Time to go Mark Neeld

[robbiefrom13 892]

If he didnt understand the game plan why didnt he ask for clarrification

you can't spell - and maybe he did ask

[robbiefrom13 892]

I don't think it takes a lot to work out what happened and why.....

The Green-Moloney- Rivers leadership group went to the Board on the eve of 186 and asked them to sack CS. When CS - and his mate, Gary Lyon - starting talking to possible replacements the first thing they said was that the leadership group had rebelled and that they expected the new coach to pull it apart and start afresh. The day CS prevailed over Bailey was the day the leaders effectively lost their jobs. We are kidding ourselves if we think that Neeld started assessing the leaders with a clean sheet of paper.

Neeld may have irretrievably "lost" the players with his tough initial stance - but I'm not sure that would have been entirely his fault.I'm prepared to give him the rest of the season to demonstrate progress ................ but I reserve the right to change my mind if we get thrashed this week!!

this sounds very plausible. I'm anti-Neeld, but maybe he (unwisely) was following direction initially; and perhaps with Schwab gone he is free to win back what he lost earlier. I'll be watching to see signs of that - and, as I have in forming my present opinion, believe what I see. When there's a plausible suggestion of things changing, you should be prepared to change your opinion.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I don't think it takes a lot to work out what happened and why.....

The Green-Moloney- Rivers leadership group went to the Board on the eve of 186 and asked them to sack CS. When CS - and his mate, Gary Lyon - starting talking to possible replacements the first thing they said was that the leadership group had rebelled and that they expected the new coach to pull it apart and start afresh. The day CS prevailed over Bailey was the day the leaders effectively lost their jobs. We are kidding ourselves if we think that Neeld started assessing the leaders with a clean sheet of paper.

Neeld may have irretrievably "lost" the players with his tough initial stance - but I'm not sure that would have been entirely his fault.I'm prepared to give him the rest of the season to demonstrate progress ................ but I reserve the right to change my mind if we get thrashed this week!!

A perfect example of never let the facts distort the myth.

Even by your own fantasy the players would seem to be miles head of the Board when 18 months later the Board sacked the CEO soon after the AFL brought down the 3rd largest fine in AFL history and suspended 2 direct reports for tanking.

Maybe the players didn't throwing games and deliberately losing. How dare they prefer to win every game they can? Appalling.

[dee_star 63]

I heard Rivers speak on Triple M while sitting in traffic last night, and what struck me were his comments about the pre-season training at Geelong compared to Melbourne. He said that Geelong, despite all the youngsters on their list, don't do any of the straight running that Melbourne do.

The Cats get the footballs out from day one of pre-season and get their fitness while doing "football training" rather than running for an hour then doing skills under fatigue, where bad habits get ingrained and the quality of training suffers.

When we talk about how unfit we look maybe this is part of the reason, we do too much running in pre-season that isn't "game running". The times I've seen us train in the pre-season we've done lots of lap running in pairs, which is obviously nothing like what happens during a game. Not sure it says much for the "elite training standards" that we've heard so much about

[jumbo returns 6,741]

deny everything! I'm right, I am!!

For years, supporters, followers, lovers and all D'landers have been asking for ruthlessness, culling, etc - now we have it, things are getting better with a different zeitgeist around the Club and ex players come out and make dumb, undiplomatic comments.

He wanted to go, done, go....shake hands and move on.

Could you please try and be more constructive with your replies?

[Pates 9,660]

I heard Rivers speak on Triple M while sitting in traffic last night, and what struck me were his comments about the pre-season training at Geelong compared to Melbourne. He said that Geelong, despite all the youngsters on their list, don't do any of the straight running that Melbourne do.

The Cats get the footballs out from day one of pre-season and get their fitness while doing "football training" rather than running for an hour then doing skills under fatigue, where bad habits get ingrained and the quality of training suffers.

When we talk about how unfit we look maybe this is part of the reason, we do too much running in pre-season that isn't "game running". The times I've seen us train in the pre-season we've done lots of lap running in pairs, which is obviously nothing like what happens during a game. Not sure it says much for the "elite training standards" that we've heard so much about

Because our fitness was so far behind maybe they've gone to the opposite extreme to get up to standard, and next year they will settle into a more skills combined fitness program. Certainly skill are what kills us at the moment. Edited May 10, 2013 by Pates

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Grimes has proved himself and Trengove hasn't? Give me a break. I'd prefer the ball in the hands of Trengove over Grimes every day of the week. Though ultimately I deem them both to be "AFL standard", just nowhere near where we want them to be eventually.

Just a quick side point too. It gives me the shits that Neeld refers to JT as "Trengrove". Get it right. You coach the kid and appointed him captain for crying out loud. Take a listen to the Neeld/Dawes press conference.

I'd put Grimes and Trengove on about a par development wise atm albeit Trengove's had a poor start this year through injury. I see your point though. Was mainly meant to highlight the new guys who haven't played enough games to really know and/or fringe players.

In hindsight i should have included Grimes as well. I still don't believe either player has cemented themselves as a genuine AFL level/standard player. Well on the way to doing so but i think in a team placed somewhere within the 8 they would both be "fringe" players at the moment. Getting a few games here and there but having to fight tooth and nail to stay in the best 22. That's what i meant by still proving themselves at this level.

Getting regular games at Melbourne is not a good reference point to where our players might be at as we are at the lowest end of pretty much all benchmarks atm and have been since Neeld commenced.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

the quicker we get the club a Training Ground & Office/SocialHub out away from the winter shadows of the 'G', the sooner we'll have a long lasting culture & player development.

.

I'd like to see us in more of an all in one real "Club" set up too deeluded. But where abouts and also how would we find the money for that now that we're such a basket case on the field? The club's coffers would hardly be expanding at a great rate at this point.

[robbiefrom13 892]

For years, supporters, followers, lovers and all D'landers have been asking for ruthlessness, culling, etc - now we have it, things are getting better with a different zeitgeist around the Club and ex players come out and make dumb, undiplomatic comments.

He wanted to go, done, go....shake hands and move on.

Could you please try and be more constructive with your replies?

not all Demonlanders. Some of us have thought and said that the opposite might work better. Results haven't been unambiguous have they?

"Things are getting better"? I don't see any consensus on that, either.

"Diplomatic commentary" is hardly a criterion around Demonland, surely?

But, I guess such observations are invalid by virtue of your "constructive" criterion?

What I (undiplomatically, unconstructively) observe is that there is a lot of rank-pulling dismissal of unwelcome commentary on Demonland. It's what I see. Should this be unacceptable comment? Why, when our players can be vilified and it be claimed that their hopelessness is a matter of patently inarguable common sense by anyone who knows football, etc etc? Doublestandardsland, I reckon.

[Cards13 9,117]

Said Neeld came in and paid no respect to senior players, turned the club into an unhappy place to go to work. "It's nice to sleep at night and get up in the morning looking forward to the day ahead" "It's good to go into a game knowing what the game plan is"

The same senior players who had delivered exactly what to the premiership cabinet?? I wonder why respect was limited...

[What 18,810]

Rivers and Moloney are heroes of our club

Umm no they arent.

and never were.

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

Umm no they arent.

and never were.

Correct.

Jim Stynes is a Legend of the MFC.

The 2 players mentioned above are nowhere near his legacy.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Freddy

I loved and respected Rivers as a player; he was one of our best every year and a courageous leader in the back line.

I'd give what he says a lot of credibility.

Neeld was an arrogant ponce for coming in and getting players like that off-side. Surely one of the basic tenets of leading any sort of organization is to capitalize upon what strengths you do have. The appointment of Grimes and Trenners was the first of many mistakes brought about by Neelds lack of footy smarts.

Cheers

I agree with this. I have always thought Neeld took a fairly abrupt and potentially arrogant approach with the senior players (and Jack Watts) when he came to the club.

I didn't think it was particularly clever at the time, and I suspect with the benefit of hindsight Neeld would probably have done a few things differently if he had his time again.

That said, I think Neeld has softened in his approach in this respect in recent months. He is learning too, and it seems he has learnt some things about dealing with the players and also with the media.

In short, I think Neeld quickly, and correctly, identified the problems with the list and the culture upon his arrival. Although I think the way in which he initially implemented some of his changes lacked a certain amount of emotional intelligence. After all, clubs are about people - and I suspect Neeld didn't give sufficient respect to this fact at the end of 2011. Losing Moloney and Rivers was not cool - they should still be on our list IMO.

However, we are now seeing a far more professional, disciplined player group IMO - and the foundations for success are clearly being implemented at the moment. Technically, the changes have been sound - in player management terms though, perhaps there's further room for improvement.

And this is the very reason I would like to see a contract extension announced for Colin Sylvia asap.

[Chook 15,022]

I don't think even the most strident Neeld supporters would say he's made no mistakes (or even that he's made no significant mistakes). I think where a lot of us are coming from is that to switch to another coach in the near future would undo some of the things we've put in place over the last 18 months. Until we can see that those initiatives haven't worked, we need to see them through.

I've always thought that next year is Neeld's litmus test. If he doesn't make significant steps in 2014, I'd get him out as soon as possible. But until then, there's just no earthly way of knowing which direction we are rowing.

[Pitchy 196]

Yep Ron, Neeld is learning. But now it is far too late. Any old [censored] would have known immediately. Drives core talent (Riv, Molo, Pett, Jurrah, Martin, Gys etc.) off the list and he brings in duds. Set us back 3 years from where he took over.

His arrogance has been the most unbearable. Neeld, a new untried senior coach swanned in as though he won the premiership for Collingwood! He looks around the place and just thinks this place sux!! Sub-AFL, sub AFL, no culture, no leaders, no facilities. He got everything he could have hoped for spending department wise once Schwab had won the civil war. Then he just went and butchered our leaders, our gameplan, our morale, our development. All the while making out as if he is gods gift to 'premiership football'. Bailey won premierships as an assistant too! Didn't carry on that Danners was sub-AFL etc. Showed some respect and tried to develop things. Bails got us to 8.5 wins while Schwab was forcing tanking culture down from above - sacking jnr mac and brock leaving being the most detrimental aspects of Schwabs policy.

I can see Neeld getting sacked and walking away thinking "I went to a basket case with a winning model and they didn't let me see it through". What he should be thinking is. "Gee, I got almost everything wrong and I am more suited to being an assistant". Nice guy but please take some responsibilty Mark - we were AFL standard better before you came, we will be after you leave.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Demonstrative

[Chook 15,022]

Yep Ron, Neeld is learning. But now it is far too late. Any old [censored] would have known immediately. Drives core talent (Riv, Molo, Pett, Jurrah, Martin, Gys etc.) off the list and he brings in duds. Set us back 3 years from where he took over.

His arrogance has been the most unbearable. Neeld, a new untried senior coach swanned in as though he won the premiership for Collingwood! He looks around the place and just thinks this place sux!! Sub-AFL, sub AFL, no culture, no leaders, no facilities. He got everything he could have hoped for spending department wise once Schwab had won the civil war. Then he just went and butchered our leaders, our gameplan, our morale, our development. All the while making out as if he is gods gift to 'premiership football'. Bailey won premierships as an assistant too! Didn't carry on that Danners was sub-AFL etc. Showed some respect and tried to develop things. Bails got us to 8.5 wins while Schwab was forcing tanking culture down from above - sacking jnr mac and brock leaving being the most detrimental aspects of Schwabs policy.

I can see Neeld getting sacked and walking away thinking "I went to a basket case with a winning model and they didn't let me see it through". What he should be thinking is. "Gee, I got almost everything wrong and I am more suited to being an assistant". Nice guy but please take some responsibilty Mark - we were AFL standard better before you came, we will be after you leave.

So let me get this straight:

Bailey = Good

Bailey-era Schwab = Bad

Neeld = Bad

Neeld-era Schwab = Good

Is that about the gist of it?

Bailey was the man who built his house on sand. Things looked nice, but a few bad storms washed us all away.

Neeld is the man who builds his house on stone. The hardest part comes first, but after that I think you'll find things will come easier - no matter who is coach by then.

[old55 23,687]

... and the foundations for success are clearly being implemented at the moment. Technically, the changes have been sound ...

I like your posting Ron, but what's the evidence for this?

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

Yep Ron, Neeld is learning. But now it is far too late. Any old [censored] would have known immediately. Drives core talent (Riv, Molo, Pett, Jurrah, Martin, Gys etc.) off the list and he brings in duds. Set us back 3 years from where he took over.

His arrogance has been the most unbearable. Neeld, a new untried senior coach swanned in as though he won the premiership for Collingwood! He looks around the place and just thinks this place sux!! Sub-AFL, sub AFL, no culture, no leaders, no facilities. He got everything he could have hoped for spending department wise once Schwab had won the civil war. Then he just went and butchered our leaders, our gameplan, our morale, our development. All the while making out as if he is gods gift to 'premiership football'. Bailey won premierships as an assistant too! Didn't carry on that Danners was sub-AFL etc. Showed some respect and tried to develop things. Bails got us to 8.5 wins while Schwab was forcing tanking culture down from above - sacking jnr mac and brock leaving being the most detrimental aspects of Schwabs policy.

I can see Neeld getting sacked and walking away thinking "I went to a basket case with a winning model and they didn't let me see it through". What he should be thinking is. "Gee, I got almost everything wrong and I am more suited to being an assistant". Nice guy but please take some responsibilty Mark - we were AFL standard better before you came, we will be after you leave.

The only thing you are demonstrating is ignorance, according to some of the posters on here, we were nowhere near AFL standard when Bailey was coach, Including me, we needed to do something, yes the wins were good, but we were stagnating, you going against the grain...Neeld did win a premiership at Collingwood , it takes the whole Club and he was part of it

As for driving core talent away, Gysberts can't get a game at Norths, Moloney has had one good game at Brisbane, same with Martin, Jurrah won't even go there unlike you, Rivers was chasing a finals appearance before his knees gave out (injured)

Er you have to be confident as a Coach, what don't you want him to be?

As for bringing in Duds, it is not only what they do on the field, what's wrong not instant enough for you?

Neeld has made mistakes, but not on the scale you are talking about, actually one of them is thinking all MFC supporters are knowledgeable

Edited May 11, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

First up I just want to restate that I don't think our results at the moment are close to good enough, What I want to know from the anti Neeld side is, What disappoints you blokes the most?? Are you most angry because

Simply results?

Because Neeld IMO has said these blokes )current list) aren't good enough and has taken up a total rebuild? or you just think he is not good enough as a coach, for whatever reason?

For me I still don't know if he is the right coach - results in 2013 are gong to dictate if he stays or not. For mine though even though we've gone backwards and are rebuilding I reckon he's put this club in a good position. Not for 2013 but this is the reason I think why.

Hogan, Toumpas and young Jack, he's brough in Mitch and Dawes. These blokes aren't going to pay dividends now, but in 2014/15 when we get a group that matures together and a decent midfield group I reckon this club will explode.

There is a lot of hard work left to do and we need blokes like Evans,, M Jones, T MacDonald, Howe etc to keep growing, and it's going to take time but If Neeld does the right thing and keeps maturing this group I reckon we could have a decent side.... The hardest thing to accept is that it is not going to happen in 2013

Edited May 11, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

we have been pretty unlucky, a full pre season into trengove and clark, and take injuries away from them and dawes and we may have been more competitive, the point being it's hard to judge Neeld on that, if you took cloke and Lynch out of collingwood they wouldn't be anywhere near as dangerous

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

we have been pretty unlucky, a full pre season into trengove and clark, and take injuries away from them and dawes and we may have been more competitive, the point being it's hard to judge Neeld on that, if you took cloke and Lynch out of collingwood they wouldn't be anywhere near as dangerous

Yep Demonfan, i reckon this has hut us a lot as well.... Trenners is clearly playing through injury. As much as it is funny for opposition supporters to laugh at our poor development there is no way a classy junior like Trengrove is 100% at the moment or for the past 18 months

Edited May 11, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Yep Demonfan, i reckon this has hut us a lot as well.... Trenners is clearly playing through injury. As much as it is funny for opposition supporters to laugh at our poor development there is no way a classy junior like Trengrove is 100% at the moment or for the past 18 months

I have always believed when you match hard work with talent you get success, Trengove works as hard as anyone and he is loaded with talent, so when he gets his body in order and a full pre season i have no doubt he will make alot of people look silly,

these are the things we just need to keep faith in, a couple of these blokes have break out years and we get our best team on the park not just for one week but for several in a row, see what our absolute best footy is like, we can judge from there but the point is, we're calling for Neelds head on a win loss ratio and things like that, which is understandable and probably fair enough,

But how can someone say the bloke can't coach fullstop, none of us have seen our best 22 on the park together for one game, let alone the several rounds in a row they would need to find top form.

We really just don't know

Edited May 11, 2013 by Demonfan26

[Cards13 9,117]

On both sides respect is earnt not given based on title or games played or "seniority".

[bing181 9,328]

Interesting article on Jackson Thurlow, Geelong recruit who played his first game yesterday. It shows up the gulf between where Geelong and Melbourne are, and helps explain why we've had such difficulty developing players, and why simply putting good young players out there (Viney, Evans, Matt Jones, Terlich etc. included) isn't enough:

"The senior boys said that they would try and get me into the game early, so I can't thank them enough," he said. "The way they go about it and the way they involve everyone in it, there was no reason for me to not get a kick."

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The only thing you are demonstrating is ignorance, according to some of the posters on here, we were nowhere near AFL standard when Bailey was coach, Including me, we needed to do something, yes the wins were good, but we were stagnating, you going against the grain...Neeld did win a premiership at Collingwood , it takes the whole Club and he was part of it

As for driving core talent away, Gysberts can't get a game at Norths, Moloney has had one good game at Brisbane, same with Martin, Jurrah won't even go there unlike you, Rivers was chasing a finals appearance before his knees gave out (injured)

Er you have to be confident as a Coach, what don't you want him to be?

As for bringing in Duds, it is not only what they do on the field, what's wrong not instant enough for you?

Neeld has made mistakes, but not on the scale you are talking about, actually one of them is thinking all MFC supporters are knowledgeable

Yes, you got that right.

We have players he's brought in to the club that wouldn't get a gig on any other list in the comp; if you want to bring in experience then at least get someone that can hold a place in the side.

Why leave Magner on the list if he isn't worth a game when we need some extractors and help for Jones?

Moloney has been a very good contributor for Brisbane and he would be the first or second in the B&F if he was at our club right now.