Development and our Coaches!

[ashdemons22 235]

I always hear the argument its a development thing, we don't develop players. So I want to bring up the coaching staff at the MFC. I have compared our coaching staff to Collingwood in terms the AFL games played by the coaches and the experience they bring. I also might add it would not be fair to compare us to a powerhouse like Collingwood, so I also compared us to the Bulldogs. Yes I know a good AFL career does not make you a good coach but surely these statistics must come into play. Surely success at AFL level is a good stepping stone to jump into a coaching career. I ask the question is it a football department money issue why we are so far behind? in terms of our coaches playing experience. Or are we just struggling to get good experienced AFL people in our club?

Have a look yourself.

Mark Neeld 74 AFL games Nathan Buckley 280 AFL games Brendan McCartney 0 AFL games

Neil Craig 0 AFL games Rodney Eade 259 AFL games Shannon Grant 301 AFL games

Jade Rawlings 148 AFL games Ben Hart 311 AFL games Brent Montogmery 204 AFL games

Leigh Brown 246 AFL games Matthew Lappin 251 AFL games Rohan Smith 300 AFL games

Brian Royal 199 AFL games Robert Harvey 383 AFL games Steven King 240 AFL games

Andrew Nichol 3 AFL games Mitch Hahn 181 AFL games Peter German 185 AFL games

Paul Slattery 0 AFL games Anthony Rocca 242 AFL games Ashley Hansen 78 AFL games

Aaron Greaves 0 AFL games Tarkyn Locker 227 AFL games Chris Maple 0 AFL games

Melbourne = 670 games Collingwood = 2,134 games Western Bulldogs 1,308 games

[jazza 1,323]

clutching at thin air mate.

figures are something women have.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I don't think it would be a huge issue, perhaps someone like robert harvey would command the respect of a young midfield more than say Brian Royal would

[DeeSpencer 26,084]

Sounds reasonable to me. The more games means the more years under AFL coaches and the more ideas you've been exposed to.

To counter that I believe sattrely, greaves and Craig all had good careers in the level below AFL.

Obviously Neeld has gone for guys who have teaching skills different to experience. That's presuming we couldn't attract more experienced guys

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Would have thought coaching experience at AFL level might also be a factor, just saying. To credit someone like Neil Craig who coached quite successfully at AFL level (and who incidentally also had a very long SANFL career) with 0 games is very misleading. Looks like a bit of a data mining exercise to me...

Edited April 26, 2013 by Radar Detector

[rjay 25,097]

Interesting numbers 'ash', I can see your point. Not sure I agree or not but worth considering.

..maybe add Todd Viney's games as GM Development but we do come up short on AFL experience.

[Little Goffy 14,645]

Neil Craig - 0 games

Plus, also, isn't he the record-holder for SANFL games? Hasn't he been coaching in one form or another (with a stint in cycling) basically since he finished playing?

You'd have to look to Malthouse or Sheedy to find someone with more experience, I would guess.

As for the others, it is certainly interesting that for a few positions there we've followed a path of 'professional coaches' rather than ex-players.

I'm not prepared to make a call on whether that is the best path or not, but I wouldn't say no if Simon Black and Dustin Fletcher were looking for development coach positions!

[ThreeOneSix 954]

This is why Wellman and Ratten were big losses for us.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

We picked the development coaches from successful Junior organisations, hence good at developing young players, but also developing tthem as well, Neeld obviously wants to be at MFC for a long time, so if Coach leaves we have a ready made ready to take next step

The senior assistant coaches all played 150 odd AFL games, so must have been ok

Neeld was taught by one of the best and he has Craig backing him up (Craig has probably forgotten more about coaching than the rest of us we even know)

This is why Wellman and Ratten were big losses for us.

This is just twaddle

Watched training yesterday, Royal was fine with the midfielders group, listened to what he had to say and carried it out to the letter

[daisycutter 29,743]

I always hear the argument its a development thing, we don't develop players. So I want to bring up the coaching staff at the MFC. I have compared our coaching staff to Collingwood in terms the AFL games played by the coaches and the experience they bring. I also might add it would not be fair to compare us to a powerhouse like Collingwood, so I also compared us to the Bulldogs. Yes I know a good AFL career does not make you a good coach but surely these statistics must come into play. Surely success at AFL level is a good stepping stone to jump into a coaching career. I ask the question is it a football department money issue why we are so far behind? in terms of our coaches playing experience. Or are we just struggling to get good experienced AFL people in our club?

Have a look yourself.

Mark Neeld 74 AFL games Nathan Buckley 280 AFL games Brendan McCartney 0 AFL games

Neil Craig 0 AFL games Rodney Eade 259 AFL games Shannon Grant 301 AFL games

Jade Rawlings 148 AFL games Ben Hart 311 AFL games Brent Montogmery 204 AFL games

Leigh Brown 246 AFL games Matthew Lappin 251 AFL games Rohan Smith 300 AFL games

Brian Royal 199 AFL games Robert Harvey 383 AFL games Steven King 240 AFL games

Andrew Nichol 3 AFL games Mitch Hahn 181 AFL games Peter German 185 AFL games

Paul Slattery 0 AFL games Anthony Rocca 242 AFL games Ashley Hansen 78 AFL games

Aaron Greaves 0 AFL games Tarkyn Locker 227 AFL games Chris Maple 0 AFL games

Melbourne = 670 games Collingwood = 2,134 games Western Bulldogs 1,308 games

would like to see the same table with games coached figures as a counterpoint

result might be similar, but the more data the better

[daisycutter 29,743]

Watched training yesterday, Royal was fine with the midfielders group, listened to what he had to say and carried it out to the letter

maybe that is the problem then?

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

maybe that is the problem then?

Actually they practised and practised what we all reckon we are lacking, run and spread from a stoppage, but if you want to be cynical about your team, that is your choice,

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I always hear the argument its a development thing, we don't develop players. So I want to bring up the coaching staff at the MFC. I have compared our coaching staff to Collingwood in terms the AFL games played by the coaches and the experience they bring. I also might add it would not be fair to compare us to a powerhouse like Collingwood, so I also compared us to the Bulldogs. Yes I know a good AFL career does not make you a good coach but surely these statistics must come into play. Surely success at AFL level is a good stepping stone to jump into a coaching career. I ask the question is it a football department money issue why we are so far behind? in terms of our coaches playing experience. Or are we just struggling to get good experienced AFL people in our club?

Have a look yourself.

Mark Neeld 74 AFL games Nathan Buckley 280 AFL games Brendan McCartney 0 AFL games

Neil Craig 0 AFL games Rodney Eade 259 AFL games Shannon Grant 301 AFL games

Jade Rawlings 148 AFL games Ben Hart 311 AFL games Brent Montogmery 204 AFL games

Leigh Brown 246 AFL games Matthew Lappin 251 AFL games Rohan Smith 300 AFL games

Brian Royal 199 AFL games Robert Harvey 383 AFL games Steven King 240 AFL games

Andrew Nichol 3 AFL games Mitch Hahn 181 AFL games Peter German 185 AFL games

Paul Slattery 0 AFL games Anthony Rocca 242 AFL games Ashley Hansen 78 AFL games

Aaron Greaves 0 AFL games Tarkyn Locker 227 AFL games Chris Maple 0 AFL games

Melbourne = 670 games Collingwood = 2,134 games Western Bulldogs 1,308 games

Neil Craig played 319 games in the SNAFL (the oldest surviving football league of any code in Australia and owns the sub licences for two AFL teams: the Crows and Port), two of those were premership wins, he kicked 220 goals, was a captain for two years, and was apparently hunted by Footscray but declined to stay in South Australia.

He also played 11 State of Orign games and considering his Olympic experience as a senior sports scientist for Cycling, his two premership involvements as fitness adivsor and assistant coach during two Adeliade premership wins, he led the Crows to their first a minor premership as Coach in 2005, and leading them on to 4 more consequtive finals making both one of the most experienced players of Australian Rules Football in your list and also one of the most all rounded/experienced coaches in the AFL.

Whilst you are not wrong, he never played any football for a team in the VFL - your stats are incredibly bias and do not show "the experience they bring"

EDIT: spelling/grammar

Edited April 26, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Jarka 767]

Kevin Bartlett: 4,456 games, Coaching skills: Zero

[Moonshadow 17,677]

clutching at thin air mate.

figures are something women have.

Then I'd like to clutch at that figure

[daisycutter 29,743]

Actually they practised and practised what we all reckon we are lacking, run and spread from a stoppage, but if you want to be cynical about your team, that is your choice,

i don't think it is cynical to recognise that the results of our midfield development and game plan are not up to standard

being critical based on observation of reality is not cynicism (although i am quite capable of being cynical when i choose)

[old dee 23,872]

This subject amuses me.

We seem to have it every other week.

IMO it is combination of both poor selection and perhaps not the best development.

But I believe it is more poor selection, in the end you cannot turn a sows ear into a silk purse.

There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that between 2007 and 2011 ( five drafting years ) we chose poorly.

I acknowledge it is not an exact science but we have chosen some shockers and we are now trying to escape that problem.

Unfortunately it is going to take a few more years to cure the problem.

Edited April 26, 2013 by old dee

[daisycutter 29,743]

it has to be both od based on probabilities

you can't have so many top 20 picks (and not just by mfc's judgement) go pear shaped

statistically these figures are just too horrific to be blamed just on poor selection (which i concede is definitely part of the problem)

just why the development was sub standard is another story (and fast becoming history i hope)

[old dee 23,872]

it has to be both od based on probabilities

you can't have so many top 20 picks (and not just by mfc's judgement) go pear shaped

statistically these figures are just too horrific to be blamed just on poor selection (which i concede is definitely part of the problem)

just why the development was sub standard is another story (and fast becoming history i hope)

Yes dc I try to convince myself it is all in the past and we have changed both elements.

The hard part is trying to live through the next couple of years ( Min.)

[darkhorse72 1,925]

Kevin Bartlett: 4,456 games, Coaching skills: Zero

Because team players make better coaches....

I tend to find the more successful coaches played in the back line.

As for the number of AFL games...what about certain players that had the same coach for their entire career, not much variety there.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

i don't think it is cynical to recognise that the results of our midfield development and game plan are not up to standard

being critical based on observation of reality is not cynicism (although i am quite capable of being cynical when i choose)

And there was me thinking that Essendon's midfield a couple of years ago was being criticised for being slow, isn't it marvellous if things are just given a chance to develop

[BarnDee 287]

And there was me thinking that Essendon's midfield a couple of years ago was being criticised for being slow, isn't it marvellous if things are just given a chance to develop

and what do you think got them up to speed ?

[Guest]

I was talking about 'Land theme songs earlier.... I have just worked out Satiryconhome's!!!

[hardtack 10,627]

I was talking about 'Land theme songs earlier.... I have just worked out Satiryconhome's!!!

And I have one for the rest:

[Guest]

And I have one for the rest:

I would have chosen another REM ditty.