I, like most of us, am still waiting. Why didn't I just keep my mouth shut?

[ManDee 7,091]

disappointment. I am tired of seeing his half assed efforts on National TV.

Must impress the sponsors enormously.

Don't think you can actually conclude disappointment, but I share your frustration.

[jazza 1,323]

So if he is in the side next week what do you conclude?

tough choices for the coaching group.

leave him in and continue to coach him until years end.

drop him to ressies for remainder of year and get nothing in trade for him.

although if put up for trade,i think most clubs would offer a burnt snag in stale bread.

[ManDee 7,091]

i don't conclude anything in particular (apart from he is lucky)

i certainly don't conclude that he is playing to instructions

there is no way he is meeting roosies "non-negotiables" based on last week

So if that is the case he should be dropped.

Selection this week will be interesting.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

Don't think you can actually conclude disappointment, but I share your frustration.

excuse me??

I will be disappointed if Watts plays next week after the efforts i have seen in at least 2 games this year.

Don't tell me what i can and cannot conclude.

Edited April 22, 2014 by why you little

[daisycutter 28,636]

So if that is the case he should be dropped.

Selection this week will be interesting.

possibly and if he is i would understand

but as others have pointed out there were a lot of other players who didn't meet the coaches "non-negotiables"

i don't think roosy will make wholesale changes

so some players will be unlucky and some will be lucky

it's also true that we don't have a long list beating down the door for selection

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Colin Sylvia mk II.

Wrong.

Cale Morton mk II

[binman 38,783]

I have hesitated posting anything about JW as i wanted to cool down a bit. On Sunday night i thought he needed to be dropped.

Now that i have calmed down a bit, i think he needs to be dropped.

I have never seen JW through rose colored glasses and from the beginning have agreed he needs to improve his physicality. That said I have been a great supporter of Wattsy and have defended him many times on Demonland. I expected the penny to drop last year when moved to the half back flank and again thought Roosy might find the key to getting him going. Perhaps he still will but i have to admit the signs are very bad.

Watts was hopeless against the Eagles and i posted then i thought he was on thin ice. I only listed to the GWS game on the radio so not really sure how he went in that game. But he was truly woeful on the weekend. Other posters have given enough of examples of why but the one that resonates is Dawes running straight past him in the center of the ground to try (unsuccessfully) and get to a man on the wing. This was Watt's lack of effort and letting his team mates down writ large for all to see. And i'm sure Dawes was making a point by gusting a gut for what was a lost cause (though not for Watts if he had gone hard and early) and i'm equally sure his anger in the post match interview with Burgs was at least in part related to Watts lack of effort throughout the game.

Jeez the Leading Teams model must cause Watts nightmares as surely his team mates will let him know their thoughts.

There was another example and one that i don't think has been noted thus far. On the half forward flank at the city end (where i was sitting) Ablett had the ball and was running towards goal at right angles to where Watts was (JW was about 15 metres away and on the move). Watts had the perfect opportunity to absolutely pole axe Ablett and force a turnover. He wouldn't have been at any risk of getting hurt as he would have completely blind sided him. Instead he ran to Ablett at half pace, made a weak attempt at tacking which Ablett brushed off and pumped the ball into the goal mouth. My son, who is 11 nailed it later in the day when on another occasion he failed to commit to a tackle he said 'he is so hesitant'.

I hate bagging players at the footy and rarely do it. I couldn't help yelling in frustration at him a couple of times. One such time was just after half time when i implored him to change the direction of the match and win it for us, as nothing short of that would have lessened my frustration with him. To be fair he improved his intensity and laid an excellent tackle at the Punt road half back flank on the kid with the white mop. But really too little to late.

With Roos having so publicly made clear what his non negotiable are (the basic footy stuff) he has left Roos with little option but to drop him and i expect that is what he will do. Surely if he doesn't it will because Roos has given him an ultimatum and one last chance to turn things around.If he is dropped it will be for quite a long time i reckon and you have to wonder if he has the bottle to force his way back. So depressing.

One more thing. I'm not being trite but comparing Watts to Trav is an insult to TrJ. Yes they both look alittle casual, yes both have sublime skills, yes trav wasn't overly physical but i rarely if ever questioned TJ's courage or commitment

Edited April 22, 2014 by binman

[beelzebub 22,268]

great post.

watts is on track to show this kind of ability.one day

Im really not so sure. And its not saying this just for the sake of it.

Flower was in a way a bit of a freak. The kind of player that created space where none existed ( actually Trapper could too ) . Though 5 inches shorter and a probable 15 kg lighter than Watts , Flower would easily out manouvre and hustle Watts. Flower understood his body and how to use it on the footy field. Jack has all but no idea really, not in close quarters. Jack needs space for his skills to shine , and he has many but they get all too easily impacted by the heightened level of play . The harder it got the more Robbie shone. The harder is gets game day the worse Watts looks. I take no pleasure in writing that. Its just what is.

We often use the term 'mongrel' when determining whether a player has , or hasnt any real moxie for the game. There is no doubt he has some or he would not be out there but he seems to make little impact on the game, or rather the opposition.

An aspect that truly concerns me is that Jack is now 5 seasons in and seems to show no real appetite for the battle. Contrary to some I'd suggest he does indeed try, in his own manner, its just ineffectual. Tackles rarely stick and he doesnt shut down anyones play. His own efforts in offence often go well but theres no real defensive side to his game . Hes as they say a one way runner.

Some suggest hed be better off playing basket ball but id disagree on that in so far as at the elite level its a very rough and tumble , no please or thankyou's given type of game. I think he run into the same problems there. He wouldnt impose of himself and in so be found wanting. Even in B Ball smaller players are still able and desire to take on larger ones in the contest with body on body. This is seemingly what jack isnt so keen on, i.e the 'crunch'. This seems odd to me because if you use your body well it actually hurts less to be the instigator as opposed the receiver.

I keep saying it...its all between the ears...with Jack

And as further to the comparison to a Flower, Robbie ALWAYS had that appetite for the game. 5 seasons in we're still waiting with Jack.

Edited April 22, 2014 by beelzebub

[jnrmac 19,202]

I have always blamed the Melbourne Football Club for what Watts has turned into .

To have him play his first game against Collingwood to load such heavy expectations on a young man, to basically throw him to the wolves and for him to get crunched as he did with no real back up from his team mates at the time for me set the tone for Watts then and unfortunately now

I have no doubt that Watts has the making of a Brilliant Footballer , but how to drag that out of him and turn it into consistent performances is something I am longing to see a good coach do

I hope that Roos is that Coach not only for Watts sake but also for the Melbourne Football club and us as supporters.

Watts tantalises with some brilliant passages of play and some deft decision making at times , then you see him at other times run along side a opposition player till they kick the ball without Jack making any real effort to intervene , his tackling at times is like a bee landing on a flower , the bee has the potential to do real damage when it wants to but in these instances it just doesn't.

Deep down I like Jack but he needs to become a more aggressive and more regular performer and realise that he is part of the bigger picture and that he can have a real impact and help turn around the fortunes of the MFC around , and when he does that not only will he will earn the respect from all players including opposition players and all coaches, but most of all, from all of us as supporters.

Like many here I look forward to that day I just hope it isn't that far away as it seems at the moment

Blame the MFC? Sheesh. If he had any intestinal fortitude he would have shrugged it off. He doesn't and he clearly hasn't.

He simply has no appetite for a contest. I'd be amazed if he doesn't cop a pizzling from his teamates in the rooms after a game like that. Why some defend him with this "oooh its the MFCs fault" is beyond me.

I'd trade him right now for another Daniel Cross. He doesn't deserve to be in the team.

[frankie_d 1,410]

Other posters have given enough of examples of why but the one that resonates is Dawes running straight past him in the center of the ground to try (unsuccessfully) and get to a man on the wing. This was Watts lack of effort and his letting his team mates writ large for all to see. And i'm sure Dawes was making a point and i'm equally sure his anger in the post match interview with Burgs wasat least in part related to Watts lack of effort throughout the game.

That example was a killer - he either had no idea what to do (and I think we all agree that he's too smart for that to be the case) or wasn't switched on (possible - he may not be a natural footballer - a natural ball player and basketball player, yes, but not a natural footballer), or he's lazy and thought "stuff it".

I actually think he's not a natural contested game player - so used to dominating in everything at under age level, that the need to compete and chase as if your life depended on it hasn't sunk in. I wonder what his reaction will be when that part of the tape is reviewed ?

This is moving to the "acceptance" stage of bereavement - I think most of us (even those who've stuck up for him) are sadly coming to the know that the truth is - he's just not up to it...

[ManDee 7,091]

excuse me??

I will be disappointed if Watts plays next week after the efforts i have seen in at least 2 games this year.

Don't tell me what i can and cannot conclude.

My reference was in relation to the selection committee, and if they pick Watts ie-What does that tell us about their decision to pick him?

You most certainly can be disappointed but I did not think that applied to my question.

So if he is in the side next week what do you conclude? "wyl. disappointment"

So I stand by what I said "Don't think you can actually conclude disappointment, but I share your frustration"

Edit:- context error in quote fixed.

Edited April 22, 2014 by ManDee

[dee-luded 2,958]

As we are communicating in English and premise is an English word, I thought that it best described my point.

Premise - a previous statement or proposition from which another is inferred or follows as a conclusion.

"if the premise is true, then the conclusion must be true"

I am somewhat unfamiliar (free kick to anyone that wants it) with the language you refer to "Footy", so I will put it simply. If Watts was told to do his job and he did it , good. If not drop him.

I am glad I didn't go for post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Now i see why Watts is struggling.

He must be making things un-necessarily difficult. thinking about preps'.

This could be why he seems so confused, as to how to chase. He must keep asking, what is the preposition Re chasing, & should I add a verb, or an adjective... Goal ! "Oh well, I'll Google it later".

you must be his mentor or teacher mandee. I can see Watts being a good teacher, One day soon.

Et ego propheta sum

.

[ManDee 7,091]

Now i see why Watts is struggling.

He must be making things un-necessarily difficult. thinking about preps'.

This could be why he seems so confused, as to how to chase. He must keep asking, what is the preposition Re chasing, & should I add a verb, or an adjective... Goal ! "Oh well, I'll Google it later".

you must be his mentor or teacher mandee. I can see Watts being a good teacher, One day soon.

Et ego propheta sum

.

You wish.

More a case of reductio ad absurdum.

[Pipefitter 2,027]

It's not just appetite for the contest. It's appetite to be a footy player.

It's like he has accepted he shouldn't have been picked at no 1. The telling words were when he was saying he thought melbourne would have been better by now. He didn't seem like the person who wanted to drag this club out of hell. And he sure as hell shows this on the field.

[ManDee 7,091]

I am not an apologist for Jack Watts.

His game on the weekend was unacceptable to me.

What I have been arguing is that we supporters do not know of any extenuating circumstances or particular roles given.

The coach may accept his output, I wouldn't but I don't know the particulars of Watts' role.

Based on what I saw I would drop him and pick Salem, but there may be reasons behind the scenes.

PS: We all seem grumpier after a loss.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Im really not so sure. And its not saying this just for the sake of it.

Flower was in a way a bit of a freak. The kind of player that created space where none existed ( actually Trapper could too ) . Though 5 inches shorter and a probable 15 kg lighter than Watts , Flower would easily out manouvre and hustle Watts. Flower understood his body and how to use it on the footy field. Jack has all but no idea really, not in close quarters. Jack needs space for his skills to shine , and he has many but they get all too easily impacted by the heightened level of play . The harder it got the more Robbie shone. The harder is gets game day the worse Watts looks. I take no pleasure in writing that. Its just what is.

We often use the term 'mongrel' when determining whether a player has , or hasnt any real moxie for the game. There is no doubt he has some or he would not be out there but he seems to make little impact on the game, or rather the opposition.

An aspect that truly concerns me is that Jack is now 5 seasons in and seems to show no real appetite for the battle. Contrary to some I'd suggest he does indeed try, in his own manner, its just ineffectual. Tackles rarely stick and he doesnt shut down anyones play. His own efforts in offence often go well but theres no real defensive side to his game . Hes as they say a one way runner.

Some suggest hed be better off playing basket ball but id disagree on that in so far as at the elite level its a very rough and tumble , no please or thankyou's given type of game. I think he run into the same problems there. He wouldnt impose of himself and in so be found wanting. Even in B Ball smaller players are still able and desire to take on larger ones in the contest with body on body. This is seemingly what jack isnt so keen on, i.e the 'crunch'. This seems odd to me because if you use your body well it actually hurts less to be the instigator as opposed the receiver.

he'd be better as a soccer player

I keep saying it...its all between the ears...with Jack

... heart, IMO he's not driven by the love of the game. or to take physical risks to perform at his best, no matter what. I'm losing faith in Jack's ability to find the necessary desire, to do what it takes to be an AFL footballer.

And as further to the comparison to a Flower, Robbie ALWAYS had that appetite for the game. 5 seasons in we're still waiting with Jack.

Robbie loves the game, & would do whatever he could for the adulation of the fans, his peers, & to prove himself worthy of a spot in a Melbourne jumper.

its what Robbie wanted to do, he Bled Red & Blue, & it showed... it wasn't needed to be said. he just did it.

[Chook 14,602]

Et ego propheta sum

You wish.

More a case of reductio ad absurdum.

.

Quidquidne latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.

Case in point:

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

I have a catapult. Give me all the gold or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Chook

[ManDee 7,091]

Quidquidne latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Case in point:

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

I concur.

Edit:- Sorry I meant prorsus consetio

Edited April 22, 2014 by ManDee