Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[DemonFrog 1,359]

Apparently so.

The Doc is back, which I think is just another disgrace, in this whole disgraceful episode.

I am not sure about the Doc WJ.

From what I read he appeared to have warned his bosses and was not really involved in the EFC supplement program.

I appreciate the argument that he should have done more to stop the injections at the EFC but he was not a high ranking official at the Club, I think he reported to The Weapon. So he really did not have that much authority at the EFC to stop anything, he could just advise those that could.

It appeared to me that the Doc was being unfairly criticized and IMO the AFL dropping all charges against him was a fair decision.

However there may be something I not aware of which would change my opinion on him, but for now based on what I read it seems fair that he back at work for the EFC.

[DemonFrog 1,359]

This Hardie character purports to be a champion of sportspeople oppressed by tough anti-doping policies and, while he might have a point about the frustrations suffered by some at their treatment, he overlooks the fact that it's a necessary evil in seeking to ensure that clean athletes who want to get to the top of their sports through talent and hard work aren't trumped by the chemists.

I regard it in a similar light to the inconvenience caused by x rays and having to go through metal detectors at airports. I don't like some of the unfriendly, gruff security people but, in the end, I'm happy to put up with it if it makes my flight safer.

The statement attributed to Hardie about Essendon's "well documented and controlled" programme is risible. If the author of this article wasn't engaging in a tasteless student prank, then it doesn't speak kindly about the academic standards of this institution.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the chasm between Fairfax and the Murdoch press is demonstrated by how their journalists are interpreting the appointment of Judge Downes - ASADA investigation: Former Federal judge Garry Downes steps in to help speed things up

The Minister says the Judge has been appointed to "assist ASADA" but the Murdoch press suggests that he's somehow investigating it.

You be the judge.

I knew you could do it WJ.

Never let them grind you down because of their stupidity.

There was one AFL Player where he had a positive drug test a day after he underwent an operation. The substance was not performance enhancing but a possible masking agent. He was let off, which was a fair and reasonable thing to do. So there is times when common sense is needed and no just blindly follow the rules.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

I knew you could do it WJ.

Never let them grind you down because of their stupidity.

There was one AFL Player where he had a positive drug test a day after he underwent an operation. The substance was not performance enhancing but a possible masking agent. He was let off, which was a fair and reasonable thing to do. So there is times when common sense is needed and no just blindly follow the rules.

I do not know of the case you refer to, but how is it fair and reasonable to let a player off on a positive test for a making agent? Who is this player? AFL or state league?

[DemonFrog 1,359]

I do not know of the case you refer to, but how is it fair and reasonable to let a player off on a positive test for a making agent? Who is this player? AFL or state league?

Steven Koops (AFL Player)

In 1999 he suffered a knee injury and was drug tested the day after surgery, returning a positive test for pethidine, a banned substance. Upon advice from the club, he pled guilty to the charge, but no penalty was imposed. However, due to the guilty finding, his name was entered onto the Australian Sports Drug Agency register, even after the AFL overturned the guilty finding and cleared Koops' name. Fremantle Football Club was fined $5000 for not notifying the AFL of the operation.[

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I am not sure about the Doc WJ.

From what I read he appeared to have warned his bosses and was not really involved in the EFC supplement program.

I appreciate the argument that he should have done more to stop the injections at the EFC but he was not a high ranking official at the Club, I think he reported to The Weapon. So he really did not have that much authority at the EFC to stop anything, he could just advise those that could.

It appeared to me that the Doc was being unfairly criticized and IMO the AFL dropping all charges against him was a fair decision.

However there may be something I not aware of which would change my opinion on him, but for now based on what I read it seems fair that he back at work for the EFC.

I think the only reason why the AFL dropped their case was if it went to court the AFL wouldnt have had enough at that stage to win (didnt know who took what and he can aviod that with patient privs.) and also some clever PR dropping those 'leaked' emails which made him look very good.

His big test will be worksafe - he was the club doctor which presided over 4,000 injections, where no one knows who had what given, including banned substances (assuming) and substances not yet fit for human consumption (known). Not looking good!

Does anyone knlw that, hypothetically, plagers were issued infractions for taking bammed substances they could sue Reid?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think the only reason why the AFL dropped their case was if it went to court the AFL wouldnt have had enough at that stage to win (didnt know who took what and he can aviod that with patient privs.) and also some clever PR dropping those 'leaked' emails which made him look very good.

His big test will be worksafe - he was the club doctor which presided over 4,000 injections, where no one knows who had what given, including banned substances (assuming) and substances not yet fit for human consumption (known). Not looking good!

Does anyone knlw that, hypothetically, plagers were issued infractions for taking bammed substances they could sue Reid?

I don't think the case was ever going to be a win for the AFL regardless. However I think there was more at stake with Hird and Vlad/Evans in conflict over what was said on the Vlad call made on the evening prior to the ACC announcement.

I think it was that Vlad and Evans would be under oath in the Reid case to state what was spoken about on the call made by Vlad to the EFC prior to the ACC announcement. There was risk of either perjury for either Vlad/Evans or Vlad possibly breach ACC confidentiality rules which would have looked bad for the AFL and Vlad. At the very least integrity was a stake and a disaster loomed for the AFL

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I don't think the case was ever going to be a win for the AFL regardless. However I think there was more at stake with Hird and Vlad/Evans in conflict over what was said on the Vlad call made on the evening prior to the ACC announcement.

I think it was that Vlad and Evans would be under oath in the Reid case to state what was spoken about on the call made by Vlad to the EFC prior to the ACC announcement. There was risk of either perjury for either Vlad/Evans or Vlad possibly breach ACC confidentiality rules which would have looked bad for the AFL and Vlad. At the very least integrity was a stake and a disaster loomed for the AFL

Glad you raised that up RR.

Interestingly it wasnt long after that wass made public that Evans resigned.

[monoccular 17,697]

I don't think the case was ever going to be a win for the AFL regardless. However I think there was more at stake with Hird and Vlad/Evans in conflict over what was said on the Vlad call made on the evening prior to the ACC announcement.

I think it was that Vlad and Evans would be under oath in the Reid case to state what was spoken about on the call made by Vlad to the EFC prior to the ACC announcement. There was risk of either perjury for either Vlad/Evans or Vlad possibly breach ACC confidentiality rules which would have looked bad for the AFL and Vlad. At the very least integrity was a stake and a disaster loomed for the AFL

Yes - integrity was at stake, and a disaster loomed for the AFL - and nothing has changed. What integrity there ever was has disappeared and Vlad / AFL look bloody stupid.

[beelzebub 23,390]

I don't think the case was ever going to be a win for the AFL regardless. However I think there was more at stake with Hird and Vlad/Evans in conflict over what was said on the Vlad call made on the evening prior to the ACC announcement.

I think it was that Vlad and Evans would be under oath in the Reid case to state what was spoken about on the call made by Vlad to the EFC prior to the ACC announcement. There was risk of either perjury for either Vlad/Evans or Vlad possibly breach ACC confidentiality rules which would have looked bad for the AFL and Vlad. At the very least integrity was a stake and a disaster loomed for the AFL

Theres a lot to this actually and its pivotal for many a participant in these sordid deeds.

[Redleg 42,039]

There was risk of either perjury for either Vlad/Evans or Vlad possibly breach ACC confidentiality rules which would have looked bad for the AFL and Vlad. At the very least integrity was a stake and a disaster loomed for the AFL

And Hird, Reid and the Essendon Football Club played that card for all it was worth.

IMO another disgusting action by the abovenamed. There actually is a law against blackmail.

[biggestred 5,266]

Essendon are fools. Andy d tips them off because he knows if they have done all this stuff they will be in less trouble in the long run, so they self report and then use the fact he has tried to help them out against him. #flogs

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And Hird, Reid and the Essendon Football Club played that card for all it was worth.

IMO another disgusting action by the abovenamed. There actually is a law against blackmail.

Agree. It's incredible how Hird has been prepared to sacrifice people who either looked up to him (players) or indeed trusted him ( Evans, Robson and others).

However doesn't blackmail require a specific action of actually or at least attempt on to blackmail. I am not sure that specifically happened in this case.

But there is no doubt that the AFL were smart enough to realise what Reid going to Court would mean.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Essendon are fools. Andy d tips them off because he knows if they have done all this stuff they will be in less trouble in the long run, so they self report and then use the fact he has tried to help them out against him. #flogs

I not sure Vlad would have any idea of the extent and the mitigation possibilities in front of Essendon.

The ACC announcement is unprecedented in Australian sport.

I suspect when Vlad found out earlier that day about the news his gut reaction was to get EFC to go mea culpa on the issue ASAP.

Not necessarily the wrong strategy but in trying to protect the profile of the game he may have left himself unwittingly open to be exploited by EFC lowlights.

[jazza 1,323]

When I read that he lectures in law it piqued my interest so I checked his bio:-

I'm speechless.

you would be surprised to learn the "{timor gap" case may have been one of the biggest cases of its type,in the world

anybody working on it must have had a deep knowledge of corporate law and be fair minded and astute

[Whispering_Jack 31,267]

I think it was that Vlad and Evans would be under oath in the Reid case to state what was spoken about on the call made by Vlad to the EFC prior to the ACC announcement. There was risk of either perjury for either Vlad/Evans or Vlad possibly breach ACC confidentiality rules which would have looked bad for the AFL and Vlad. At the very least integrity was a stake and a disaster loomed for the AFL

Since breach of the confidentiality would have laid him open to potential criminal charges, either alternative would have been disastrous, let alone looked bad.

[jayceebee31 768]

The odds. For them making the 8 seems great value ..feel they will definitely make the 8,if,indeed no payer suspension, any comment/s.

[jazza 1,323]

The odds. For them making the 8 seems great value ..feel they will definitely make the 8,if,indeed no payer suspension, any comment/s.

its either 6th

or bottom

[beelzebub 23,390]

Since breach of the confidentiality would have laid him open to potential criminal charges, either alternative would have been disastrous, let alone looked bad.

and that tells you what...about what lays beneath

love to see this get to open court

[Whispering_Jack 31,267]

you would be surprised to learn the "{timor gap" case may have been one of the biggest cases of its type,in the world

anybody working on it must have had a deep knowledge of corporate law and be fair minded and astute

I have no idea about the quality of the work he contributed towards that case. I'm referring to his extraordinary comments about Essendon's programme.

[bing181 9,436]

Steven Koops (AFL Player)

In 1999 ...

A lot has changed since then. WADA only came into existence at the end of 1999, and ASADA was established in 2006. In 1999 the AFL was only beholden unto itself.

[Cards13 9,117]

A lot has changed since then. WADA only came into existence at the end of 1999, and ASADA was established in 2006. In 1999 the AFL was only beholden unto itself.

Justin Charles got in just in time then.

[bing181 9,436]

Justin Charles got in just in time then.

Back in the day, a lot of people got in "just in time".

[Satan 2,915]

essendons 2014 football launch a year after they went public and james was surprised to be sitting there, Not a coincidence

[DemonFrog 1,359]

A lot has changed since then. WADA only came into existence at the end of 1999, and ASADA was established in 2006. In 1999 the AFL was only beholden unto itself.

True but we want to stop drug cheats and if someone was given a substance while they were having an operation and it was not performance enhance and was given for their well being, its a no brain to me they should be forgiven. Unless they played for MessyDrug and then they should be given a life ban and banishment from Australian to New Zealand.

[Cards13 9,117]

Back in the day, a lot of people got in "just in time".

Ha. Wce?