Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[McQueen 17,867]

Ha ha that's brilliant McQueen!!

Did you do that?

No mate. But whoever did has plenty of time on their hands.

[Redleg 41,427]

Brilliant and funny.

[Whispering_Jack 30,640]

The Essendon PR machine is working overtime and is even painting the extension of time given by the AFL to enable them and the Four Aminos to present their defence as a major victory. The truth is that the AFL are bound to give a fair opportunity for the parties to defend themselves. It also gives the parties time and opportunity to negotiate themselves an outcome which could avoid bloodletting in the courts. I suspect that not many are going to come out of this well once Dank tells his story.

[Redleg 41,427]

Hacks like Robbo should be ashamed of themselves as they care more about mates and clubs they support, than the players and some of their families whose health is now at risk.

Even Matthew Lloyd finally said on FC last night that he was horrified at the Mexican drug of another patient being given to players. The rest of the panel were disgusted also at what happened under Essendon's watch.

Forget about the face saving exercises of famous people and think about how the players and their families are now feeling. No wonder the team is in free fall.

This is the worst scandal in the history of the game.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

Hacks like Robbo should be ashamed of themselves as they care more about mates and clubs they support, than the players and some of their families whose health is now at risk.

Even Matthew Lloyd finally said on FC last night that he was horrified at the Mexican drug of another patient being given to players. The rest of the panel were disgusted also at what happened under Essendon's watch.

Forget about the face saving exercises of famous people and think about how the players and their families are now feeling. No wonder the team is in free fall.

This is the worst scandal in the history of the game.

I just cant believe a Club was involved to this level. Sure players will always try their luck to a Club back program is simple too shocking.

Personal life bans would be too good for any Club offical involved in such a program.

[rjay 25,086]

Hacks like Robbo should be ashamed of themselves as they care more about mates and clubs they support, than the players and some of their families whose health is now at risk.

Even Matthew Lloyd finally said on FC last night that he was horrified at the Mexican drug of another patient being given to players. The rest of the panel were disgusted also at what happened under Essendon's watch.

Forget about the face saving exercises of famous people and think about how the players and their families are now feeling. No wonder the team is in free fall.

This is the worst scandal in the history of the game.

Some of the supporters are starting to doubt now, the first time I've really heard that. The players, well I think they are starting to doubt the clubs line that the players and their welfare are the most important thing to the club when they continue to screw them. Having Watson sign a false statement and thinking the players a dumb enough to believe they are clear of any charges will have the smarter ones thinking. It seems reputations of those that have done the wrong thing is more important than the current playing group, again they come way down the pecking order as was seen before when they were used for dubious experiments.

[beelzebub 23,383]

The Essendon PR machine is working overtime and is even painting the extension of time given by the AFL to enable them and the Four Aminos to present their defence as a major victory. The truth is that the AFL are bound to give a fair opportunity for the parties to defend themselves. It also gives the parties time and opportunity to negotiate themselves an outcome which could avoid bloodletting in the courts. I suspect that not many are going to come out of this well once Dank tells his story.

And a bit of icing is that all penalties ought to be affected after this seasons end. Enjoy the pain Messendon

[DemonFrog 1,356]

OMG I just figured out what went wrong at Messendon.

They did not have whiteboard Wednesday so they misunderstood the term "high performance with integrity" with "What ever it takes" and "high performance drugs".

The solution to this misunderstand is so simple. Messendon should be required by the AFL to appoint Cameron Schwab as their CEO for the next 10 years. This will enable them to learn the meaning of the word "integrity" or screw them over for the next 20 years not sure which one. But who cares its only Messendon.

[sue 9,142]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-20/asada-told-afl-in-february-aod-9604-not-banned/4900852

[rjay 25,086]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-20/asada-told-afl-in-february-aod-9604-not-banned/4900852

This is an amazing story, you really don't know who to believe now. I think ASADA need to come clean on this and make a definitive statement.

[Whispering_Jack 30,640]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-20/asada-told-afl-in-february-aod-9604-not-banned/4900852

However a section from WADA's own instructions, relating to the 2012 prohibited list, said:

"As a reminder it is stressed that if a designer drug or any other non-prohibited substance falls into any of the S1-S9 categories then it will be deemed to be included in that section.

"Inclusion in S0 applies only after all the other categories have been considered inadequate."

There seems to be some ambiguity here that needs to be cleared up - urgently.

I was somewhat more than bemused by Whateley's presentation of this Dr. Garnham on AFL360. Firstly, Garnham was introduced as having been on an AFL panel on drugs but we learned later on that he's now a consultant to Essendon.

Anyway, apparently he asked ASADA to clear up some confusion over the status of AOD-9604 under the WADA code.

He claimed his advice was that it had been considered as not prohibited under S2 and therefore effectively S0 did not come into play.

This simply does not make any sense to me at all. The S0 category comes into play when it is not yet determined by testing that a substance is fit for human consumption. If Garnham and Whateley's interptetation is correct then why have S0 in the first place?

Whateley has asked the questions knowing the answer he was about to get from a consultant for the Essendon Football Club. It was a set up in the same way that the Brock McLean interview on OTC was a set up.

The questions that should have followed never came and you have to ask yourself "why"?

The answer is that the questioner already had his story and you don't spoil it by an investigation into the veracity of what was claimed.

AFL360 viewers were cheated last night.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Couple of comments.

Neither ASADA nor WADA need to prove that individuals have taken drugs. Circumstantial evidence is enough. How many times have we heard athletes who have been subsequently proven to be guilty say initially "I have been tested plenty of times and never been found to be positive" they don't need to be. All they need is strong circumstantial evidence. They have that in spades with Essendon.

ASADA does the heavy legwork with this, and still may charge Essendon and the players with infraction notices, but at the end of the day, even if ASADA don't act, WADA can and have acted in such circumstances. WADA has ultimate power here, so even if Essendon, ASADA and the AFL do a deal to keep it all out of the courts, WADA can still act. In my view, they have more than enough circumstantial evidence to do so, and I believe they will - eventually!

[Dees2014 2,377]

Rhino, as you should well know by now, never let facts get in the road of a good conspiracy theory.

Besides i did say it "depends" on who's instructing who. Regardless, no doubt everything is being conducted "above board" and in fair and just manner for all concerned! I'm sure the outcome for Essendrug will be befitting of whatever misdeanours may have taken place, both within the hallowed halls of the Windy Pill offices and those of the anti-ageing clinic (or wherever else the alleged 1,500 injections of various unknown/unidentifiable substances may have been administered).

At the moment, I think ASADA are continuing to carry out their investigation very thoroughly. I think there are dangers on the horizon though, and they are:

1) when the infamous press conference was held in Canberra about drugs in sport, Tony Abbott and his sports spokesperson sought to make political capital out of it by trying to somehow apportion blame to the Federal Government ("how could they make it happen on their watch??? Typical government incompetence" etc etc). There are some in the Liberal Party (I know, I'm a member) who have sought to see this as a political matter, and something that can be turned against the government. When they get into power, I'm not sure if they won't try to bury it by nobbling ASADA as a means of demonstrating they are dealing with it effectively. There are some pretty strange behaviors going on politically at the moment, and in this climate nothing would surprise me, and

2) there are extensive negotiations going on behind closed doors between Essendon's lawyers, Hird's lawyers, and the AFL's lawyers. In such circumstances deals tend to get done. Neither party wants to end up in court, but I think Hird's hubris may lead in that direction, and in order to do avoid that it would not surprise me if the AFL came out with a very much watered down penalty eg fines only.

The hope in both those instances though, is that an international body, WADA, has ultimate say, even if a newly elected Abbott Government nobbles ASADA, or the AFL goes weak at the knees to avoid court.

Ride on John Fahey.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

Libral v Labor

Dumb v Dumber

I can't tell the difference.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This is an amazing story, you really don't know who to believe now. I think ASADA need to come clean on this and make a definitive statement.

All there is to go is a he said/they said. There is no evidence of what level of person at ASADA was speaking, in what context and what the actual questions and answers were?

And the drug isn't formally banned.......yet It's in clinical testing.

The crucial and important issue is that AOD-9604 is not an approved drug and never been so under WADA rules. Fahey, Inge and Bruckner have stated that the WADA approval list is the critical standard. It's a low grade unacceptable benchmark to claim its not banned.

Both Danks and Essendon have claimed some form of ASADA clearance on the basis that it was not banned. Firstly, there is no evidence of a formal ASADA confirmation of this and secondly whether a drug is banned is an unacceptably low criteria for acceptance within a sports supplements regime.

On both fronts Essendon only look proven reckless cowboys. And it does nothing to exonerate Hird and co. and if there is actually evidence that ASADA has confirmed that AOD-9604 is not banned, it should more than a flimsy one pager which has proper authority with a clear assessment of the status of the drug. Anything less will be too cute by half.

And if there is actual conflicting confirmation from ASADA, it's going to be interesting if the final report brings down infraction notices. In addition given the absolutist stance of WADA in this respect, they will probably take the stick to ASADA behind closed doors.

[Redleg 41,427]

I was told yesterday that there is a lot to come on this from the ACC angle. They deal with crime.

I was also told that players from other clubs were discussing the changing bodies of Essendon players over a pre season. They were stunned at the change in players in such a short time.

[Redleg 41,427]

AFL 360 seems determined to clear the Bombers.

[rjay 25,086]

AFL 360 seems determined to clear the Bombers.

Why does this Garnham put his head up now?

All there is to go is a he said/they said. There is no evidence of what level of person at ASADA was speaking, in what context and what the actual questions and answers were?

True 'Rhino', surely this could be cleared up easily.

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

The doc on AFL360 said it was on the S2 list prior to April which goes against everything WADA have said.

This whole saga is steaming pile of shite.

Vlad needs to be removed from office.

[felixdacat 459]

The doc on AFL360 said it was on the S2 list prior to April which goes against everything WADA have said.

This whole saga is steaming pile of shite.

Vlad needs to be removed from office.

That's interesting point. Would it matter if it was not a prohibited substance in April this year? When the substance was injected in 2012. The WADA banned substance list is released at the beginning of the year whether this has significance in relation to the issue is an interesting point (for me)

Love how Tim Watson come out this morning and said that they had independent advice I.e a person employed by the Essendon FC is hardly independent.

Watching 360 last night I was shocked but I do not agree that the AFL or ASADA should have come out and cleared anything up. The investigation is not completed and just releasing part of investigation before its finished is not the way things are done. I am shocked that Gerard W would even think that let alone say it.

Edited August 21, 2013 by FerdDaDee

[beelzebub 23,383]

Messendon are desperate to cloud the issue and deflect away from the actual transgressions and point to the notion of misinformations and such.

We're not buying it Bummers !!

[Cards13 9,117]

That's interesting point. Would it matter if it was not a prohibited substance in April this year? When the substance was injected in 2012. The WADA banned substance list is released at the beginning of the year whether this has significance in relation to the issue is an interesting point (for me)

Love how Tim Watson come out this morning and said that they had independent advice I.e a person employed by the Essendon FC is hardly independent.

Watching 360 last night I was shocked but I do not agree that the AFL or ASADA should have come out and cleared anything up. The investigation is not completed and just releasing part of investigation before its finished is not the way things are done. I am shocked that Gerard W would even think that let alone say it.

Didn't his line also say something like "of the drugs they are aware were injected... the parents were given assurances that the players were in nor danger."

Like wtf? the drugs the club is aware of...

[rjay 25,086]

Didn't his line also say something like "of the drugs they are aware were injected... the parents were given assurances that the players were in nor danger."

Like wtf? the drugs the club is aware of...

Yep...

[beelzebub 23,383]

Essendon seeks to allay concerns about health problems related to the drugs/supplements scandal

I find this curious for a number of reasons the least of which is the almost contemptuous manner in which they abuse and use the poistion of a media 'performer' who also was a club great and is father to a Messendon star.

The truly interesting aspect though , for mine, is how can anyone seek to allay fears about any immediate or ongoing health issues without addressing what and how anything was taken. How do you do this without knowing all of what was taken , when , how often and by whom.

Are messndon saying one thing to the parents and another to ASADA etc ? Are the parents etc that gullible to believe anything of this club now at this juncture ? Would you ?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I was told yesterday that there is a lot to come on this from the ACC angle. They deal with crime.

I was also told that players from other clubs were discussing the changing bodies of Essendon players over a pre season. They were stunned at the change in players in such a short time.

Roy Masters on ABC Outsiders said that the evidence provided by relevant parties to the ACC would be relevant for a cross check with the ASADA findings. A person would not be wanting to make differing statements to either ACC or ASADA. Masters seemed to be indicating the ACC had accumulated significant evidence in respects of its findings aired in February.

Do you know if ACC is releasable or admissible if accused parties went to Court?