Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[DemonFrog 1,347]

“ I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant”

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You're fooling yourself Rhino, even you understands English,

Yes but do you understands English bro........

You bring others up to order yet you DONT like being called to task : suck it up buddy. Oh sorry that wouldn't be up to your taste.

I am sorry Bub....brought to task..... on which issue have you done so... I asked some questions back which I know you avoided

All you have done is launched into some puerile insults and puffed your chest out.

Your sense of achievement Bub is your own.

But your the one on the wizz-fizz so it seems.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If they've been properly informed then it's likely they would be aware that they can be found to have breached the AFL drug code without having taken the supplements knowingly and deliberately.

We need to wait until the final ASADA report is issued or possibly the ACC investigation is concluded to find out how it all works and who gets served with infraction notices and who gets charged with what.

Well two points.......

1. Agree its an if... but we dont know that as we have all said it awaits the final ASADA and ACC outcome.

2. Is "properly informed" defined under the AFL drug code? I doubt some players would be able to distinguish between a tic tac and a life saver.

And if they were caught as you say then Hird and Co will certainly be up for natural justice.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Well two points.......

1. Agree its an if... but we dont know that as we have all said it awaits the final ASADA and ACC outcome.

2. Is "properly informed" defined under the AFL drug code? I doubt some players would be able to distinguish between a tic tac and a life saver.

And if they were caught as you say then Hird and Co will certainly be up for natural justice.

Mate give it up.

I think you made your point so why keep trying to insult others.

[Return to Glory 7,779]

If there is no punitive action other than Hird suspended I say bring back Neeld as our patsy and bring on the horse tranquilizers and peptides and tell the players it's a smoothly.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

If there is no punitive action other than Hird suspended I say bring back Neeld as our patsy and bring on the horse tranquilizers and peptides and tell the players it's a smoothly.

Now you are simply going too far LOL

Edited August 25, 2013 by TheBigFrog

[Return to Glory 7,779]

Your right. Players don't drink smoothies so much.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Your right. Players don't drink smoothies so much.

ROFL

I wanted to say far not fat.

[Whispering_Jack 28,021]

Well two points.......

1. Agree its an if... but we dont know that as we have all said it awaits the final ASADA and ACC outcome.

2. Is "properly informed" defined under the AFL drug code? I doubt some players would be able to distinguish between a tic tac and a life saver.

And if they were caught as you say then Hird and Co will certainly be up for natural justice.

The players in question have all been through interviews with ASADA and may yet have to go through further interviews including possibly with the ACC. After almost 7 months I suggest they are very much informed of the processes and what to expect.

I'm not sure what you mean about being "up for natural justice" but Hird and the other Aminos are entitled to natural justice from the AFL but I don't think those rules apply if the ACC or WADA get involved. They certainly deserve to be justly and fairly dealt with but that's always the case and I think our legal system is, on balance, fairly good.

Irrespective, as I've said earlier, tomorrow's announcement of a deal won't be the end of the matter.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The players in question have all been through interviews with ASADA and may yet have to go through further interviews including possibly with the ACC. After almost 7 months I suggest they are very much informed of the processes and what to expect.

I'm not sure what you mean about being "up for natural justice" but Hird and the other Aminos are entitled to natural justice from the AFL but I don't think those rules apply if the ACC or WADA get involved. They certainly deserve to be justly and fairly dealt with but that's always the case and I think our legal system is, on balance, fairly good.

Irrespective, as I've said earlier, tomorrow's announcement of a deal won't be the end of the matter.

Well, they will have no idea of timelines particularly in the advent of additional powers ASADA has. I don't think they or anybody know what to expect at this stage. I would suggest this has added to the angst of the players/ parents.

In regard to natural justice, Hird and co will have less wriggle if charged under the ASADA or other rules as opposed to AFL codes where they claim to be denied it.

I don't think anyone is arguing "it's the end of the matter". I think the consensus is that we are at early stages on a considerable journey that could have a number of turns depending on the ASADA/ACC outcomes.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

My view are very strong when it comes to anyone or any Club using drug etc. in sport to improve their performances.

Hang the cheating Bastards!

But at this point I agree further investigation are needs to pin point any drug cheats, but IMO there enought evidence to charges the Club and officials with bring the game in to disrepute.

I am for one am very interested to hear their defence.

[biggestred 4,356]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/play-it-straight-and-take-the-medicine/story-fni0fhh1-1226703731898

This is excellent.

[Slartibartfast 15,875]

I will say this, if us, Carlton and Adelaide lost draft picks for salary cap cheating, and Essendon don't lose at least 2-3 years of draft picks for DRUG cheating, the AFL should be ashamed of themselves.

It seems to me that Essendon and Adelaide will be spitting chips that we got off with no draft penalties.

Having made an almighty mess at least our Board did wonderfully well in our dealings with the AFL. Of course their main motivation might have been their own reputations rather than the MFC's but thankfully they were complimentary.

The reality is that the AFL knew that we were such a basket case the loss of draft penalties could have been fatal and why would they hinder a club they suspected they had to put under administration anyway.

[beelzebub 22,255]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/play-it-straight-and-take-the-medicine/story-fni0fhh1-1226703731898

This is excellent.

Gets it back on track.

[rjay 23,955]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/play-it-straight-and-take-the-medicine/story-fni0fhh1-1226703731898

This is excellent.

It's well written by Rita but nothing new, it's actually the facts of the situation. If only the so called footy journos just looked at what was instead of the smoke and mirrors.

Too many have been willing to cut the players slack on this and I still don't believe that the AFLPA or the player managers knew nothing about what was going on, surely one player out of 40+ said something. There are many hiding behind their own BS here.

[Pink Freud 325]

It seems to me that Essendon and Adelaide will be spitting chips that we got off with no draft penalties.

Having made an almighty mess at least our Board did wonderfully well in our dealings with the AFL. Of course their main motivation might have been their own reputations rather than the MFC's but thankfully they were complimentary.

The reality is that the AFL knew that we were such a basket case the loss of draft penalties could have been fatal and why would they hinder a club they suspected they had to put under administration anyway.

Surely, you can't lose draft picks for telling bad jokes?

[beelzebub 22,255]

Surely, you can't lose draft picks for telling bad jokes?

No, but we might gain one for being one !!

[sue 8,463]

There is a question which no one seems to have raised - though perhaps I have missed it. Players at Essendon must have friends in other AFL teams. Surely they would discuss things about their work. If you were being injected on a regular basis, would you not mention this to other players when you discuss life in the AFL? The response from the other player would either be "Me too" which implies other clubs are doing the same, or 'WTF' which would make the Essendon player sit up and wonder.

I'm not saying that the latter would necessarily make him take any action. Though the players from other clubs would presumably be asking about doing similarly within their own club. I'd expect it to leak out. Maybe it did and was the source of some of the pre-preempt ASADA rumours.

Of course maybe they wouldn't discuss it with friends having been told 'this is our secret weapon'.

[Redleg 37,891]

It seems to me that Essendon and Adelaide will be spitting chips that we got off with no draft penalties.

Bob I am surprised that you would think that.

Essendon are involved in the biggest scandal ever in the history of the AFL/VFL. They have compounded it with their attacks on the AFL. They have taken the AFL to Court.

Adelaide were involved in salary cap cheating.

We conducted an activity that several other clubs also were involved in and both the AFL and our lawyers, agreed there was no evidence to find charges proved. We saved the AFL face and agreed to plead to a nothing charge. We also saved further investigations into all those other clubs by not going to Court and having them brought up.

I don't think the Crows or Bombers in any way would be concerned with our penalty, as it was irrelevant to their crimes.

Spitting chips, I hardly think so.

PS. Hird is railing against being suspended for 12 months and says he would cop no more than 6 months for his failures and his actions since, against the AFL including personal attacks. Wonder how CC feels about his 12 months suspension.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Redleg

[Nasher 33,133]

There is a question which no one seems to have raised - though perhaps I have missed it. Players at Essendon must have friends in other AFL teams. Surely they would discuss things about their work. If you were being injected on a regular basis, would you not mention this to other players when you discuss life in the AFL? The response from the other player would either be "Me too" which implies other clubs are doing the same, or 'WTF' which would make the Essendon player sit up and wonder.

From the document http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

If the supplement is recommended then a letter of informed consent will be produced and given to the player to sign prior to the first administration of the supplement, the player will have a right of refusal and also be able to refuse the supplement at any point in the future. As part of this informed consent the player will also be made aware that it is our competitive advantage and in being so that they are not permitted to speak about our supplement program outside of [Reid], [Hird], [Robinson] and … Dank.

It sounds to me as if they weren't even permitted to speak about it with each other, let alone players from other clubs.

[Jaded No More 58,584]

It seems to me that Essendon and Adelaide will be spitting chips that we got off with no draft penalties.

Having made an almighty mess at least our Board did wonderfully well in our dealings with the AFL. Of course their main motivation might have been their own reputations rather than the MFC's but thankfully they were complimentary.

The reality is that the AFL knew that we were such a basket case the loss of draft penalties could have been fatal and why would they hinder a club they suspected they had to put under administration anyway.

I also don't think the AFL could take draft picks off us given how many other clubs could/should be done for "tanking".

The Essendon drug cheating is cut and dry, if they injected players with drugs not fit for human consumption, they should pay up big.

[titan_uranus 22,618]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/play-it-straight-and-take-the-medicine/story-fni0fhh1-1226703731898

This is excellent.

The problem appears to be that there is too much doubt over who took what, and what was taken, to charge anyone.

Whilst there is an increasingly widely held view of innocence, the true issue is not innocence/guilt, but the fact that ASADA hasn't got the evidence to charge anyone.

[sue 8,463]

From the document http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

If the supplement is recommended then a letter of informed consent will be produced and given to the player to sign prior to the first administration of the supplement, the player will have a right of refusal and also be able to refuse the supplement at any point in the future. As part of this informed consent the player will also be made aware that it is our competitive advantage and in being so that they are not permitted to speak about our supplement program outside of [Reid], [Hird], [Robinson] and … Dank.

It sounds to me as if they weren't even permitted to speak about it with each other, let alone players from other clubs.

Thanks Nasher- that answers it. Pretty amazing they weren't allowed to discuss it with other Essendon players. I wonder if they are still abiding by this.

Edit: And amazing that they wouldn't be able to discuss it with their own GP. Especially since GP's often have to ask what else you are taking to ensure there is no conflict with what they are prescribing.

Edited August 26, 2013 by sue

[whelan45 202]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/play-it-straight-and-take-the-medicine/story-fni0fhh1-1226703731898

This is excellent.

I was under the impression that the reason the players haven't been charged is that there is conjecture on whether the substances they took were banned or not. There is the whole confusion between what advice ASADA has given regarding AOD. At this interim stage, ASADA haven't been able to gather enough evidence to appropriately ban any players.

They may still yet, but it seems unlikely given that they haven't been able to 6 in months.

I don't think the players haven't been banned due to any sympathy directed towards them. They simply just don't have the appropriate evidence at this stage to make any bans hold up in a court of law

[titan_uranus 22,618]

I was under the impression that the reason the players haven't been charged is that there is conjecture on whether the substances they took were banned or not. There is the whole confusion between what advice ASADA has given regarding AOD. At this interim stage, ASADA haven't been able to gather enough evidence to appropriately ban any players.

They may still yet, but it seems unlikely given that they haven't been able to 6 in months.

I don't think the players haven't been banned due to any sympathy directed towards them. They simply just don't have the appropriate evidence at this stage to make any bans hold up in a court of law

Agreed - I think it's three-pronged. First, they don't know what was administered. Second, they don't know who was administered which substance. Finally, there is some doubt over the status of the potential options for what the substances were.