Barrett peddling his usual crap about the Demons

[InVINCEable 358]

He is an absolute moron he pretty much said we are idiots because we traded a second round pick for Bernie Vince... *sigh*

[InVINCEable 358]

love how full of himself this guy is, thinks he knows more than bloody Paul Roos a guy who has won a premiership, coached in two, and won All Australian coach, Barrett should just quit, absolute moron!

I hate that guy with a passion any time he can think of a way to attack us he does, we would be in the top 3 for trade period, he is just an utter and complete [censored], tbh i like Caroline Wilson more than that [censored].

[InVINCEable 358]

I find it funny that he gives us a d- but yet gives Hawthorn a, losing one of the best to play the game, but don't worry they got an average ruckman with a good mark, wake up Barrett.

[hardtack 10,127]

I find it funny that he gives us a d- but yet gives Hawthorn a, losing one of the best to play the game, but don't worry they got an average ruckman with a good mark, wake up Barrett.

Can't be bothered watching the entire video... anyone know what he rated North Melb's efforts?

[Steve13 457]

Why are we so worried about what outsiders think of our club?

Are we happy? Is the club happy? Why does it matter?

[Schneider 220]

Why are we so worried about what outsiders think of our club?

Are we happy? Is the club happy? Why does it matter?

Because perception matters and some players might actually listen to this [censored] and think twice about joining us.

He has such a [censored] for Nth Melbourne it's embarrassing.

[Pipefitter 2,016]

He has got to learn his place in the footy jungle. At being a dirt finding, looking through ben cousins rubbish bin, new idea trash journalist he is the best in the business. But for him to understand a good drafting strategy? Spare me. Such a [censored].

[Hannibal 5,814]

I am surprised by the negativity towards Bernie Vince and pick 23. The consensus seems to be that Sylvia could be a star and Vince is no great loss for Adelaide. By any measure Vince has had a better career than Sylvia. He's averaged more disposals, been a better midfielder, was BOG in their NAB cup win a few years ago, won the medal for being BOG in their local derby with PA and has won a B&F. He has a reputation for being a "big game player". Sylvia has kicked more goals over his career, as you'd expect, because Vince has played more of a midfield role. And we need mids. Although Vince is actually a good goal kicking mid with a handy goals per game average.

Dal Santo is regarded as a "boom recruit" for North. He plays all of next year as a 30 year old. Vince plays all of next year as a 28 year old. Dal Santo is a better player than Vince and I reckon Dal Santo is a good get for North, but the chasm isn't as large as is being portrayed. Over the last two years Dal Santo has averaged 24 disposals and Vince 20.6. Dal Santo has kicked 22 goals and Vince 31. Those extra 3.4 disposals per game to Dal over the last two years confirm that he is a higher production mid, but if anyone knows Vince's game they'll also know that he has a very high kick to handball ratio and doesn't miss targets. You want the ball in Bernie's hands.

In case anyone is interested Sylvia has averaged 18.7 disposals in the same time and kicked 24 goals.

Vince is one of the reasons we're being marked down, while North gets a boom recruit (definitely a good get - especially for nothing) and Sylvia is being hailed as a potential star and the reason Freo are given an A- trade period rating. It just doesn't make sense.

The class of pick 23 since the year 2,000:

Petrie, Gardiner, Lonergan, Moody, Rusling, Cook, Stewart, Pears, Zaharakis, Stevens, Guthrie, Newman, Paparone.

The first is the best and Zaharakis, Lonergan and Guthrie are good gets and Paparone shows promise. But I'm just as happy to get a very good 50-60 games out of Vince, especially considering where we've been and that we MUST start winning games of footy and improving the whole club's morale.

Yes, Sylvia cost nothing too. But from a pure in versus out give me Vince any day of the week.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

That's a really good, insightful post Ben - thanks. I've been wondering whether we could've picked up Vince and not lost Sylvia. Probably not. And should we have had a big crack at Dal Santo in addition to the players we landed during the trade period? Dunno.

I think we've also been marked down for the Dom Tyson trade. Unfairly.

What some journos seem not to get is that, for the MFC in 2013, Dom Tyson and pick 9 in this draft is far more valuable to us than pick 2 alone. It's actually that simple.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I am surprised by the negativity towards Bernie Vince and pick 23. The consensus seems to be that Sylvia could be a star and Vince is no great loss for Adelaide. By any measure Vince has had a better career than Sylvia. He's averaged more disposals, been a better midfielder, was BOG in their NAB cup win a few years ago, won the medal for being BOG in their local derby with PA and has won a B&F. He has a reputation for being a "big game player". Sylvia has kicked more goals over his career, as you'd expect, because Vince has played more of a midfield role. And we need mids. Although Vince is actually a good goal kicking mid with a handy goals per game average.

Dal Santo is regarded as a "boom recruit" for North. He plays all of next year as a 30 year old. Vince plays all of next year as a 28 year old. Dal Santo is a better player than Vince and I reckon Dal Santo is a good get for North, but the chasm isn't as large as is being portrayed. Over the last two years Dal Santo has averaged 24 disposals and Vince 20.6. Dal Santo has kicked 22 goals and Vince 31. Those extra 3.4 disposals per game to Dal over the last two years confirm that he is a higher production mid, but if anyone knows Vince's game they'll also know that he has a very high kick to handball ratio and doesn't miss targets. You want the ball in Bernie's hands.

In case anyone is interested Sylvia has averaged 18.7 disposals in the same time and kicked 24 goals.

Vince is one of the reasons we're being marked down, while North gets a boom recruit (definitely a good get - especially for nothing) and Sylvia is being hailed as a potential star and the reason Freo are given an A- trade period rating. It just doesn't make sense.

The class of pick 23 since the year 2,000:

Petrie, Gardiner, Lonergan, Moody, Rusling, Cook, Stewart, Pears, Zaharakis, Stevens, Guthrie, Newman, Paparone.

The first is the best and Zaharakis, Lonergan and Guthrie are good gets and Paparone shows promise. But I'm just as happy to get a very good 50-60 games out of Vince, especially considering where we've been and that we MUST start winning games of footy and improving the whole club's morale.

EDIT: yes Sylvia cost nothing too. But from a pure in versus out give me Vince any day of the week.

People have rapidly forgotten what an inconsistent player Sylvia was and is. No-one has accused Vince of that. In fact he is widely seen as being "a big game player". Sylvia is far from that.

Further, our overwhelming need is gun mid- fielder. Vince fulfills that role far better than Sylvia, and so is a net gain for us.

We must all remember that Roos looks at our total requirements and recruits accordingly. On that basis, Vince is a huge plus for us. How it could be claimed otherwise is beyond me.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Dees2014

[Wunders 385]

I think we all have some biases in our opinions (it's hard not to be).

We are looking at it from a needs basis which we achieved. Others are looking at it from a critical basis, where we picked up:

• Vince who was worth pick 30-40 ish with pick 23.

1. Would Adelaide have accepted pick 41 in the end?
2. Would Adelaide have accepted Sylvia's compo pick if it was 3rd round? 39 ish? - i read a trade post that said they would no matter the compensation.

• Dom Tyson+pick9 who was worth pick 2-20 ish alone with pick 2 & 20.

1. Yes on his drafting years form compared to this years draft he is worth pick two easily.
2. But say he can't recapture that form (hasn't really dominated many games - look at his best 10 games stats - http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/D/Dom_Tyson.html) or he gets injured again for a third year with us.
3. His value would then be pick 10-30 ish by next years trade period.I think Richmond pick 15 ish would get the deal done alone.This is where D. Barrett is coming from. Whereas we think he alone is worth pick 2. upgrading from 20 to 9 is the win.

Hopefully by the end of next year the team is used to the game style Roosy has enforced and we are a competitive team

[Mac7 309]

The whole football world is obsessed with bagging every move we make.... Bloody hell we even got criticized for getting Roos!!

Soon we will start our march up the ladder, then they will shut up and forget what they said..... But we won't.

[Bingo 235]

Looking back at Roos' time in Sydney it is clear that he doesn't rate draft pick numbers as highly as most.

He has a history of paying overs for players in other peoples eyes. Jolly, Richards etc

Although what is evident is that Roos likes the known value of what he is bringing into the club, and has been very good at trading to fulfil his teams needs.

This trade period melbourne have significantly improved its midfield which was its glaring weakness, and because of that, we have done well.

Listening to Plough on trade radio yesterday banging on about the draft pick numbers of the Saints and how they've done so well is quite funny. At the end of the day those numbers need to be turned into players and as melbourne fans we can all agree that it can be a lottery.

I'm quite happy to try Roos' known quantity drafting for a while...

[T-34 409]

I think we all have some biases in our opinions (it's hard not to be).

We are looking at it from a needs basis which we achieved. Others are looking at it from a critical basis, where we picked up:

• Vince who was worth pick 30-40 ish with pick 23.

1. Would Adelaide have accepted pick 41 in the end?
2. Would Adelaide have accepted Sylvia's compo pick if it was 3rd round? 39 ish? - i read a trade post that said they would no matter the compensation.

• Dom Tyson+pick9 who was worth pick 2-20 ish alone with pick 2 & 20.

1. Yes on his drafting years form compared to this years draft he is worth pick two easily.
2. But say he can't recapture that form (hasn't really dominated many games - look at his best 10 games stats - http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/D/Dom_Tyson.html) or he gets injured again for a third year with us.
3. His value would then be pick 10-30 ish by next years trade period.I think Richmond pick 15 ish would get the deal done alone.This is where D. Barrett is coming from. Whereas we think he alone is worth pick 2. upgrading from 20 to 9 is the win.

Hopefully by the end of next year the team is used to the game style Roosy has enforced and we are a competitive team

Thanks for that explanation however determining what a player is worth in a trade is all relative and is clearly linked to a clubs needs and what they value a players potential to aid their team at.

Looking at it merely through stats is the biggest mistake made because the vision of where and how that player plays at one club could be completely different to the club who is bringing him in.

At this point in time I will back in Roos and co. over Barrett to get these choices right for the MFC and our needs.

[Guest]

I am surprised by the negativity towards Bernie Vince and pick 23. The consensus seems to be that Sylvia could be a star and Vince is no great loss for Adelaide. By any measure Vince has had a better career than Sylvia. He's averaged more disposals, been a better midfielder, was BOG in their NAB cup win a few years ago, won the medal for being BOG in their local derby with PA and has won a B&F. He has a reputation for being a "big game player". Sylvia has kicked more goals over his career, as you'd expect, because Vince has played more of a midfield role. And we need mids. Although Vince is actually a good goal kicking mid with a handy goals per game average.

Dal Santo is regarded as a "boom recruit" for North. He plays all of next year as a 30 year old. Vince plays all of next year as a 28 year old. Dal Santo is a better player than Vince and I reckon Dal Santo is a good get for North, but the chasm isn't as large as is being portrayed. Over the last two years Dal Santo has averaged 24 disposals and Vince 20.6. Dal Santo has kicked 22 goals and Vince 31. Those extra 3.4 disposals per game to Dal over the last two years confirm that he is a higher production mid, but if anyone knows Vince's game they'll also know that he has a very high kick to handball ratio and doesn't miss targets. You want the ball in Bernie's hands.

In case anyone is interested Sylvia has averaged 18.7 disposals in the same time and kicked 24 goals.

Vince is one of the reasons we're being marked down, while North gets a boom recruit (definitely a good get - especially for nothing) and Sylvia is being hailed as a potential star and the reason Freo are given an A- trade period rating. It just doesn't make sense.

The class of pick 23 since the year 2,000:

Petrie, Gardiner, Lonergan, Moody, Rusling, Cook, Stewart, Pears, Zaharakis, Stevens, Guthrie, Newman, Paparone.

The first is the best and Zaharakis, Lonergan and Guthrie are good gets and Paparone shows promise. But I'm just as happy to get a very good 50-60 games out of Vince, especially considering where we've been and that we MUST start winning games of footy and improving the whole club's morale.

EDIT: yes Sylvia cost nothing too. But from a pure in versus out give me Vince any day of the week.

I guess the reason is in many cases is that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and we have stuffed up that many recruitment decisions that it's not funny. If we do it again then Damo gets to beat his chest and say how right he was. He was right last time and I guess because humans are creatures of habit in so many ways, he reckons he will be right again.

[angrydee 842]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and while at Sydney Roos was often accused of picking uglies. Amazing how many blossomed into beauties.

[jnrmac 18,979]

People have rapidly forgotten what an inconsistent player Sylvia was and is. No-one has accused Vince of that. In fact he is widely seen as being "a big game player". Sylvia is far from that.

Further, our overwhelming need is gun mid- fielder. Vince fulfills that role far better than Sylvia, and so is a net gain for us.

We must all remember that Roos looks at our total requirements and recruits accordingly. On that basis, Vince is a huge plus for us. How it could be claimed otherwise is beyond me.

Not me

[Nasher 33,047]

I think we all have some biases in our opinions (it's hard not to be).

We are looking at it from a needs basis which we achieved. Others are looking at it from a critical basis, where we picked up:

• Vince who was worth pick 30-40 ish with pick 23.

1. Would Adelaide have accepted pick 41 in the end?
2. Would Adelaide have accepted Sylvia's compo pick if it was 3rd round? 39 ish? - i read a trade post that said they would no matter the compensation.

• Dom Tyson+pick9 who was worth pick 2-20 ish alone with pick 2 & 20.

1. Yes on his drafting years form compared to this years draft he is worth pick two easily.
2. But say he can't recapture that form (hasn't really dominated many games - look at his best 10 games stats - http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/D/Dom_Tyson.html) or he gets injured again for a third year with us.
3. His value would then be pick 10-30 ish by next years trade period.I think Richmond pick 15 ish would get the deal done alone.This is where D. Barrett is coming from. Whereas we think he alone is worth pick 2. upgrading from 20 to 9 is the win.

Hopefully by the end of next year the team is used to the game style Roosy has enforced and we are a competitive team

The concept of "worth" and "value" I'd have thought were relative to need. Vince was "worth" a pick in the 30/40s - according to whom? There is a need for us to have experienced, AFL capable midfielders now. I'm happy to sacrifice a long term B-grader (or worse, possible dud) taken in the 20s, who will require time to develop, for a player who will protect our already promising youth and help accelerate our return to competitiveness.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Every draft is a lottery and every draft contains a few Cales. This draft is a bit thin and pretty even. Not the draft an informed judge would be fighting for pick upgrades on.

saints will be judged harshly if they screw up their picks.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

As for Barrett and Denim I'll say this. Neither have broken a story recently. In barrett's case I cannot remember a story he has broken. So how do you get attention? Harshly judging someone. And who do you harshly judge? Easy targets - targets that won't cost you contacts.

Denim is also transparent. He has nothing but positive things to say about the Dees after Roos appointment, then reports our interest in two players but its reported no where else. I reckon he realized the rumour was bs so got annoyed and then started bagging us pitbagain - PJs never won a premiership, money all 2, paying overs for Roos.

they bag us because they think it won't harm them to do so. It just attention seeking for relevance when you can't break a story.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Sorry moneyball 2

[Dees2014 2,377]

Every draft is a lottery and every draft contains a few Cales. This draft is a bit thin and pretty even. Not the draft an informed judge would be fighting for pick upgrades on.

saints will be judged harshly if they screw up their picks.

This draft at least at the elite end is also almost entirely running mid-fielders which suits us down to the ground.

Next year's draft is almost universally judged (by the so-called experts) as much stronger than this year, because it is made up of a lot of big bodied key backs and forwards, as well as some first rate very large ruck types. This could also suit us as by then we may be looking for a ruck back up for Maxy and a possible replacement for Chip Frawley, although I suspect if we do well in 2014 he will stay.

This is the best year for three or four years to build our midfield because of its evenness and it's predominance of midfielders. In this, I think we have done very well, topped off by recruiting Lennon in the draft. If that happens, then I'd give our guys an A+.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Dees2014

[Dees2014 2,377]

As for Barrett and Denim I'll say this. Neither have broken a story recently. In barrett's case I cannot remember a story he has broken. So how do you get attention? Harshly judging someone. And who do you harshly judge? Easy targets - targets that won't cost you contacts.

Denim is also transparent. He has nothing but positive things to say about the Dees after Roos appointment, then reports our interest in two players but its reported no where else. I reckon he realized the rumour was bs so got annoyed and then started bagging us pitbagain - PJs never won a premiership, money all 2, paying overs for Roos.

they bag us because they think it won't harm them to do so. It just attention seeking for relevance when you can't break a story.

I think Barratt is starting to damage his reputation. His judgement is constantly being questioned by well credentialled commentators, as well as callers to talk back.

A couple of instances:

1. On trade radio he went on at some length about how unfair it was that North has to cough up pick 8 for MaDonald when the WCE indicated they would draft him with their first round pick. He said this was most unfair when the MFC got Viney at pick 26 the year before ( because of course GWS were the only ones in a position to trump us and they were not willing to draft him at pick 1 - it was also helped by the bargaining associated with the Hogan deal - many believed in fact this was part of the deal which makes it even better from our perspective.) Astute trading on our behalf. These Barratt complaints were not only canned by Wallace, but it caused a meltdown on talkback with caller after caller canning Barratt for being nong, and this was across the board not just Demon supporters.

2. Barrott kept on marking us down because he kept saying we traded pick 2 for Tyson, when in fact we traded pick two for Tyson and two pick upgrades one of which was 20 for 9. He was also canned for this by both Wallace and talk back callers.

There were two or three other instances where Barratt demonstrated a staggering ignorance of how the AFL works. It would not surprise me if the powers that be do not invite him back next year as his credibility with those that know is now very low. Even the AFL eventually get sick of such blatant ignorance and incompetence.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Dees2014

[The Third Eye 212]

There are many different types of journalist in the world. Some report the facts as they see them and leave it up to the reader to interpret what's going on. Others write opinion pieces and it's clear most of the time where they stand on various issues. Others still will mix opinion with their reporting (eg the Caro type) which is something I dislike because their agenda takes over their reporting and often leads to misrepresentation about what's happening. Worse still are the journos who do often produce agenda based articles either to push their own barrows or at the behest of their mates. That's slimy reporting IMO.

I think the Denham's and the Barrett's are in the last category. They're very good at it though because they've caused a lot of discussion around here about their style and their reporting.

[Pitchy 196]

I remember when Dean Bailey arrived for his first preseason he saw Daniel Bell standing 6ft4 and looking supremely athletic on the track and told the media; 'I'm expecting big things from him'. But we supporters already knew Daniel Bell's limitations (awareness and speed) and had to watch Bailey learn that for himself over his first season. By round 15 Bell was back in the twos with the same problems he had shown through his first 4 years at the club.

Similarly, I think we supporters know losing Sylvia is not that big a deal. He has limitations (speed and work ethic) which limit his impact on games on a regular basis. Maybe Freo will turn him into a Angus Monfries type at Port... but I doubt it.

Either way, we might be marked down by some for losing him and getting Vince in his place, but for mine it is a big win for us. Despite Sylvia's tantalising traits (booming kick and good mark) he isn't an impact midfielder or a damaging forward. Vince is the mature gut running player we need right now.