Who will emerge as our #1 ruckman this year? Who will be #1 in 5 years?

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Rubbish. Jamar can't kick. He's constantly injured and getting too old. Spencer is an [censored] and has no football ability. Fitzpatrick is the only one with any talent. Gawn is a gawkish joke possibly could play for under 14s. King is as yet an unknown quantity but nowhere near afl yet.

For God's sake, what standard of a ruckman do we need? Are you suggesting we play Fitzpatrick as no.1 ruck? If you haven't noticed any improvement from from Spencer since he first started you're a fool. He can clearly win a tap and cover the ground, and is better at ground level than he used to be. We don't need a Dean Cox, just someone with decent stamina who can provide a contest. Jamar can still win taps, but is on decline with his endurance/aerobic capacity. Spencer is our best bet ATM

[Lord Travis 10,697]

Bumped into Jamar today and had a chat for a few minutes. Very friendly guy. He said he would be right for Round 1, but whether they give him a week or two match practice first they have not decided and it may depend on the form of the other rucks. His calf has been giving him niggles, so he has been rehab a lot of preseason. Said he will mainly be sharing ruck duties with Spencer this year, but expects both Gawn and King to be very good in the future. Asked about Fitzy and he said Fitzy will play forward unless there is an emergency.

Anyway, as I said he was a very nice guy and was good for a chat. Hopefully he can recapture his 2010 form, but who knows after coming back from injury and being a bit older now.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I agree with most that Clark won't be rucking much this year (lack of fitness/injury concern). Longterm I would like Clark to just play stints in the ruck (30%) and while Clark rucks our no.1 ruck rests at FF (Gawn). Clark is so dangerous up forward (on another level compared to Dawes/Fitzy/Hogan). Obviously if we are really struggling to get the ball forward of centre or Dawes/hogan/Fitz are killing it then Clark could go into the ruck. I think we should still draft another 1-2 ruckman this year as I don't see Jamar or spencer as premiership players. We can always let the less promising one go after 2 years.

I hope to see Gawn take the no.1 ruck role but as others have said he needs to improve his tank, use his height in the ruck and improve his tap work.

From our current rucks, Max has the most potential. He needs to improve his ruck work and tank (misses at lot of training, is so often in rehab) but he is an outstanding mark up forward. Potentially a Paul,Salmon type. Now that would be something. He still has a way to go but I think he WILL be our number 1 ruckman in our next premiership

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Which Max?!

I actually see the most potential in Max King. And that's based on one pre season NAB Cup game. Hence, my concern about our ruck stocks.

Gawn has shown a bit, and I like him. But he really should be more advanced than he is IMO.

I don't know what to think about Spencer. He looks awkward, but he often surprises me with his effectiveness/competitiveness.

In short, I'd really like to know what the inside word on these players is. I find it interesting that we didn't draft Jolly given his availability - that alone causes me to think my concerns are a little unfounded.

As an aside, I can't believe the Pies managed to land Brodie Grundy with pick 18 in the 2012 draft. He'd be perfect for us. That hurts.

[Macca 16,922]

If he's fit, Clark. His foot will need to hold up no matter what position he plays.

Hogan, Dawes and Fitzpatrick could be used in a rotating* fashion in the forward line (FF, FP & CHF or perhaps 2 talls across half forward) Any of those 3 could do the ruckwork in the forward line and Fitzy could give Clark a chop out in the ruck for short periods of time. If it's not Clark in the ruck, we may end up using any of our other choices until one of them makes the position his own.

Regardless of whether Clark rucks or not, I believe Roos will possibly rotate our talls around our forward line.

*Jack Clarke used Blethyn, Noonan and Fordham in a rotating fashion with the Bomber's forward line in the late 60's. It's not hard to envisage history repeating itself with our bevy of tall forwards.

[Biffen 12,940]

For Gawn conclusion.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

Which Max?!

I actually see the most potential in Max King. And that's based on one pre season NAB Cup game. Hence, my concern about our ruck stocks.

Gawn has shown a bit, and I like him. But he really should be more advanced than he is IMO.

I don't know what to think about Spencer. He looks awkward, but he often surprises me with his effectiveness/competitiveness.

In short, I'd really like to know what the inside word on these players is. I find it interesting that we didn't draft Jolly given his availability - that alone causes me to think my concerns are a little unfounded.

As an aside, I can't believe the Pies managed to land Brodie Grundy with pick 18 in the 2012 draft. He'd be perfect for us. That hurts.

No way Gawn should be more advanced. Just turned 22 and missed a year with an ACL. He's tracking fine. Played some top games last year when he finally got the chance to be the number 1.

I like King but he's hopeless in the ruck, has little endurance and really didn't do anything too amazing in the NAB challenge game (the goal was lovely). What he has shown is he's got some talent and he's a brilliant kick. But that's really a bit irrelevant until he can at least show he's physically ready for VFL seniors yet alone AFL.

Jolly...No way! First the guys a serial whinger. But besides that he's just the same as Jamar. Why have 2 of the same things. Spencer and Gawn will both be capable of measuring up most games. I just have my concerns about whether they'll stop the best rucks and whether they'll break even against some mediocre guys. But there'd both a decent future and ok for now.

Grundy looks very good. But he was an exception as such a ready made big guy in terms of physique. I'm pretty convinced he dropped so low in the draft for a combination of factors. The first is if you already have good young prospects you don't need him. I'd love Grundy instead of Spencer. And take a Grundy for Gawn trade even though I really like Maxy. But given the state of our midfield I wouldn't have used pick 18 on him unless you could gaurantee a decent pick when off loading Spencer. I think a lot of teams thought the same if they already had ruck options why get another. The other big concern I think must be his attitude. His fiery on the field and opinionated and unique off the field. Chances are he's just a confident brash young guy who we could do with but it could also be he crosses the line sometimes. I wonder if he'd qualify for Roos' famous no DH policy.

Edited February 23, 2014 by the master

[Demon 16 209]

Clark needs to be our power forward.

I wouldn't want to see him in the ruck very often at all.

[Little Goffy 14,458]

From the day he was recruited it looked like Clark's mission was to cover the key forward position until a kid developed into it and then move into the ruck position once Jamar retired, to cover it until one of our young ruck possibles developed into that role. Presumably then swinging between the two like a champion with a licence to kill.

Certainly, barring a major form return from Jamar or an excellent lift from an injury-free Gawn, it seems the ruck is where Clark is needed most. But he has been so good as a forward (when available) that it'd be hard to ask him to move away from that. Plus, I'm sure the details of different injury risks in ruck vs forward would be considered thoroughly.

I don't see Fitzpatrick as a full-time ruck but his presence would certainly be helpful if we were relying on Gawn for the main load. And surely Max King can't be expected to take on the major portion of AFL ruck duties. We have enough chronically injured talls already.

So,

IF Jamar returns to form, then Jamar. But that seems like a big if right now.

IF Gawn builds some confidence from playing a strong of games, and starts to deliver throughout games, then I believe he has the most overall potential of our ruck group.

IF all else fails, Spencer definitely has a go, but to me he just doesn't quite reach AFL expectations at the moment. Another of our 'too good for VFL, not quite there for AFL'.

IF Spencer doesn't work out for whatever reason, then it might be time to put Clark back in the ruck.

That's my ruck view for 2014.

In 5 years? I'm still optimistic about Max Gawn, other than that it looks like draft or trade, whic is obviously too speculative.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I didn't think I'd ever utter these words. Ssspeeenceeeerrr.

From what I saw in the Intraclub he is head and shoulders over the others in all facets of ruckwork.

He is a beautiful exponent of tap ruckwork. Has bulk and a big tank.

He just needs to cultivate a football brain and get that talking to his feet.

As who will be our No. 1 in 5 years.

I always thought Max Gawn was the Heir Apparent. His attitude needs to lift to take on that role.

So the answer is NFI

[old dee 23,781]

I didn't think I'd ever utter these words. Ssspeeenceeeerrr.

From what I saw in the Intraclub he is head and shoulders over the others in all facets of ruckwork.

He is a beautiful exponent of tap ruckwork. Has bulk and a big tank.

He just needs to cultivate a football brain and get that talking to his feet.

As who will be our No. 1 in 5 years.

I always thought Max Gawn was the Heir Apparent. His attitude needs to lift to take on that role.

So the answer is NFI

Love your honesty Chippy.

I think you have covered my thoughts.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I didn't think I'd ever utter these words. Ssspeeenceeeerrr.

From what I saw in the Intraclub he is head and shoulders over the others in all facets of ruckwork.

He is a beautiful exponent of tap ruckwork. Has bulk and a big tank.

He just needs to cultivate a football brain and get that talking to his feet.

As who will be our No. 1 in 5 years.

I always thought Max Gawn was the Heir Apparent. His attitude needs to lift to take on that role.

So the answer is NFI

What do you base that on? The fact he has a beard and he had a big night in China a few years back? No doubt Gawn is a bit of a larrikin but I think he takes his footy pretty seriously and is always training hard. Injuries have just meant he hasn't got the preseasons under the belt yet. Last year he badly ran out of puff on a super wet night in a hard slog of a game rucking against Minson. Besides that he competed with some other top rucks without any fitness issues. And that was coming off a bad hamstring injury that needed a lot of rest. This year he's done a more minor hamstring injury early in preseason and has been building throughout.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

What do you base that on? The fact he has a beard and he had a big night in China a few years back? No doubt Gawn is a bit of a larrikin but I think he takes his footy pretty seriously and is always training hard. Injuries have just meant he hasn't got the preseasons under the belt yet. Last year he badly ran out of puff on a super wet night in a hard slog of a game rucking against Minson. Besides that he competed with some other top rucks without any fitness issues. And that was coming off a bad hamstring injury that needed a lot of rest. This year he's done a more minor hamstring injury early in preseason and has been building throughout.

1. you have got to be kidding!

2. You are now getting a bit closer to the mark. He has had a minor hamstring strain and has taken nearly 3 months to get over it.

I saw him in the intraclub and he didn't really want to jump in the ruck. I know he was taking it easy because it was his first run, but it was the first run for others as well and they put in hard. Gawn has 2 gears when he plays GO and Whoa. He needs to get some consistency.

[CityDee 738]

I hope that Big Maxy and Jake will share the title. Both seem to be great characters and are improving at speed. Wouldn't surprise me If we traded in a Ruck if Jamar cant get back this year.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

No way Gawn should be more advanced. Just turned 22 and missed a year with an ACL. He's tracking fine. Played some top games last year when he finally got the chance to be the number 1. I like King but he's hopeless in the ruck, has little endurance and really didn't do anything too amazing in the NAB challenge game (the goal was lovely).

You do understand why he battled in a one on one dual in the ruck vs Richmond though don't you... ?

He is a skinny kid who was rucking and body-ing against hardened senior men. What on earth did you expect?

I don't know what you're seeing Master, he showed plenty of encouraging signs. He's skill set for a man of his height puts Spencer's to shame. Spencer has been on our list for how many years? And he still makes the most simple of errors which are detrimental at times.

Max showed some fantastic signs. His hands below his feet,

field kicking, and awareness for a ruckman were really promising. He needs at least 4 years in the gym before we see him being able to match it physically with the big boys..

[Ted Lasso 19,307]

One think i really like is big jakey spencers chase and tackle, it's a huge asset, he makes some fundemental skill errors but most young ruckman do, i think he and Gawn will both develop into quality ruckman for us

[daisycutter 29,604]

One think i really like is big jakey spencers chase and tackle, it's a huge asset, he makes some fundemental skill errors but most young ruckman do, i think he and Gawn will both develop into quality ruckman for us

i wouldn't call jake young. he is 24

rucks may take more time but that doesn't make them young when 24 years old and in their 7th season

[Ted Lasso 19,307]

i wouldn't call jake young. he is 24

rucks may take more time but that doesn't make them young when 24 years old and in their 7th season

24 isn't real old haha

[daisycutter 29,604]

24 isn't real old haha

neither young nor old...true

[Ted Lasso 19,307]

neither young nor old...true

either way they should make a team rule that they just don't let him kick the ball haha

[daisycutter 29,604]

either way they should make a team rule that they just don't let him kick the ball haha

he'll probably play quite a few games this year (and yes i hope he is training up his handball

but not because he is a good ruckman, simply lack of good options

we are not in good shape re ruckmen

i had high hopes for maxxy but he is not coming on as hoped and i worry about two knee reco's for a big man

if max king is to be any good it is quite a few years off

we might be looking around for an experienced ruck at the end of the year

[old dee 23,781]

24 isn't real old haha

I am old!

being 25 is a real Pain!

Edited February 26, 2014 by old dee

[old dee 23,781]

he'll probably play quite a few games this year (and yes i hope he is training up his handball

but not because he is a good ruckman, simply lack of good options

we are not in good shape re ruckmen

i had high hopes for maxxy but he is not coming on as hoped and i worry about two knee reco's for a big man

if max king is to be any good it is quite a few years off

we might be looking around for an experienced ruck at the end of the year

Gawn not named for Friday.

No Dawes, no Clark

Spencer must think it is his birthday.

[Webber 10,454]

All this garbage about Max Gawn 'not coming on as he should have', and being vulnerable because he's had both knees reconstructed. He's the second tallest person on the entire AFL list. He's just turned 22. He's only now starting to get a man's physique, and endurance capacity, which will take another 3 to 4 years to be consistent through a game and season. There's a lack of insight into the long term development of the big guys on here. They only become valuable at around 25, and have a 5 to 6 year career span. The contrast being the Brent Harvey/Nathan Jones type midfielder.

As to the knee recons.....ACL reconstructions are no indication of general vulnerability. Nor is the incidence of re-rupture is any greater than would be the case for a non-reconstructed knee.

All of which speaks to the fact that impatience and frustration leads us to make ignorant and poor judgements on players who are either too young to be judged against 150+ gamers, or just plain unlucky with injuries.

Given his age and injury history to this point, and what he has shown in the matches he's played, I reckon the MFC coaches would be very VERY excited about the future of Max Gawn, but I'm equally sur they'd tell us to temper that excitement for another 3 years or so.

[old dee 23,781]

All this garbage about Max Gawn 'not coming on as he should have', and being vulnerable because he's had both knees reconstructed. He's the second tallest person on the entire AFL list. He's just turned 22. He's only now starting to get a man's physique, and endurance capacity, which will take another 3 to 4 years to be consistent through a game and season. There's a lack of insight into the long term development of the big guys on here. They only become valuable at around 25, and have a 5 to 6 year career span. The contrast being the Brent Harvey/Nathan Jones type midfielder.

As to the knee recons.....ACL reconstructions are no indication of general vulnerability. Nor is the incidence of re-rupture is any greater than would be the case for a non-reconstructed knee.

All of which speaks to the fact that impatience and frustration leads us to make ignorant and poor judgements on players who are either too young to be judged against 150+ gamers, or just plain unlucky with injuries.

Given his age and injury history to this point, and what he has shown in the matches he's played, I reckon the MFC coaches would be very VERY excited about the future of Max Gawn, but I'm equally sur they'd tell us to temper that excitement for another 3 years or so.

That being the case can we swap him for someone who is ready now please.

I might not be around that long down the track.