Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[wattsup 470]

I can't believe how hird is still senior coach, mind boggling

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I can't believe how hird is still senior coach, mind boggling

Someone suggested earlier that he knows where Essendon's bodies are buried.

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

Hi G just back from USA and it appears the Rams are going back to LA.

Back to the Bombers

Thank God something is moving forward.

I hope we stay in St Louis.

[Dees2014 2,377]

You saying EMC were so good that had they been retained that the players would have avoided sanction?

Wow that's a good PR team.

No, I am saying ESSENDON under Evans would have sought to negotiate a settlement, kept everything out of the courts, probably admitted guilt, and be given a 6 month sentence in the off season, instead of fighting every inch of the way. I know Cronhulla are not directly analogous, but that is effectively what they did. It is also what the AFL originally sought to do. Once Evans left and Little and Hird came to power with THEIR litigious hangers-on, it has all been downhill for the EFC and many of their players. Once they started fighting WADA/ASADA they were doomed, and Hird and his sociopathic wife have only made it 10 times worse than it need have been.

However, I still think there are other issues yet to come out, and an early settlement for the players would have not saved the coaches, doctors and board members from justice when it eventually arrives.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

No, I am saying ESSENDON under Evans would have sought to negotiate a settlement, keep everything out of the courts, probably admit guilt, and be given a 6 month sentence in the off season, instead of fighting every inch of the way. I know Cronhulla are not directly analogous, but that is effectively what they did. It is also what the AFL originally sought to do. Once Evans left and Little and Hird came to power with THEIR litigious hangers-on, it has all been downhill for the EFC and many of their players. Once they started fighting WADA/ASADA they were doomed, and Hird and his sociopathic wife have only made it 10 times worse than it need have been.

Ah, this does make more sense.

Thanks.

[Its Time for Another 4,225]

So now the players have been placed on the register of findings, I understand Andrew Dillon at the AFL will decide if infraction notices should be issued which I assume is a formality and then it's off to the AFL Tribunal.

I gather the players can get a 50% reduction if they can prove they didn't know they were taking a banned substance and a further 25% for co operation. However, Saad ended up with an 18mth ban even though he didn't know what he was taking and one of the Australian gymnasts got a hefty ban even though she didn't know that the pill she was given by her coach was banned.So I don't know how this applies. Apparently they are facing 2yr bans. This could have been reduced to 6mths if they had co operated and proven they didn't know what they were taking but by not co operating it would appear they will be facing a minumum of 12mth bans and possibly longer based on what happened to Saad.

That is of course assuming the evidence ASADA has assembled is enough to establish guilt. Given it's all circumstantial I would say this isn't a given. Although having said that Justice Downing, the retired Federal Court judge reviewed it and was satisifed there was enough. As was the US guy who actually drafted the WADA Code. As did ASADA's QC and investigating officers etc etc.

As I understand it all Essendon and Hird's case was about was suppressing the evidence from the player interviews. But all they could have said was that they were given injections but they didn't know what they were, so this evidence probably isn't critical anyway. I understand that the evidence ASADA will rely on is the paperwork showing the orders from Dank to the supplier for the illegal Beta 4; the supply from the Chinese supplier of Beta 4; the compounding chemist evidence and Danks evidence of the dossages to be given which didn't show the actual substance but were the dosses and regularity for Beta 4 not the legal substances. That evidence is what will be assessed at the Tribunal and probably the Admin Appeals Tribunal on appeal and then the Court of Arbitration for Sport on appeal from the AAT. It's going to be a long road.

Edited November 13, 2014 by It's Time

[Dees2014 2,377]

Can anyone tell me what the reduction in sanction would have been if the players had co operated with ASADA. There was also a reduction if the players can prove they had no knowledge of taking the banned substance. I know it was discussed on here a long time ago. I know one of them is a 6mth reduction and one was 12mths but I can't remember which was which. Obviously they have chosen not to get the reduction for co operation.

Well normally if you admit guilt and FULLY cooperate it is reduced from 2 years to six months which if you are smart can be taken in the off season which is what Cronhulla have done. By fighting it, and tying it up in courts, there will not only be no reduction, WADA/ASADA can increase the penalties which is what I believe will happen to ESSENDON. in addition of course, Worksafe are about to start an investigation which won't necessarily affect the players, but could very substantially effect Hird and the Board including heavy fines and even jail terms.

[Pennant St Dee 13,190]

The land rezoning to the benefit of Thompson is a fact.

Yes it may well be but do you think it is all part of teh conspiracy put together, I thnk not

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Well normally if you admit guilt and FULLY cooperate it is reduced from 2 years to six months which if you are smart can be taken in the off season which is what Cronhulla have done. By fighting it, and tying it up in courts, there will not only be no reduction, WADA/ASADA can increase the penalties which is what I believe will happen to ESSENDON. in addition of course, Worksafe are about to start an investigation which won't necessarily affect the players, but could very substantially effect Hird and the Board including heavy fines and even jail terms.

Finally.

I hope your mail is bang on '14, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable on these issues.

[Whispering_Jack 30,198]

There's a whole lot more to this saga than meets the eye but for the 34 players now on the register of findings and soon to receive infraction notices, their llves won't be the same again unless they can clear themselves of responsibility.

Given the way the system works from hereon in, they have their work cut out for them.

Hird should be clearing his desk this afternoon. I think the only thing prolonging his career as an AFL coach is his appeal to the Federal Court Full Bench.

From my perspective, this has taken about 12 months too long to reach this point.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

So the players are now on the Register of Findings.

Does this mean they can still train though? Or they can possibly voluntarily not attend anything to do with the club to get the best deal for backdating sanctions?

[wattsup 470]

Pretty sure they can still train they are effectively banned from this point on till the tribunal, it's a shame where not half way through the season as they wouldn't be able to play

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

How many players look at legal action against the club now?

goodnight Essendon FC.

[beelzebub 23,379]

So the players are now on the Register of Findings.

Does this mean they can still train though? Or they can possibly voluntarily not attend anything to do with the club to get the best deal for backdating sanctions?

They can train , until they are told not to.

I wouldnt be thinking there'll be much backdating...for why....co-operation...admissions....say what ??

[Its Time for Another 4,225]

There's a whole lot more to this saga than meets the eye but for the 34 players now on the register of findings and soon to receive infraction notices, their llves won't be the same again unless they can clear themselves of responsibility.

Given the way the system works from hereon in, they have their work cut out for them.

Hird should be clearing his desk this afternoon. I think the only thing prolonging his career as an AFL coach is his appeal to the Federal Court Full Bench.

From my perspective, this has taken about 12 months too long to reach this point.

The players QC David Grace (incidentally a vocal anti doping advocate as the President of Athletics Australia) is probably the best sports lawyer in the country. He has obviously told them he's so confident of getting them off that they should forego the chance to get a 6mth reduction for co operating. He must be pretty convinced. It's a very big call on his behalf with the consequence being an extra 6mths of ban if he's wrong.

Most of the world think they should go down because it was all so bodgy but that isn't enough in a proper tribunal. That decision will be based on how convincing the circumstantial paper trail is as there's no direct evidence. I don't understand why the onus is on ASADA and not on the players to prove what they took was illegal. The result would be that every dirty athlete in the world who doesn't fail a drug test just has to hide the evidence of what they took and they're free to dope.

[beelzebub 23,379]

Grace must surely be conflicted. Quite bizarre.

[Its Time for Another 4,225]

Grace must surely be conflicted. Quite bizarre.

Very strange case to take on.

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

Very strange case to take on.

I'm sure his new BMW and investment property will ease his concience.

[Wilbur 447]

After all the stalling tactics its finally happening. Burn baby burn. I am looking forward to seeing the hombres in action next year

[Qwerty30 196]

i believe Thompson had a lot less to do with the whole saga than Goodwin, and i sure hope we have checked out our position if this mini series really gets dirty.

Doc Reid is in his own league. How the club doctor isn't up on criminal charges astounds me

As General Manager of the EFC football department his hands have the same blood on them that curses Hird and should damn Reid.

I am not sure why you want to give Thompson a lesser ride than Goodwin when he had a more senior role of responsibility.

He is on the record as challenging what went on but did not follow through.

[Lucifers Hero 39,870]

According to Caroline Wilson: 'No one associated with Thompson is ruling out a claim against the Bombers although predicting Thompson's next move is never a simple matter'. More court cases? There seems to be no end to EFC's ability to shoot itself in the foot! Interesting read:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/mark-thompsons-exit-highlights-the-dysfunction-at-essendons-core-20141113-11m659.html

[monoccular 17,432]

A lot of people have bemoaned the culture of the coaching/ player group at MFC.

Aside from Chapman, you will not get a positive endorsement about the (eventual) standards and environment Thompson set at Cats.

If in doubt join the dots between the Kingsly affair/ loss of trust from playing group and walking away from a coaching contract with a year to run.

I have heard more than one person refer to Thompson as the "King of Coronas and Coke", regarding his profile in the Geelong late night scene.

no, from me.

So are you implying that after a beer he would have a swig of the world's most popular soft drink.......or something else?

I think I can hear the sounds of violin coming from the hangar, it may be a little piece, I have been seeing smoke for some time.

Perhaps Nero (Hird) is on the fiddle.

It would appear that no one knows how to put out the fire, and no one would dare ask Sir James to stop fiddling.

It has occurred to me that this is a sad time. I have been baying for Essendons blood for months, now that it seems inevitable, I feel a kind of pity. This gross incompetence and total disdain for its players and the competition will destroy this once proud club. All involved seem incapable of stopping the spiral.

Watching the EFC over the last year is like watching people in a sinking boat, the people on the boat are poking holes in the boat to let the water out.

Edit spelling+

Brilliant

[premiers in my lifetime? 30]

So are you implying that after a beer he would have a swig of the world's most popular soft drink.......or something else?

Well I am only relaying what some local residents of Geelong told me at the time and repeated a few years later, when the Saga blew up

Still paraphrasing but essentially

"Sleezebag chasing things half his age, ordered players to behave, meanwhile he was getting on the coronas and coke big-time"

[premiers in my lifetime? 30]

So are you implying that after a beer he would have a swig of the world's most popular soft drink.......or something else?

Brilliant

Every-time he looks slightly shifty or erratic in a press conference I get dubious, if he is affected by having or not having something for his nerves.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

and suspended!