POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[Redleg 37,679]

Sylvia fumbles constantly under pressure. He's simply not a midfielder.

Watts won't use his body in a marking contest if he's half a chance of getting hurt.

Dunn piked it as usual.

Toumpas was OK, but is a mile off. Have a look at Crouch and the way he competes for the footy. Toumpas is a distributor, but he's not a ball winner - yet. Will be OK, and is feeling better about himself, but those getting a chubby would get a chubby over anything at the moment, such is our plight.

Grimes makes terrible decisions.

They were given 5 goals from undisciplined play or umpiring errors.

Not our worst performance. Get some more support in the middle and some more fire power up front and things can turn quicker than many think.

EDIT: Basil frigging Zempilas - if he said "Melbourne understands their role in this" one more time I'd hunt the ugly bast-ard down.

EDIT 2: For an ex-premiership captain Tom Harley is the most uninspiring commentator in the games. The annoying [censored] gives no insight whatsoever.

Agree except for the bit on Dunn, I thought he has been pretty good the last few weeks. He is not braveheart, but next to JW he is Superman.

Also, I don't watch a game of football to have commentators talk about a mexican wave, that they want to start, for 3/4 of the game. Basil, Hamish and Tom were hopeless. Maybe they could get a gig at a retirement home on bingo night.

[rjay 23,922]

Agree except for the bit on Dunn, I thought he has been pretty good the last few weeks. He is not braveheart, but next to JW he is Superman.

Also, I don't watch a game of football to have commentators talk about a mexican wave, that they want to start, for 3/4 of the game. Basil, Hamish and Tom were hopeless. Maybe they could get a gig at a retirement home on bingo night.

The standard of commentary across the board is pretty poor at the moment. Taylor last night was abysmal, he continues to call the wrong players and has no understanding of what is happening on the ground. The 7 team has become a joke and Fox is not a lot better.

[titan_uranus 22,444]

We're not all here to solve the entire problem for the club mate. Just want to raise the issues that concern us.

If you're not interested don't read them.

Unlike you I don't feel the need to belittle people. It reflects poorly on you, not me.

I was interested, that's why I raised the point in the first place. You seemed to be fixated upon the number of players who registered a goal, whereas I feel that's just a manifestation of the true problem, which is our poor midfield.

Then you told me to 'take a break'. So, to use a child's favourite, you started it.

Anyway, the point is there. You're concerned about goal-kickers, I'm concerned about creating opportunities, we're both concerned about lack of scores.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,217]

You need to watch the game again Big Red. Like many Demon supporters you're easily impressed.

When he worked hard and received the ball in the clear he looked good. When receiving the ball under any degree of pressure, but not in all cases, he panick handballed or quickly kicked to a player 20 to 30 meters behind selling our players (or the team with those kicks) into more trouble. His turnovers and selling players into trouble cost us a number of goals today. He also tends to hang onto the ball while making a decision far too long. Today's game is about super quick ball movement from one end to the other. The more time you give opponents to man up and set up the wall one kick behind play/forward press etc the harder it is for everyone.

He'll get there but some Demon supporters are easily swayed by a number of "in the clear" no pressure disposals a la "Watts". Yes he looks great here and i'm pleased but he won't have this sort of time and space against most of the better clubs on the occasions we witnessed today.

Having re-watched the first half Toumpas had 10 handballs, 8 which were clearly effective freeing a man into space. He handballed once under pressure to Trengove which resulted in no turnover and a 50/50 he pushed out to Garland which we took the ball away from the play. He had 3 kicks all were moving the ball forward. None were direct clangers as all went to 50/50's but one was taken away from the contest for a score for Adelaide (4 possessions in the chain later). Outside of his possessions he got caught taking the game on in the first half which cost us a goal. So he had 13 touches in the first half 8 that clearly put us in a more attacking position, 4 that had no direct negative impact and one which cost a goal 4 possessions later in a scoring chain. He was clearly our most effective player in the first half and these so called possessions selling others into trouble and his slow decision making seem to be figments of peoples imagination.

Will have a look at the second half when I get a chance.

[CHAMP 347]

Jack Trengove is averaging over 20 touches in the 10 games since Craig took over

He is definitely turning things around

He will dominate in 2014 with support around him and hopefully he gets a sprint coach for the pre-season

I don't think Trenners is ever going to be what you'd call 'quick'. Clearly it is slow twitch muscle fibre which runs in the family with his sister running at world class in long distance events. You can be coached to run better but not 'quicker' as such.

[Lordweaver 235]

Did anyone expect much different? We battled hard with the personnel we had at our disposal, we need an injection of more talent

[Bitter but optimistic 21,286]

Did anyone expect much different? We battled hard with the personnel we had at our disposal, we need an injection of more talent

I'd be careful with that word these days.

You better do some pennance Lord!

[Lordweaver 235]

I'd be careful with that word these days.

You better do some pennance Lord!

I stand corrected and am off to confession as we speak BBO

[Bitter but optimistic 21,286]

I stand corrected and am off to confession as we speak BBO

Be sure to give yourself a good flogging.

[Lordweaver 235]

Be sure to give yourself a good flogging.

I will use the cat o nine tails I borrowed but you can have the nipple clamps back...ouch

[Weedster 174]

Jack Trengove is averaging over 20 touches in the 10 games since Craig took over

He is definitely turning things around

He will dominate in 2014 with support around him and hopefully he gets a sprint coach for the pre-season

His improvement is heartening. Speaks volumes.

FWIW, I think Grimes is struggling because he's not a natural midfielder. Looked/looks far steadier in defence, where he's capable of linking up and thinking his way through traffic.

2 glaring issues - some inside midfield grunt (not sure why Magner is continually overlooked ) and the lack of a go-to man. We have no-one prepared to demand the ball, or work hard on the lead. Too many half hearted hands in the air, or worse, players hiding. Oh for someone like Nick Reiwoldt who makes it happen. Maybe Jesse is our man ? Live in hope ..

[Deespicable 2,548]

I finally got a chance to watch the replay and can now comment.

Big ticks

Jimmy T: Sure he made the biggest howler in the middle of the park but he showed he has slick hands and he possesses a Ron Harvey sideshuffle. I suspect he won't be the pacey outside mid that we needed but I'm growing more confident that he'll be a quality player.

Lynden Dunn - Yes I know everybody hates him, but he's one of the few players that projects the ball forward on most occasions and gives us a chance of launching a counterattack. Couple of stupid errors but probably our best on the day.

Jordie Mc - Had a really hard gig on Danger and whilst beaten, certainly wasn't smashed.

Chipper - Looked smooth as always and a class above the rest of our team.

David Rodan - Good early until injured and once he went off it became the Scotty Thompson/Brad Crouch show as Jacky Viney and Nathan Jones were down on the day and unable to win much clean possession.

Col Sylvia - Fumbled early but got better as game went on and nailed his two goalscoring chances.

Other notes:

Given that Adelaide has virtually no talls because of injuries, why was it that our bigger forwards (Watts/Howe/Pedersen) kept getting bumped under the ball. Only Dawes had a big body (in Rutten) to contend with.

Jack Grimes had a couple of shocking kicks and was unable to shrug off a tackler thus gifting a free kick in front away, but I thought he looked so much more assured down back than he's been in midfield. Please keep him in defence.

Trenners is using his smarts to get free well now that Craigy is using him as a wingman.

Spencil was beaten by Jacobs and needs a back-up ruckman - ie: Gawn.

Pedersen went back to the standard of his first few games this season as a forward/back up ruckman. Then when Col G went off injured in last term he went down back for a short bit and looked right at home. So why did Craigy decide to use him as a forward/ruck in the first place - didn't he watch his first five games at this club?

Matt Jones and Howey - sorry but both look tired from long year of losing and will need to have good pre-seasons to justify being played at start of next year.

Watts - Thank christ Craigy played him as a forward and he showed glimpses of brilliance which is good from an on-sale point of view. His second goal was all quality and came about because he initially chased hard. As I've said before, if he kept doing that, then everybody would be right off his back.

Tappy - sorry but he's not looking like Chappy. Is it time to send him to defence or into midfield because he doesn't have evasive skills to be a forward?

Davey and Kent - needed to do more, but when they got it, they looked dangerous because they take the game on.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Jordie Mc - Had a really hard gig on Danger and whilst beaten, certainly wasn't smashed.

come on he had 2 kicks for the day and the bloke he was blanketing received 7 frees, for me that is a failure of a tagging job

[titan_uranus 22,444]

come on he had 2 kicks for the day and the bloke he was blanketing received 7 frees, for me that is a failure of a tagging job

A tagging job isn't defined by the number of kicks, so I'm not sure how relevant that stat is.

How many of those seven frees were paid against McKenzie?

Those stats don't help your argument.

[old dee 22,925]

His improvement is heartening. Speaks volumes.

FWIW, I think Grimes is struggling because he's not a natural midfielder. Looked/looks far steadier in defence, where he's capable of linking up and thinking his way through traffic.

2 glaring issues - some inside midfield grunt (not sure why Magner is continually overlooked ) and the lack of a go-to man. We have no-one prepared to demand the ball, or work hard on the lead. Too many half hearted hands in the air, or worse, players hiding. Oh for someone like Nick Reiwoldt who makes it happen. Maybe Jesse is our man ? Live in hope ..

I agree I have been saying that for two years Weedster.

In a decent team he would not be a midfielder, we are trying to make him something that IMO he will never be.

[beelzebub 22,225]

I agree I have been saying that for two years Weedster.

In a decent team he would not be a midfielder, we are trying to make him something that IMO he will never be.

Yepp.. Im sure hes only in the midfield because were so short of them.

[Jaded No More 58,108]

come on he had 2 kicks for the day and the bloke he was blanketing received 7 frees, for me that is a failure of a tagging job

Patrick Dangerfield didn't tear us a new one.

I hereby declare a win.

[jumbo returns 6,493]

I will use the cat o nine tails I borrowed but you can have the nipple clamps back...ouch

Wow! It's all happening!

[jumbo returns 6,493]

I finally got a chance to watch the replay and can now comment.

Big ticks

Jimmy T: Sure he made the biggest howler in the middle of the park but he showed he has slick hands and he possesses a Ron Harvey sideshuffle. I suspect he won't be the pacey outside mid that we needed but I'm growing more confident that he'll be a quality player.

Lynden Dunn - Yes I know everybody hates him, but he's one of the few players that projects the ball forward on most occasions and gives us a chance of launching a counterattack. Couple of stupid errors but probably our best on the day.

Jordie Mc - Had a really hard gig on Danger and whilst beaten, certainly wasn't smashed.

Chipper - Looked smooth as always and a class above the rest of our team.

David Rodan - Good early until injured and once he went off it became the Scotty Thompson/Brad Crouch show as Jacky Viney and Nathan Jones were down on the day and unable to win much clean possession.

Col Sylvia - Fumbled early but got better as game went on and nailed his two goalscoring chances.

Other notes:

Given that Adelaide has virtually no talls because of injuries, why was it that our bigger forwards (Watts/Howe/Pedersen) kept getting bumped under the ball. Only Dawes had a big body (in Rutten) to contend with.

Jack Grimes had a couple of shocking kicks and was unable to shrug off a tackler thus gifting a free kick in front away, but I thought he looked so much more assured down back than he's been in midfield. Please keep him in defence.

Trenners is using his smarts to get free well now that Craigy is using him as a wingman.

Spencil was beaten by Jacobs and needs a back-up ruckman - ie: Gawn.

Pedersen went back to the standard of his first few games this season as a forward/back up ruckman. Then when Col G went off injured in last term he went down back for a short bit and looked right at home. So why did Craigy decide to use him as a forward/ruck in the first place - didn't he watch his first five games at this club?

Matt Jones and Howey - sorry but both look tired from long year of losing and will need to have good pre-seasons to justify being played at start of next year.

Watts - Thank christ Craigy played him as a forward and he showed glimpses of brilliance which is good from an on-sale point of view. His second goal was all quality and came about because he initially chased hard. As I've said before, if he kept doing that, then everybody would be right off his back.

Tappy - sorry but he's not looking like Chappy. Is it time to send him to defence or into midfield because he doesn't have evasive skills to be a forward?

Davey and Kent - needed to do more, but when they got it, they looked dangerous because they take the game on.

Do you think he'll survive the cull?

I have grave doubts....

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

A tagging job isn't defined by the number of kicks, so I'm not sure how relevant that stat is.

How many of those seven frees were paid against McKenzie?

Those stats don't help your argument.

you are straight out wrong, you have to have more than 2 kicks in a game of AFL football no matter what role you are in

Patrick Dangerfield didn't tear us a new one.

I hereby declare a win.

see above

[old dee 22,925]

Do you think he'll survive the cull?

I have grave doubts....

No chance if I was in charge of the cull.

He has in my view never played more than one good quarter per senior game.

No one can tell me what his main attribute as an AFL player is and I have no idea.

Good night nurse and lets use the spot for someone else.

[old dee 22,925]

you are straight out wrong, you have to have more than 2 kicks in a game of AFL football no matter what role you are in

see above

Yes and Yes

[Ted Lasso 16,819]

tapscott is gone imo

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Sylvia fumbles constantly under pressure. He's simply not a midfielder.

Watts won't use his body in a marking contest if he's half a chance of getting hurt.

Dunn piked it as usual.

Toumpas was OK, but is a mile off. Have a look at Crouch and the way he competes for the footy. Toumpas is a distributor, but he's not a ball winner - yet. Will be OK, and is feeling better about himself, but those getting a chubby would get a chubby over anything at the moment, such is our plight.

Grimes makes terrible decisions.

They were given 5 goals from undisciplined play or umpiring errors.

Not our worst performance. Get some more support in the middle and some more fire power up front and things can turn quicker than many think.

EDIT: Basil frigging Zempilas - if he said "Melbourne understands their role in this" one more time I'd hunt the ugly bast-ard down.

EDIT 2: For an ex-premiership captain Tom Harley is the most uninspiring commentator in the games. The annoying [censored] gives no insight whatsoever.

Thats a pretty damn good summary BH

Hopefully we can get some good experienced ones - we can't keep relying on kids like Toump and Viney

Whats your opinion on Boyd - do we pass for a mid or do we trade what we have for mids?

[rjay 23,922]

you are straight out wrong, you have to have more than 2 kicks in a game of AFL football no matter what role you are in

see above

Danger had little effect on the game, McKenzie did a pretty good job on him. Yeah, he doesn't get a lot of his own ball and will have to if he is to be of full value to the side, this is why Crowley is so good. He hurts going the other way...but McKenzie was one of our few players that did his job on Saturday.