Neeld on SEN this morning

[Return to Glory 8,436]

I don't know,the set up of the football department but I'll take your word that there's been changes for the better. What are they?

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I wonder how long Neeld will be able to set up camp under the "lower your expectations" narrative.

I'd say he has about 12 weeks. If the season starts like it did in 2012 then things could get out of hand.

The media is begging for us to fall apart. It's a lot if pressure working under those circumstances. I feel for them, but if they are up for the challenge they will rise. If not then, well, it's just like every other year for the better part of a decade.

[waynewussell 5,738]

He won't need 12 weeks. The team will put this 'prophets of doom' talk to bed in six!

[Grapeviney 9,718]

Just for a bit of contrast, here's a direct quote from Bulldogs President Peter Gordon at their season launch:

"We've come off a tough year, and we'll face more challenges this year and in the future. We have the polarised issues of an ageing, and yet a very young list, and a shortage in between. In some games we might struggle to score freely. We've made some mistakes along the way, and we're gonna make some more. When we lose games, even if we lose sometimes by a substantial margin, and we sometimes will, I want our people, especially our coach and our captain, to look the press and the cameras in the eye for that game and say, 'we weren't good enough today, we're fighting on'.."

So for all the talk of reality buses and tempering expectations, be thankful no-one is resigned to losing games by significant margins.

Not exactly the best way to convince supporters to fork out for a membership.

[Whispering_Jack 30,054]

Somebody should tell Peter Gordon that the AFL's first language is telling porky pies. His comments are refreshing and honest but go against the grain of what leadership in football is all about. He should listen to the AFL's explanation of the outcome of the tanking investigation to get a handle on how leaders in this sport should communicate.

On the other hand, I think Neeld steered a fairly middle of the road path, telling it more or less how it is without exposing the warts. As always, the bookies who have us pegged at the bottom four or five have just about got it pegged right. If he can lift us above that level this year then he's steering the ship on the right course.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,631]

Well Trengove is contracted till the end of 2015 so I doubt sheedy will be arround to try.

That makes me feel better.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

Winning is what happens when everything else is in place. It's not something you do per se, it's a result of something you do. You can't just go out and, you know, just ... win. For me, nothing could be better than to hear Neeld say "we're putting everything in place to get the boys to where they need to be", and I'd much rather that than "yeah, we're going to win xx games this year".

There's a big difference between winning, and building a winning culture. There are a few shortcuts to the former, but not the latter, and it's obvious which path the club is taking.

The wins will come. In time.

It's the golden rule of politics is it not? When taking over the job emphasize what a mess you've inherited, thereby giving you more time fix things and look better in the process.

I've been brainwashed. In both these posts I read "taking" as "tanking" before realising my mistake. It's a horrible feeling knowing that one of the long-term impacts of this ongoing saga has been the impact it's had on one's ability to read properly!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Bailey got 3.5 years. At the time of his sacking we had nearly a 50% winning ratio and he still got the A. Did we jump the gun as a reaction to 186? I don't know. I don't care what happens this year, we MUST stick to out guns and give Neeld a 5 year window (at least) to build his side. If he is about 20-25% into that now I would say he is doing OK so far.

[Striker475 696]

Bailey got 3.5 years. At the time of his sacking we had nearly a 50% winning ratio and he still got the A. Did we jump the gun as a reaction to 186? I don't know. I don't care what happens this year, we MUST stick to out guns and give Neeld a 5 year window (at least) to build his side. If he is about 20-25% into that now I would say he is doing OK so far.

Oh I'm happy to give him time, but the bulltish coming across a whole-club level is frustrating. I actually want them to come out and say we are going to do everything we can to try and win every single game. I don't think I ask for much with that.

[Jack Jack 415]

Bailey got 3.5 years. At the time of his sacking we had nearly a 50% winning ratio and he still got the A. Did we jump the gun as a reaction to 186? I don't know. I don't care what happens this year, we MUST stick to out guns and give Neeld a 5 year window (at least) to build his side. If he is about 20-25% into that now I would say he is doing OK so far.

Hindsight tells it was absolutely the right decision. For DB to let the players dictate training is deplorable, let alone the blowout losses we had. The reports of how far behind we were in fitness is further proof of the tail wagging the dog. Bailey was under staffed/funded during his tenure, so it's questionable whether he can be held solely responsible, but it remains that a change was needed.

Oh I'm happy to give him time, but the bulltish coming across a whole-club level is frustrating. I actually want them to come out and say we are going to do everything we can to try and win every single game. I don't think I ask for much with that.

Exactly. The general consensus is that we're not going to win a lot of games this year, so how about talking up the intent of the team. To keep digging deep when we're behind, irrelevant of by how much.

Wins would be great, but how about setting ourselves up for when we do get there. Neeld has set "elite" standards around the club. Does that include giving 4 quarters of 100% effort on the field. Scrapping for every possession and opportunity. I hope that it is just inferred and not another DB scenario where it will just happen.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Oh I'm happy to give him time, but the bulltish coming across a whole-club level is frustrating. I actually want them to come out and say we are going to do everything we can to try and win every single game. I don't think I ask for much with that.

The problem with that is obviously that if we say that, then we come out and get pumped, we hand everybody ammunition to get stuck into us more. We are not far in front of GC and GWS in terms of our development, and the facts of life are that you WILL struggle if you are in that situation. There is no use making a song and dance that purports some other reality.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The problem with that is obviously that if we say that, then we come out and get pumped, we hand everybody ammunition to get stuck into us more.

This is the part I don't agree with, for a start we shouldn't care if people get stuck into us for not performing. Secondly, if it did matter I think people would be more kind if they heard Melbourne set high expectations and not just repeat the same excuses Bailey spat out every week.

[P-man 13,366]

It honestly feels like we've been "young and inexperienced" for going on 7 years now. We are the Peter [censored] Pan of the competition.

I have to admit I really tire of the age excuse being trotted out, and to do so before a ball has been bounced just annoys me. Last year we had the fourth youngest list. Fifth youngest list? Adelaide. They went okay.

Effort counts for a hell of alot in this game, that's part of what makes it so great. Things can turn around completely in the space of one season. It happens year after year. I really want to believe it can be us in 2013, but I've touched that stove too many times now. I'll need to see it.

[praha 11,240]

Bailey was sacked because accountability was non-existent among the playing group. The buck has to stop somewhere and if you don't hold the head coach accountable for the playing group dictating off-field matters, then who is accountable? Where do you draw the line?

Bailey was a good bloke and the team structure was on the right track but he epitomised the way the club has been for the past 50 years: no real grunt, and no capacity to draw a line and say, "this simply isn't good enough."

Neeld has come in and done that now, but at the same time he lowers expectations, which is dangerous because eventually it's going to start sounding like an excuse. When I first start a business I lower expectations because the reality is I won't be making millions out of the box, but perception means everything and I don't go around saying, "Well we're far off making people notice...but we will some day." The rhetoric fit the team well last year when people were bedazzled at how quickly it dropped off, but if you've given the players the pre-season and training you said they needed there needs to be improvement, at least initially. I can foresee a very tough 2nd half of the year but the team simply cannot start as poorly as it did last year, not only for player confidence, but from an off-field perspective too.

A lot is hinging on Neeld's plan and we should expect a few beltings this year but this club needs one game -- just one -- where it sticks its head up and says hello to those it's been looking up to since 2007...and they'll notice.

But at the same time forcing this "lower your expectations" narrative onto fans and the media is going to slap him and the club in the face if it can't improve. I'm not talking about a top-8 finish. I'm talking about not letting teams kick 10-12 goals in a quarter of football, nor getting consistently smashed in possessions and inside-50s.

Neeld is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't: at the end of the day we're all talking about what the club has SAID, because we never have anything to show. The only way it can avoid the scrutiny is to perform. Neeld has done the complete opposite of talking the talk. Hopefully it will wield an opposite outcome to what we're used to.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

It honestly feels like we've been "young and inexperienced" for going on 7 years now. We are the Peter [censored] Pan of the competition.

I have to admit I really tire of the age excuse being trotted out, and to do so before a ball has been bounced just annoys me. Last year we had the fourth youngest list. Fifth youngest list? Adelaide. They went okay.

Effort counts for a hell of alot in this game, that's part of what makes it so great. Things can turn around completely in the space of one season. It happens year after year. I really want to believe it can be us in 2013, but I've touched that stove too many times now. I'll need to see it.

It is not age or though that matters, it is games experience, that is the void Neeld has been trying to fill

[P-man 13,366]

It is not age or though that matters, it is games experience, that is the void Neeld has been trying to fill

Whether you label them as explanations or excuses, both age and experience have been used, often in tandem. Let's not pretend otherwise.

[dworship 3,342]

Demonland needs a 'Black Hat' button.

That needs some "Thinking" about

[rpfc 28,407]

That needs some "Thinking" about

You guys are giving me a De Bono...

[Demon17 5,188]

I heard it

Was far from inspirational.

I got the feeling that 2013 will not be a lot better than last.

Not sure the MFC can have too many more of those years

Wrong. His key message was that "... Neil Craig and Missen have now had a full pre season with a new group and its a journey to balance young body development and injuries..."'

Ä really smart interview and he now has his stamp on the team as with his own staff. It wasn't spin, just telling it like it is.

Get on board for the next few years I say!!! see you on Sunday

[old dee 23,788]

Wrong. His key message was that "... Neil Craig and Missen have now had a full pre season with a new group and its a journey to balance young body development and injuries..."'

Ä really smart interview and he now has his stamp on the team as with his own staff. It wasn't spin, just telling it like it is.

Get on board for the next few years I say!!! see you on Sunday

That's your view

I have a different one

PS I have not been off for 53 years

Edited March 28, 2013 by old dee

[Demon17 5,188]

That's your view

I have a different one

PS I have not been off for 53 years

Good on you - its a free country. Time will tell I guess.

[bing181 9,219]

Things can turn around completely in the space of one season. It happens year after year.

Year after year? You're tipping the Bulldogs and GC for the 8 this year? The clubs who were down the bottom last year are certainly going to be down the list this year as well. Adelaide last year is the exception that proves the rule. Our two captains have played around 50 games each - simply because there is no-one else at the club with more experience/games who's really capable of being a leader. Adelaide have and had the strong, experienced on-field leaders and performers that we just don't. They also had a much better fitness base than us, but that's another story.

No club, whoever they are, where a large part of the list is around or under 50 games, is ever going to dominate anything much over a sustained period. No-one on this board is trembling in their boots because of all the stars at GC or GWS ... we (rightfully in some respects) dismiss them as being "just kids". Yet much of our list is of similar age and experience as ours.

Look at what Neeld said the other day about Dawes and Clark regarding whether they'll play or not - he remarked that they had 6 or 7 solid pre-seasons behind them. Trengove doesn't, this was his third - or second full one. That has an impact, and a big impact, on what happens on the field during matches.

Turning around organisations and cultures Just Takes Time.

[old dee 23,788]

Good on you - its a free country. Time will tell I guess.

And thank god Demon17.

All this started because I said the MN does not inspire me.

Now that does not mean he is not a good coach or that he is not the man for the job.

He just does not turn my wheels.

Does it matter that he does get me going?

Of course not

In the end I am just one person with an opinion that makes no difference to how successful the Dees will be under him as coach.

God I hope we win on Sunday.

[old dee 23,788]

Year after year? You're tipping the Bulldogs and GC for the 8 this year? The clubs who were down the bottom last year are certainly going to be down the list this year as well. Adelaide last year is the exception that proves the rule. Our two captains have played around 50 games each - simply because there is no-one else at the club with more experience/games who's really capable of being a leader. Adelaide have and had the strong, experienced on-field leaders and performers that we just don't. They also had a much better fitness base than us, but that's another story.

No club, whoever they are, where a large part of the list is around or under 50 games, is ever going to dominate anything much over a sustained period. No-one on this board is trembling in their boots because of all the stars at GC or GWS ... we (rightfully in some respects) dismiss them as being "just kids". Yet much of our list is of similar age and experience as ours.

Look at what Neeld said the other day about Dawes and Clark regarding whether they'll play or not - he remarked that they had 6 or 7 solid pre-seasons behind them. Trengove doesn't, this was his third - or second full one. That has an impact, and a big impact, on what happens on the field during matches.

Turning around organisations and cultures Just Takes Time.

I agree with most of what you say Bing

The problem for most supporters is the MFC is six years into that process.

Now you could argue that it only started 1 year ago.

Most people see we have spent six years getting to the point we were at in March 2007.

They / me would like to see some improvement this year.

Port is far from a good team and they will not play finals this year.

We should at worse be able to break even with them on Sunday.

A bad loss will not look good.

IMO we need to win 6 - 7 games in 2013

To show we are not irrelevant again

[Jens Lehmann 75]

Bailey got 3.5 years. At the time of his sacking we had nearly a 50% winning ratio and he still got the A. Did we jump the gun as a reaction to 186? I don't know. I don't care what happens this year, we MUST stick to out guns and give Neeld a 5 year window (at least) to build his side. If he is about 20-25% into that now I would say he is doing OK so far.

DB had nearly a 50% win-loss ratio?

On what planet??