Freo Tanking

[jnrmac 20,089]

So yet again Freo rest a large number of players in the last round just like GWS last year and Freo did a few years back.

Why is this not tanking? Just because there might be a different reason or benefit for/from it it is still the same in principal.

No one is claiming the players on the field dont try.

This really annoys me.

[chookrat 4,250]

Because they are winning and gain nothing from a loss.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Surely we are all smart enough to know the difference

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Because they are not easy pray to Vlad and his goons.

[Guest]

It's time to stop getting into these arguments and accept the following...

We took a dive in 2009. We didn't just rest players for the last game. We didn't book players in for surgery when the season was shot. We set out in round one of the season to win no more than 4 games to get draft picks 1 and 2. We had the ability to maybe win 6-8 games. Yet we chose in certain games to put positional moves in place that would decrease the likelihood of us winning and dropped players from key games to do the same.

We can go into how Freo is doing it this weekend or how Carlton did it in 2007. I would say in those cases as well there wasn't as blatant and long term campaign of tanking going on but that isn't the point. This isn't the Nick Naylor school of public ethics: 'I'm wrong but you're wrong too so that makes me right.'

The club will only prosper if we accept the mistakes of the past and stop blaming everyone and anyone from the media who told us this was happening. Sure, Caro was a hag during the entire process. Sure, in a legal sense, we shouldn't have been charged with anything and I said as much during the whole saga. However, as far as our moral culpability goes, we are guilty as sin. The example I have used before is the one I use again; racial segregation was legal during the 50's and part of the 60's in the US South but did that make it moral?

Edited August 29, 2013 by Guest

[Little Richard 6,262]

So is the definition of tanking 'purposely not winning' or 'not doing everything in your power to win/not trying to win every game'? If its latter, Freo should definitely be looked at.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The AFL came out and said that "resting" players did not constitute tanking.

[beelzebub 23,377]

So is the definition of tanking 'purposely not winning' or 'not doing everything in your power to win/not trying to win every game'? If its latter, Freo should definitely be looked at.

this is it...if thats what we were called to task for, irrespective of carrots etc, it was the process involved.. Same process here.

Hypocrisy.

[old55 23,593]

Because tanking is trying to lose, it's not not trying to win.

[beelzebub 23,377]

Because tanking is trying to lose, it's not not trying to win.

Colour it how you wish.. Freo are pulling the carpet out from under themselves. We have the old chestnut about the players still playing to win and they will. So The "trying to lose" is a crock of shlt. its about empowering ( or not ) your team to have its best chances. Clearly Freo arent, they dont care. Its irrelevant to the season , but the fitness of players in finals is. Thats their carrot, a different one to us but they are playing to gain something.

Its exactly the bloody same in my books

[old55 23,593]

There's a massive difference but it won't surprise me if many here can't see it.

[beelzebub 23,377]

There's a massive difference but it won't surprise me if many here can't see it.

Im surprised 55 you think theres a difference. Bit like crimes at the top end of town and the bottom , apparently they are different . Theyre not. People just dress different.

Thats all the difference here, the dressing of it.

In both cases ( all cases of tanking ) teams present the worst line up capable of achieving a desired outcome. That normally being some form of advantage. Please describe the difference as you see it.

[Chook 15,013]

Because tanking is trying to lose, it's not not trying to win.

2 minus negative 2 is still 4

[old55 23,593]

I already have. There's a difference between trying to lose and not trying to win.

[beelzebub 23,377]

I already have. There's a difference between trying to lose and not trying to win.

You honestly think either of Freo or GWS are trying to WIN as hard as would be if they fronted their best teams ?

All youre doing is describing the two sides of the same coin. its still the same coin.

[Nasher 33,616]

You honestly think either of Freo or GWS are trying to WIN as hard as would be if they fronted their best teams ?

All youre doing is describing the two sides of the same coin. its still the same coin.

Freo don't care whether they win or lose. If we'd won, we'd have had to have a moment's silence and a week in mourning. It's not the same coin.

[sue 9,107]

While 55 has a point, albeit a bit weak, the real difference is timescale. His real tankers (MFC, Carlton etc style) are trying to win, but on a longer timescale than Freo-style non-tanking. Freo field a team which they know is likely to lose so their good players can be fit for the immediate finals and win. We and Carlton etc field/position a team badly knowlng it is likely to lose hoping to get high draft picks so as to win in the future.

(Note the italics around likely. I don't think anyone has tanked by asking a player to miss a goal.)

[biggestred 5,093]

the difference is freo are trying to win the flag THIS year.

we were trying to win a flag in a couple of years.

the goal is still the same

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Freo don't care whether they win or lose. If we'd won, we'd have had to have a moment's silence and a week in mourning. It's not the same coin.

I think you have it the wrong way around.

Freo does care if they win or loss that why they are winning and in the top 4.

The MFC does not care if it wins or losses and that why its second last on the ladder (How we won the two games defies logic).

I for one want my team to win and would never mourn a win.

The MFC has done so well with its Top picks that if any tanking did go on we lost twice.

I say put people in charge with ethics, knowledge, true ability and the single minded focus to always win. Then I would be enjoying my AFL footy.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Oh FFS. They are resting players in order to try and win finals and flag right here right now. They have every right to. You might find a few who agree with the tactic but you will struggle to find a Freo fan who doesn't understand it.

The fact we got penalised when we tanked has nothing to do with Freo.

[Nasher 33,616]

While 55 has a point, albeit a bit weak, the real difference is timescale. His real tankers (MFC, Carlton etc style) are trying to win, but on a longer timescale than Freo-style non-tanking. Freo field a team which they know is likely to lose so their good players can be fit for the immediate finals and win. We and Carlton etc field/position a team badly knowlng it is likely to lose hoping to get high draft picks so as to win in the future.

(Note the italics around likely. I don't think anyone has tanked by asking a player to miss a goal.)

Sue, I don't see why 55's point is so weak. It's all about intent. Freo may lose, but it's not their *intention* to lose, that is just a likely by-product of their strategy to rest players. Clearly our intention was to lose. Anyone who wants to argue the point about the MFC wanting to lose is either being disingenuous, or is just thick.

In the same manner that it's not the MFC's intention to make Casey bow out of the finals in straight sets, but it will probably happen for a third year straight as a consequence of MFC's injury management decisions. Are we going to say Melbourne/Casey are tanking now?

[beelzebub 23,377]

well glad we got that all sorted....lol

[jnrmac 20,089]

The fact there is even a debate about what constitutes tanking means it is a joke. Vlad certainly didn't think we 'tanked' and even congratulated Scwhab for 'staying the course' with our season.

Are posters here seriously saying we set out to win no more than four games from round 1? That's crap and there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

You are all pointing to the benefit gained - that is also a crap argument. Its like saying we robbed a bank with $10m and someone else robbed a convenience store for $30.

There is simply no difference if you don't field your best team for whatever reason it is arguably tanking.

What about GWS last season in round 23 resting I think 8 players against Gold Coast?? When the number 1 pick was on the line??

[rpfc 28,440]

It's funny, while I agree that one is not the same as the other - the NBA fined the Spurs $250k for resting their big three against Miami in a regular season game and really don't care about when teams tank every season. Which is really going to be quite something this year with a kid from Canada called Wiggins who is said to be the reincarnation of LeBron...

Riggin' for Wiggins they are calling it.

And yet the Freo equivalent gets fined...

[dee-luded 2,959]

So yet again Freo rest a large number of players in the last round just like GWS last year and Freo did a few years back.

Why is this not tanking? Just because there might be a different reason or benefit for/from it it is still the same in principal.

No one is claiming the players on the field dont try.

This really annoys me.

Casey Scorpions???