Garry Lyon on FC

[Tony Tea 2,800]

There is one group of footy fans who utterly detest Nic Nat: West Aussies who don't barrack for the Eagles. They, especially Freo fans, are entirely sick of the press NN gets in WA. He only has to scratch his head for the Worst to put him on the front page.

[whatwhat say what 22,031]

Just watched it.

Wow, Dollars didn't hold back!

I hope Eagles pay him that $1m+ per year. Might free up some Victorians to be available to the likes of us.

[bush demon 1,989]

His best and most reliable feature is his quick give-off handball which creates space for the breakaway player. His long arm reach allows him space to be very creative. also, his dreads are excellent. We made the right decision every day of the week with Jack Watts.

[DeeSpencer 24,669]

His best and most reliable feature is his quick give-off handball which creates space for the breakaway player. His long arm reach allows him space to be very creative. also, his dreads are excellent. We made the right decision every day of the week with Jack Watts.

Stephen Hill, Daniel Rich, Hamish Hartlett, even Michael Hurley who looks like being nothing more than a solid without spectacular key defender.

As least with Nic Nat even if he's not at his best he is what he was meant to be. Athletic freak who can win a high percentage of hit outs including brilliantly to advantage and whilst he drifts out a lot of games he has the ability to break games open with a piece of play.

Watts didn't become a bad key forward, he wasn't even a key forward at all. Right now he's a C grade skilled outside mid with plenty of potential but that's about it. The main reason we have faith in Watts is due to our previous and current coaches more than anything.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,202]

Stephen Hill, Daniel Rich, Hamish Hartlett, even Michael Hurley who looks like being nothing more than a solid without spectacular key defender.

As least with Nic Nat even if he's not at his best he is what he was meant to be. Athletic freak who can win a high percentage of hit outs including brilliantly to advantage and whilst he drifts out a lot of games he has the ability to break games open with a piece of play.

Watts didn't become a bad key forward, he wasn't even a key forward at all. Right now he's a C grade skilled outside mid with plenty of potential but that's about it. The main reason we have faith in Watts is due to our previous and current coaches more than anything.

Sorry are you saying

- Watts is a c grade player, skilled outside mid with potential or

- Watts skills are c grade and he plays outside mid but has potential?

I take it as the first.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Al's Demons

[titan_uranus 24,548]

I cannot stand the love for Naitanui.

His selection in the AA team in 2012 was probably the single worst AA decision I've ever seen.

He has the talent to do a lot of things. Every now and again he'll have a quarter where he gets 10 touches and does something athletically freakish. The foolish see that as sufficient. The rest of us note that the rest of the time (and we're talking 80%+ of his career) he is non-existent.

Undoubtedly the AFL's most over-rated player.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Stephen Hill, Daniel Rich, Hamish Hartlett, even Michael Hurley who looks like being nothing more than a solid without spectacular key defender.

As least with Nic Nat even if he's not at his best he is what he was meant to be. Athletic freak who can win a high percentage of hit outs including brilliantly to advantage and whilst he drifts out a lot of games he has the ability to break games open with a piece of play.

Watts didn't become a bad key forward, he wasn't even a key forward at all. Right now he's a C grade skilled outside mid with plenty of potential but that's about it. The main reason we have faith in Watts is due to our previous and current coaches more than anything.

I think I'll take Roosy's opinion of Watts over yours, if that's ok with you.

You obviously get blinded by style over substance. Wow look how high he can jump; wow look how fast he can run; wow he hasn't had a kick this half but doesn't he look good, even if he hasn't done a thing.

Early in his career he got two lucky goals in a game and had about a handful of kicks, but the suckers were giving him votes as best on ground.

Smoke and Mirrors.

Exactly how many games has he won by a piece of play; dare I say, none.

Edited April 15, 2014 by RobbieF

[binman 41,906]

I recall quite a long Watts v NN thread (s?) in which i argued that we made the right move taking Watts. A point i made was that so much of NN's potential was based around his athleticism - in particular his leap, but that was also potentially a weakness as it meant that if he experienced any injuries that impacted on this strength he didn't have the football smarts and skill to cover this. I think we have seen this come true a bit. He struggled last year with injury and again the pre season just gone (and potentially again now). Injuries impact on all players however they have exposed his lack of true footy skill.

Edited April 15, 2014 by binman

[binman 41,906]

Another point about those threads about NN was that many posters were vehement in their views that NN was the obvious choice between the two, with some resorting to lazy, sneering, dismissive insults of any one who did not agree (Ben Hur says hi).

Those views was shared by many if not all in the press, including IIRC Gary Lyon. Now most still would take NN probably but that view is shifting and maybe by the end of say next year, if Watts has two big seasons, a lot more people might say Watts was the right choice.

I think there is a lesson there in the current debate around Wines v the Toump and the looming Kelly v Tyson/Salem discussion. Most DL posters and football commentators are pretty adamant we made the wrong call. Which may prove to be correct as Wines has obvious footy smarts and can play (though i think there is some validity in the argument that he has hit a high level very early and may not get much better - not that he needs to). However as the NN v Watts example shows things can change and the absolutes that get sprouted by self professed football experts can be proven to be hollow.

Edited April 15, 2014 by binman

[DeeSpencer 24,669]

I think I'll take Roosy's opinion of Watts over yours, if that's ok with you.

You obviously get blinded by style over substance. Wow look how high he can jump; wow look how fast he can run; wow he hasn't had a kick this half but doesn't he look good, even if he hasn't done a thing.

Early in his career he got two lucky goals in a game and had about a handful of kicks, but the suckers were giving him votes as best on ground.

Smoke and Mirrors.

Exactly how many games has he won by a piece of play; dare I say, none.

What is Roos going to say about Watts? Watts is talented, he has a lot of potential but very little of it has been unlocked so far. He was an important signing for the club. He was victimised by the previous coach. Of course Roos is going to pump him up and then get to work developing him. So far he's 1 good game, 2 just ok ones, 1 shocker. Not many have height, speed and the occasional perfect silky kick but outside mid who doesn't rack up many touches, doesn't win contested ball, doesn't tackle etc, they are a dime a dozen.

Here's Nic Nat winning a game. Can you remember it?

One man clearances, goals out of the ruck, perfect forward ruck taps, big marks.

Right now due to form or injury or both he's a very average player. But he's had runs of form particularly in 2011 and 2012 where even with little on the stats sheets by marks or possessions he's been a very good player. No way is he worth 1mil per year. Yes his AA was pretty soft, I didn't agree with it. No way can you confidently say he's a future star as his development has stalled. But he's still got all that's needed to be an above average ruckman, he's already been that and the highlights package is just a bonus.

[P-man 13,366]

Spot on, master.

The AA call was certainly premature and was justified, remarkably, by him being the best partner for Cox, rather than purely on his own merits. But he still had a very good year in his principle role: being an effective tap ruckman. Since when has being a brilliant kick come into that equation?

Both Watts and NicNat still have plenty of upside and oh my god why are we discussing this AGAIN...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

i remember some media p-ick (having the audacity to) ask Bailey about Watts v NicNat -and bailey said that the comparisons are going to go on for their whole career, and cited Ball/Judd/Hodge as an example - obviously Bails was completely right, NicNat started in front due to an inflated depiction by the media but at this moment Watts is clearly the better asset, i'd wager any coach would pick watts first if choosing a side tomorrow, but there is 6-7-8 years to go before it is decided

[What 18,810]

Good to see them talking up Jack Viney on FC

Hard to believe hes only played around 10 games and has had a lot of injury interruptions

What a gun player

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Good to see them talking up Jack Viney on FC

Hard to believe hes only played around 10 games and has had a lot of injury interruptions

What a gun player

what they say? The kid is an absolute beauty.

[whatwhat say what 22,031]

they basically said that his attack on the contest is exemplary, and lloyd couldn't believe how much better a 10-game player can make a team look.

[Akum 2,660]

If a career was ever judged by highlight reels, NikNat's would be one of the best of all time.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Why do everyone compare Watts to Nic Nat.

It's like comparing Apples and oranges.

One is a Ruckman that is the only position he will play.

The other was recruited as a KPF, which wasn't a success.

But on current form could be the best link man in the business.

If he perseveres on the wing, I can see him being the go to man coming out of defence.

This followed by deadly accurate disposal to a leading forward.

A very valuable commodity.

[ManDee 7,124]

What is Roos going to say about Watts? Watts is talented, he has a lot of potential but very little of it has been unlocked so far. He was an important signing for the club. He was victimised by the previous coach. Of course Roos is going to pump him up and then get to work developing him. So far he's 1 good game, 2 just ok ones, 1 shocker. Not many have height, speed and the occasional perfect silky kick but outside mid who doesn't rack up many touches, doesn't win contested ball, doesn't tackle etc, they are a dime a dozen.

Here's Nic Nat winning a game. Can you remember it?

One man clearances, goals out of the ruck, perfect forward ruck taps, big marks.

Right now due to form or injury or both he's a very average player. But he's had runs of form particularly in 2011 and 2012 where even with little on the stats sheets by marks or possessions he's been a very good player. No way is he worth 1mil per year. Yes his AA was pretty soft, I didn't agree with it. No way can you confidently say he's a future star as his development has stalled. But he's still got all that's needed to be an above average ruckman, he's already been that and the highlights package is just a bonus.

Wow highlights package from 2011 that's a while ago. And gee whiz didn't see more than 1 highlight in a game. One trick pony like we have been saying. In four games this year Cam Pedersons stats are better than Nic Nat, he might be injured you say, he is playing and his coach said he will play again this week. Overated show pony.

PS. Do I remember him winning the game round 8 last year? 18 disposals 6 marks Effective disposals 50% 1 goal. He kicked the last goal, did he win the match? at 50% disposal efficiency? I doubt it. And that was his best game for the year, 2 brownlow votes. (less than Jack Watts)

Edited April 16, 2014 by ManDee

[What 18,810]

what they say? The kid is an absolute beauty.

37:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GWc1BNBn8U

[ManDee 7,124]

I agree with Gary Lyon. NicNat overated.

And Viney will be a gun.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

37:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GWc1BNBn8U

the viney don't argues are [censored] amazing.

And Loydy is right, i have seen Viney give some ripper sprays to players not doing the simple, right things. The fundamentals.

[Loyal Royal 1]

Somewhere along the line it was said that Nic Nat does the extraordinary now it is time for him to do the ordinary.

[dees189227 12,017]

its a shame we didnt get to hear what Matthew Lloyd was going to say. He agreed with Gary but Hutchy wouldnt let him put his point in.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

nicnat's played 92 games and he averages 4.5 kicks a game, that is an absolute disgrace, has to be the lowest in the competition

yeah superstar

[Carlos Danger 380]

Stats can be deceiving when you're sharing ruck duties with probably the best ruckman in the competition, especially with where the game is at now (sub rule, capped interchange).

I'd put him on the MFC list in a heartbeat, whatever the cost.