148 > 186... Bailey was far better than Neeld.

[Dr. Mubutu 831]

Guys,

Does anyone know how I can find the team that took the field at Skilled for '186'?

Would be interested to compare the talent we've lost versus what we've brought in for '148'.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2011/091120110730.html

Kudos to whoever runs this site. Excellent resource.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Neeld has done it with a list full of talent, he just has no idea how to make the talent grow and show itself.

After the performance from the players over the past few games I'd say its the exact opposite

[Weedster 174]

Bailey was never going to coach us to a premiership.

The right decision was made.

Whether or not Neeld was the right successor, time will tell.

Spot on. What is crystal clear however is that the recruiting stategy and player development under the Bailey/Prendegast era was a disaster. And I'm not sure it has improved much since.

[H_T 3,043]

Nice post but its crap. Wona left for family reasons, Jurrah the same. Morton, Bennell, Petterd, Cook and co were between average and a joke. We were a team of front runners which is how Moloney got his votes. We got flogged by the better sides and literally beaten up by the good sides. We were going nowhere. Neeld needs to be left to see out his contract. If someone better is then available lets take them. Schwab can go fark himself. On that we agree

A more accurate description of events.

[Mono 455]

Very sad.....Neeld has dismantled our list & filled it up with rejects!

Cameron Ling did say the Cats wr great at developing players & draft picks are only a small part of it!

Look @ Sydney, their culture very strong & developing both young & discards is very strong

Ted Richards,Mitch Morton.Josh Kenedy.......

Neeld talks about another rebuild.... why when we had early picks & proven older players that just needed to be managed better

And who would they be?

[[email protected] 101]

Bailey was never going to coach us to a premiership.

The right decision was made.

Whether or not Neeld was the right successor, time will tell.

????? from where I am sitting, Time has already told in Neeld's case....

[Die Hard Demon 1,224]

Maybe we just had no talent then and no talent now. (Not including our first year players). I was just listening to SEN, and they were saying our list has no talent. (Bar a couple players; Clark, Jones, Full stop?)

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,703]

Can't argue with the facts!

I still believe we were going nowhere under Bailey, and played one way footy under him,

But I think Neeld's approach of basically incinerating the place when he came in is too far the other way, and we are feeling the repercussions of this!

The team was winning games of footy before............did he have to pull the house down just because it needed restumping???

Neeld has no way out of this now...............it isn't whether or not he get's sacked this year, but simply when.

Only a miracle can save him now, and they just don't exist in footy!

Well, I'm glad your position is clear.

(To be fair, you do claim that miracles don't exist in footy).

[P-man 13,366]

Maybe we just had no talent then and no talent now. (Not including our first year players). I was just listening to SEN, and they were saying our list has no talent. (Bar a couple players; Clark, Jones, Full stop?)

Sorry but that is garbage. How can you judge a player's ability when they've been stripped of all confidence and play with zero intensity?What would Joel Selwood be without these qualities?

Talent isn't an issue. There is enough talent on our list to make a charge, it just appears we have a panel of numpties who are guiding them. They are running around like a bunch of headless chooks.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Look, I get the gist of the OP's point and that we're presently going nowhere. We also appointed an untried coach after Bailey when it was painfully obvious to all and sundry that an experienced head was required, but that's done now - we can only learn from it. But please, please. Any attempt to look at 186 or 148 as anything but the players putting in disgraceful bordering on mutinous efforts is sickening to me.

Well then did Sheedy lose the players at Essendon when he lost a game by 160 plus in his second or third season. Did they panick and sack him? I think they finished bottom 4 that year.

OP is dead right. there were failings in DB gameplan but nothing comparable with the utter disaster now. I promise you, no-one at the club can tell you what the bloody gameplan is!

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Maybe we just had no talent then and no talent now. (Not including our first year players). I was just listening to SEN, and they were saying our list has no talent. (Bar a couple players; Clark, Jones, Full stop?)

This is sheer rubbish. At the end of 2010 we had won 8.5 games and the pundits were full of praise for our young list .Don't tell me that at the end of 2010 anyone thought Trengove was no good--or Watts, Petterd,Moloney, Garland,Jamar,Rivers etc.

THERE WAS NO CRISIS AT MFC AT THE END OF 2010. Four years after we last made the finals---2006 (13th time in 20 years incidentally) the club was on track. A number of promising talented players have now become hacks under MN. and it's his disgraceful habit of blaming DB for his plight which disgusts me. I quite like the bloke, and wanted to hug him after the Ess disaster, but my God, he's flawed.

[praha 11,236]

I watched some of the Melbourne v Sydney game from 2010 the other night.

I was in Greece atm so I missed what many say was Melbourne's most dominate win of the past 6 years.

A quote from Bruce:

"Oh they're gonna be something! The Dees are gonna be something!"

The team was unstoppable that day. They players' attack at the ball, confidence in one another, overall effort and competitiveness is something I don't think we've seen since.

I don't get the whole, "it's a culture thing", but it clearly is, that players can't perform when the team collectively isn't performing, that "leaders" and experienced players can't lead from the front when the team folds.

I question Neeld because he says so much was wrong, but yet there's more wrong with his team then there was before he arrived, or while Bailey was coach.

It's not that I don't have faith, I just think we need to hold him more accountable to what he says. "Give it time" is something you say when you're sure there will be outcomes. In the mean time, if you're not reaching goals that bring you closer to your end goal -- the "time" -- then there is something wrong.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Cudi_420

[stueyspencer no12 73]

It all comes down to expectations, and that is why 2013 is such a bitter pill to swallow.

Under Bailey we improved, but only enough to beat interstate teams at the G. 186 was a loss we all expected, but at a far greater magnitude. He had to go

Neeld seemed the right man on paper - everything that Bailey wasnt, and was a midfield coach at one of the best clubs in the land.

Now we cant even beat up on interstate teams at the G (refer to round 1) and our players are bereft of confidence

Its a sad state of affairs, but we need to stick it out (again!)

It's just not right! Huge win v Swans at G in 2010, the same year we drew with Pies (premiers) and lost to them by a point. You don't play 15 matches v Interstate clubs at the G. And anyway a 96 point win against Adelaide and Freo--both finalists the next year while we went backwards--wasn't too bad. Amazing how people ignore the facts to bag DB

[_becks_ 35]

Can't argue with the facts!

I still believe we were going nowhere under Bailey, and played one way footy under him,

But I think Neeld's approach of basically incinerating the place when he came in is too far the other way, and we are feeling the repercussions of this!

The team was winning games of footy before............did he have to pull the house down just because it needed restumping???

Neeld has no way out of this now...............it isn't whether or not he get's sacked this year, but simply when.

Only a miracle can save him now, and they just don't exist in footy!

Completely agree with this. He's taken the tough love approach too far...as well as alienating a lot of the players...

[Deano74 156]

Neeld has done it with a list full of talent, he just has no idea how to make the talent grow and show itself.

Neelds done it with a full list (exit the talent)

You cant turn players into stars over night. Jones has played 135 + games to get where he is.

Theres no magic wand, That he can wave and turn ex Morton into Judd, which is why he was cut.

You need to recruit well, and we are paying the price for bad selections over time, Where is Cook now for example.

Least hes come in and got Clark, Viney, Hogan, Terlich and Kent for example.

Then its about getting consitant weekly game time into McDonald, Grimes, Trengrove , Blease, Evans, M Jones, Tapscott, Gawn, Howe, jetta, watts etc.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

I think Bailey was ordinary and Neeld is much the same.

It's a bit hit and miss with these first year coaches.

Pretty important to get them from the right clubs.

Geelong and Sydney are logical choices as they are hands down the most well run football clubs in the league.

They don't rely on talent alone, they have minimal off field issues and they consistantly play good football.

Hinkley, Ross Lyon, Ross, Bomber, Sanderson are examples of coaches from these clubs, they all go alright.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,703]

We should always keep in mind that it takes time to build up culture and very little time to damage it.

If we believe in Bailey's time the culture went backwards (which I do), then it will take longer to repair that damage than it took to wreak it.

[thaipantsman 180]

Remember Neeld and co may have erred in recruiting Rodan, Byrnes and Gillies. But they also drafted Hogan, Viney at 26, Toumpas, Barry, Terlich, Kent and Jones. Besides Rivers the rest were deadwood at this club. Give the FD some time for change to take effect. We have the makings of a good team. Hold the line Demons we'll get through this

Remember Neeld and co may have erred in recruiting Rodan, Byrnes and Gillies. But they also drafted Hogan, Viney at 26, Toumpas, Barry, Terlich, Kent and Jones. Besides Rivers the rest were deadwood at this club. Give the FD some time for change to take effect. We have the makings of a good team. Hold the line Demons we'll get through this

Don't

Agree with the deadwood comment a la Petterd, Maloney ...PREDICTION JURRAH will be back next year with Port. He's too much of a gun to leave top level footy.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

Full list of talent - laughing. We have a one player midfield bloke!

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

Hurrah is currently in jail

Moloney was subbed off at half time with six touches.

[jnrmac 20,055]

Posted this in another thread but possibly more relevant here...

Bailey had four losses greater than 90 points in 4 yrs (Incl 186)

Neeld has had 6. 4 of them this year.

He can't coach.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Posted this in another thread but possibly more relevant here...

Bailey had four losses greater than 90 points in 4 yrs (Incl 186)

Neeld has had 6. 4 of them this year.

He can't coach.

Interesting and damning stat.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

I think you guys are talking about Dumb and Dumber!

Good rid to both of them.