Melbourne Turns to Meditation under Roos

[ding 5,126]

HaHaha fail.

I'd like to be in the hippy set, but there hard to find these days. I'm in to alternative, & western medicines, & health ideas... homeopathy? not for me; so I think you may be way off line re the "hippy set".

That made no sense at all...

[rjay 23,957]

if I remember correctly, Dr.Rudi was considered to be quite a success at North before Barass brought him to the Dees

North were successful because they brought in the right cattle, Rudi had noting to do with it. Of course like all sheep in the VFL/AFL everyone wanted to get the latest snake oil, think altitude training and you'll get my drift.

[deanox 8,713]

...this thread did not set out a case for homeopathy, so that a categoric evaluation of homeopathy could be based on a reading of the thread...

Even on the basis of the placebo effect, homeopathy has to be conceded to produce SOME positive benefits...

I don't want to derail this thread about meditation with discussion about homeopathy, but for my personal interest and in the interest of fairness (considering I put my 2 cents worth in) I would like to hear your case for homeopathy to see how it could possibly be justified.

And I'd be interested to read any studies that show why it has to be conceded that it produces some benefits, if you can provide them. My understanding is that they don't really exist; any positive effects are rarely observed, and when they are they are the result of chance, bias or placebo, and certainly not statistically significant enough to be considered real.

[deanox 8,713]

While I agree with you generally, I'd like to know what you think of PhDs in subjects like Theology.

My problem isn't with the study of meditation. It is with the study of something that is genuine rubbish (ie astrology) with absolutely no basis and then awarding a degree in it.

Theology is a worthy and genuine academic field. It is the rational study of religion, religious deities, texts and traditions and can involve research and interpretation and comparison. It is rigorously academically tested; you can't write a Theology PhD thesis saying "god is real and he is the best and he preformed miracles", because a) it can't be academically defended and b) isn't academic discussion. You could write a thesis discussing the purpose of religious beliefs, or identifying and understanding the reason for contradictory statements within religious texts etc.

Meditation is a genuine and worthy topic. Its effects are studied by psychologists. Mental health, placebo effects, the importance and benefits of mental strength etc are all worthy topics studied at universities by PhD students in fields like psychology.

But Parapsychic Sciences is a croc that has no basis of truth. It could be studied in a scientific manner I.e. hypotheses, tested, proved/disproved, but that isn't what this Parapsychic Science course does. It teaches astrology, divination tools and other concepts as facts.

Here is the course outline and subject list for that program. http://www.aiht.edu/catalog/parapsychic_courses.asp#dpp312

There is nothing scientific about any of it. And it appears that you earn a bachelor's degree with 60 course hours, and PhD with 180 hours.

[monoccular 16,273]

Let's see how the two protocols end up in comparison: Roos - meditation; Hird - medication

One is legal, one is not for starters

[dee-luded 2,958]

They need not worry about such earthly matters.

their focus must be on the work itself.

I'm not sure if you don't realise what you just wrote,,, or if you Do?

.... this is very accurate; & is at the basis of meditation, & those mind cultures, for its that fear, that births the worries, anxieties, negative inner chatter (whether the individual is aware of theirs or not)... this fear creates a resistance of it (defensiveness), & this forced resistance of those fears keeps them held down. The effort to continually hold them down & silence them, takes enormous inner energy, & is a huge distraction from achieving your goals.

This saps focus, & inhibits growth, maturity, & arrests achievement.

Edited December 1, 2013 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,958]

That made no sense at all...

i'm not surprised, 'ding'.

[PaulRB 5,985]

Attended the AFL Victoria community football media awards yesterday where Mike Sheahan was the guest speaker. After giving a really engaging talk for 30 minutes, Mike took questions from the floor & someone asked him what he thought Paul Roos would do for the group as coach, & when he (Sheahan) had first thought Roos was interested in the job.

He said after they film 'On The Couch' they head to Lamaro's for a few 'post-show frothies'. He said the debate was going on about Melbourne's list (as it often did) with everyone putting in their two-bobs worth except Roos, who sat back, just listening. Sheahan said there was then a pause where no one spoke for a second, and Roos piped up & said, 'you know, Melbourne's list isn't as bad as you think'. He said Roos & Alistair Lynch (who was also there) then proceeded to put together their best 22 on Lynch's phone, with Roos giving a full synopsis on each players' strengths & weaknesses, how he'd play players differently etc. Sheahan said Roos' clear knowledge & research of the younger 'unknowns' said to him that despite Roos indicating to that point he wasn't interested in the role, he was already clearly informed on the entire list, beyond that of someone who wasn't interested in coaching the club.

Speaking specifically about certain players, Sheahan said Roos said that Jack Watts has until now believed he's been working hard, but that this summer he'd truly discover what hard 2-way running was & that he would 'vomit more in the next 3 months than he has in his life'.

Like ^^^

Meditation works to quiet the mind allowing better focus and intuitive action to rise...

Might also help Jack to cope with vomiting "more in the next 3 months than he has in his life" hee hee hee

Bring it on Roosy!

Edited December 1, 2013 by PaulRB

[ding 5,126]

i'm not surprised, 'ding'.

Your name is an obvious insight into your personality.

[ding 5,126]

I know of a successful PhD thesis that canvassed the New Testament words related to "healing", offering (a believer's) commonplaces that were less illuminating than the average fringey Pentecostal book on the topic. The Classics Department who assessed it were in unfamiliar territory, and liked the set-out... I did Graduate studies in Theology, and I think you'd be disappointed at what a lot of the higher degree topics are.

If I remember it correctly, Melbourne College of Divinity closed down its undergraduate programme because overseas students (mostly Asian, with very little awareness of the basics of Christian thinking) swamped the courses. They simply wanted to add to their CV's a degree taken out in an English-speaking country, and they couldn't get into anything else. Complicating the matter for MCD was the fact that they were paying fees; but in any case their presence lowered the possible level of teaching and discussion to such an extent that the College eventually just gave up - couldn't stomach what their own courses had become, is my take on it.

At least Mrs Roos' course was presumably full of students who wanted to be there, and had come to learn more about something that really mattered to them. Likely enough the majority were not motivated by earning prospects later on. Who knows what course will actually be good?

Theology studies..... Now i know why you are prepared to believe in stuff without any evidence.

Homeopaths should be jailed for fraud. Selling plain water and calling it a cure is just that. Inexcusable lies, fed to people who are gullible at best, or just plain stupid.

Where is your evidence for Homeopathic "cures"?

Edited December 1, 2013 by ding

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I can sense that this thread will go into some funky places.

Call me a prophet.

[Demon_spurs 1,683]

I understand you can get the same effect by slapping 2 Paul Salmons together

[dee-luded 2,958]

I know of a successful PhD thesis that canvassed the New Testament words related to "healing", offering (a believer's) commonplaces that were less illuminating than the average fringey Pentecostal book on the topic. The Classics Department who assessed it were in unfamiliar territory, and liked the set-out... I did Graduate studies in Theology, and I think you'd be disappointed at what a lot of the higher degree topics are.

If I remember it correctly, Melbourne College of Divinity closed down its undergraduate programme because overseas students (mostly Asian, with very little awareness of the basics of Christian thinking) swamped the courses. They simply wanted to add to their CV's a degree taken out in an English-speaking country, and they couldn't get into anything else. Complicating the matter for MCD was the fact that they were paying fees; but in any case their presence lowered the possible level of teaching and discussion to such an extent that the College eventually just gave up - couldn't stomach what their own courses had become, is my take on it.

At least Mrs Roos' course was presumably full of students who wanted to be there, and had come to learn more about something that really mattered to them. Likely enough the majority were not motivated by earning prospects later on. Who knows what course will actually be good?

I believe meditation has been a practiced part of Christianity down thru the centuries also?

[dee-luded 2,958]

Your name is an obvious insight into your personality.

hahaha original, well played ding. but your still none the wiser.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

*Awaits newspaper cartoon of the players on floor mats with Paul Roos as some sort of spiritual entity in robes* And some quirky dialogue I can't think of at the moment

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

According to Josh Mahoney on SEN this morning, it is actually Tami Roos who conducts the meditation sessions with the players.

[Redleg 37,897]

According to Josh Mahoney on SEN this morning, it is actually Tami Roos who conducts the meditation sessions with the players.

Think I predicted this months ago.

[old dee 22,946]

According to Josh Mahoney on SEN this morning, it is actually Tami Roos who conducts the meditation sessions with the players.

probably subcontracts the service to PR and gets the tax level down.

[Biffen 12,373]

I thought Guru Bob might make a comeback.

[Sir Why You Little 34,688]

I thought Guru Bob might make a comeback.

"Hello Tony...."

[old dee 22,946]

I hope Tami has a team to work with her at the MFC.

Seems a job that needs way more than one person.

Edited December 2, 2013 by old dee

[Webber 10,178]

I don't want to derail this thread about meditation with discussion about homeopathy, but for my personal interest and in the interest of fairness (considering I put my 2 cents worth in) I would like to hear your case for homeopathy to see how it could possibly be justified.And I'd be interested to read any studies that show why it has to be conceded that it produces some benefits, if you can provide them. My understanding is that they don't really exist; any positive effects are rarely observed, and when they are they are the result of chance, bias or placebo, and certainly not statistically significant enough to be considered real.

It is true as you say deanox that homeopathy has no statistically significant effect BEYOND placebo. This can be confirmed by looking at any number of 'double-blind controlled trials' performed worldwide on homeopathic 'substances', or what we would happily call 'water'. However, the placebo effect is provably acknowledged as being about 60% of any 'therapeutic' intervention, so as homeopathy is, unfortunately for those of us who value science, an intervention, it is piggybacking on placebo. And this, coupled with desperation, ignorance and gullibility, is why rubbish therapies exist, and always will.

Meditation makes for scientifically measurable improvements in both psychological parameters and at certain levels, physical health measures, reducing hypertension (high blood pressure) being one of the most obvious examples. Experienced 'meditators' can have extraordinary skills and measurable changes to their physiology. Buddhist monks, being the superstars of meditation, have measurably larger parts of their brain associated with contentment or happiness than us mere mortals for example. Much like hypnotic suggestion, meditation can alter the physical state, ( e.g. Non chemical anaesthetisation ), all through the power of the mind!

Very quickly then you get into the whole area of consciousness theory, and the other abilities humans and sentient animals have that have historically been thought of as being bull***t by that part of the scientific community unable to move beyond the limitations of classical (or Newtonian) physics. These abilities have impenetrable scientific validity at measurable levels, such as psychokinesis, precognition, and telepathy. Whilst they definably exist, the explanation for them is purely theoretical via quantum physics, and whilst pure, beautiful and absolute, I'm not smart enough that quantum doesn't make my brain hurt. It's all very well to know that something happens (sun rises in the east every morning), but we grant it either mystical status or just dismiss it if we don't know HOW it happens. This has been the history of science. We just struggle to accept the reality that some phenomena even exist, despite experimentally repeatable evidence that it does, until we know why and how. Then we work it out, and it becomes 'valid'. Mrs.Roos is however dealing in unadulterated fantasy with things astrology, numerology and whatever. But hey, if it makes her happy!

A bit off topic? Oops!

[Biffen 12,373]

"Hello Tony...."

Yeeees MMMMMMM.....

I support the Melbourne Club,MMMMMMMMMM.

The problem is discipline Tony ,DISCIPLINE!

Do you hear me?

[Sir Why You Little 34,688]

Yeeees MMMMMMM.....

I support the Melbourne Club,MMMMMMMMMM.

The problem is discipline Tony ,DISCIPLINE!

Do you hear me?

Ivan was a hero to us all.

[TRIGON 4,719]

On the subject of meditation I was reading the other day about a theory (controversial) of Quantum Consciousness (orchestrated object reduction) being put forward by scientists (Stuart Hameroff in particular) who have done a lot of work with microtubules, small structures found in cells, including neurons. They are suggesting that we experience reality through a series of conscious moments driven by quantum processes at a rate of about 40Hz. Hameroff claims that experienced meditators (and Michael Jordan) run at a higher clock rate so experience more reality per second than the rest of us and why, for Jordan, time seems to slow down when he is in the zone.

A controversial theory, interesting to see how it pans out in further research.

(do I need to get out more?)

Edited December 2, 2013 by I Give a Gawnski