assuming that both Rivers and Moloney go through FA, i would expect a 2nd rounder as compensation. Would be happy to on-trade that for Dawes and swap of our 3rd round picks.

Also wouldn't mind trading the Pies 3rd rounder for Pederson to help hold down a defensive post. Netting us Hogan, Barry, Viney, Dawes, Pederson and leaving us with picks 4 and 20 for mids in the ND.

I think with the addition of Viney and hopefully another gun mid with pick 4, it's less critical to pick another mid with pick 20 now.

I couldnt agree with you more. I think after Clark got injured it made us realize we have no forward line.

We have Viney and pick 4 for our mids.

Now we need some more big body's in the forward line to help develop young players like Watts and Hogen.

I don't want to see what happened to Watts in Hogens first season and have the no1 back man on him. Which slowed down his development.

Plus with a player like Dawes it will take the presser off Clark and free him up a bit instead of getting double teamed every week.

I think Dawes can be a lot better then he was last season.

Couldn't disagree more. We need bucketloads of them.

How many midfielders can you play at once? Our midfield might've been poor, but I think adding two first class players changes the dynamic of it more than you think. It's not as if every single player in our midfield is a spud - I think swapping, say, Moloney for Viney and Magner for Pick 4 (assuming he is ready made), it's already a very different look and I'm not sure how many more 18 year olds you'll squeeze in there. I'm not suggesting we don't need any more midfielders at all, just saying that adding class is more important than flooding the list with young midfielders. Quality over quantity and all that.

We need quality mids.

There is a chance that Pick 20 will deliver that but in no way a certainty.

Pick 4 is a different story all together and I expect a 200 game mid with good skills and toughness.

I think we will try and do it for less, maybe 3rd rounder or something, wait long enough and come back with a compo pick we get for Moloney or Rivers hopefully closer to 30

How many midfielders can you play at once? Our midfield might've been poor, but I think adding two first class players changes the dynamic of it more than you think. It's not as if every single player in our midfield is a spud - I think swapping, say, Moloney for Viney and Magner for Pick 4 (assuming he is ready made), it's already a very different look and I'm not sure how many more 18 year olds you'll squeeze in there. I'm not suggesting we don't need any more midfielders at all, just saying that adding class is more important than flooding the list with young midfielders. Quality over quantity and all that.

Classy young midfielders we can use in bucketloads. You asked how many you can play at once. Lets see, 3 at the bounce, 2 on the wings, 2 on the HFF, maybe 1 on the HBF, 3 on the bench. I make that 11 plus more needed for injuries and loss of form. Have we got say 15 good ones?

I think we will try and do it for less, maybe 3rd rounder or something, wait long enough and come back with a compo pick we get for Moloney or Rivers hopefully closer to 30

Believe it or not JV's pick at 26 may end up in the 30's. Add Goddard Saints pick, Dees, Rivers/Moloney etc.

Believe it or not JV's pick at 26 may end up in the 30's. Add Goddard Saints pick, Dees, Rivers/Moloney etc.

fancy, wouldn't that be just a shame

enough to make od choke on his single malt, but then he has banned himself from this board

Believe it or not JV's pick at 26 may end up in the 30's. Add Goddard Saints pick, Dees, Rivers/Moloney etc.

I think I heard Adrian Anderson say that it can't change, but I stand to be corrected.

I'm in the camp that if we get Pedersen another mid at 20 would be preferable. But for me Trengove is the massive x factor next year. I expect Trengove to rediscover his zip and take a giant leap forward, especially with Viney and Jones taking the heat. If Trengove can start taking his game to the level we all expected then our midfield is on its way.

Our current midfield* stocks

1. Trengove,
   
2. Grimes,
   
3. McKenzie,
   
4. Howe,
   
5. Jones,
   
6. Viney,
   
7. Tapscott,
   
8. Blease,
   
9. Sylvia,
   
10. Jetta,
    
11. Bail,
    
12. Nicholson ®,
    
13. Evans ®,
    
14. Couch,
    
15. Magner,
    
16. Barry
    
17. Watts,
    
18. Gysberts,
    
19. Morton,
    
20. Taggert,
    
21. Tynan,
    
22. Bennell,
    
23. Sheahan,
    
24. Williams
    

* broadest definition of midfielder possible.

Edited October 9, 201213 yr by PaulRB

Please, are you saying that Martin is the best ruckman on our list or have I misread your thread. Dawes would be a massive pick up for us we have mitch clarke and dawes will complement him beautifully. We need 2 big guys infront of goals. Take Hawthorn for instance they now have one big defender but we could have 2 tall solid forwards

I think dawes will be a good pick up say for our pick 20 leaving us with pick 4 what a bloody top position to be in. After so many years of poor draft selections I think they have it absolutely correct this time for us to move forward

So, according to the great Albert Einstein, how will continuing to be a miserable pessimist help us to be successful and you to be happy?

"Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it." - Niels Bohr

I'm glad you agree with my thinking that things need to change.

I think I heard Adrian Anderson say that it can't change, but I stand to be corrected.

I meant that when you add more FA compo picks in, pick 26, still the same pick we use for JV, will slide and he becomes even cheaper.

If Wellingham is worth 17, then Dawes cannot be worth 20. Wellingham is clearly a superior player to Dawes.

Nasher if Hogan becomes what we hope, then we will have him and Mitch Clark in the key forward posts, meaning Dawes won't get a game.

I cannot justify trading pick 20 in a strong draft for a stop-gap measure who we would hope doesn't make our best side in two years' time.

You cannot have enough quality mids and this is what we should target with 4 and 20. Previous drafts suggest that it is entirely possible to pick up A grade mids at pick 20.

If Wellingham is worth 17, then Dawes cannot be worth 20. Wellingham is clearly a superior player to Dawes.

Nasher if Hogan becomes what we hope, then we will have him and Mitch Clark in the key forward posts, meaning Dawes won't get a game.

I cannot justify trading pick 20 in a strong draft for a stop-gap measure who we would hope doesn't make our best side in two years' time.

You cannot have enough quality mids and this is what we should target with 4 and 20. Previous drafts suggest that it is entirely possible to pick up A grade mids at pick 20.

Yes but Wellingham was out of contract ... and was a chance to leave for nothing. Dawes still has 2 more years left so Collingwood have the upper hand and can accept what they want.

I'm glad you agree with my thinking that things need to change.

Nice work, Sandra.

I think Dawes gives us somthing that probably only Jamar on our list could, which is a strong body who could wrestle under a high ball with the likes of Glass etc.

However i Feel that Jack Fitzpatrick isnt far away from coming of age and holding down a spot

Nasher if Hogan becomes what we hope, then we will have him and Mitch Clark in the key forward posts, meaning Dawes won't get a game.

From the top of my head there are several clubs that play with three talls up front... or at their peak had three strong forwards.

West Coast played with Kennedy, Lynch and Darling with Cox/Niknat in the pocket resting.

North played the second half of the season with Hansen, Tarrant and Petrie.

Hawks play with Franklin, Roughhead, Gunston with Hale interchanging with Roughhead.

Brisbane play Merrett, Brown and Cornelius.  (used to play Lynch, Brown and Bradshaw).

Collingwood were best when they had L Brown, Dawes and Cloke

Three talls isn't a problem. It's having a structure that works for your team that's important.

Collingwood dont have the upper hand unless w e give it to them. We don't NEED him, it'd just be nice. We can walk away.

Yes but Wellingham was out of contract ... and was a chance to leave for nothing. Dawes still has 2 more years left so Collingwood have the upper hand and can accept what they want.

Yes but to offset that is the fact that Collingwood needs to get rid of its contractual obligations to Dawes in order to continue to recruit and fit players under its salary cap. Also they can only accept what they're offered not what they want.

I think that our forward line needs more attention as things stand. 2013 cannot be like 2012 so factoring Hogan into this is irrelevant. We have added Viney, Byrnes and possibly Ray to the midfield, along with most likely a quality mid with pick 4. This will compliment the further development of Jones, Trengove, Grimes, McKenzie etc and a fully fit Sylvia.

However, our forward line has lost Jurrah and Green. Clark is the hope, but there is no guarentee that he will fully recover from his injury. Howe is being pushed up the ground. So this leaves us at the moment with Fitzpatrick, Williams, Sheahan and Cook. Fitzy is the only one for mine that would come close to being ready in 2013. Dawes or Pederson for the right price is a must.

Dont write off Garland guys. I think he can be a consistent forward with proper delivery and some small forwards helping to hold it in their.

Dont write off Garland guys. I think he can be a consistent forward with proper delivery and some small forwards helping to hold it in their.

He's not big or smart enough.

Pity we don't have a crystal ball to see just where Fitz and Williams will get to this year. Maybe the inner sanctum have a better idea where these two are headed, though there is always some guesswork. If they are confident that at least one will progress then Dawes may not be as essential as if for instance they had already planned on delisting one or both (don't know their contract status).

Just some thoughts.

Yes but Wellingham was out of contract ... and was a chance to leave for nothing.

Very unlikely. His only option to do this would have been to put himself in the draft and having no control over where he went. Also he had his heart set onn getting to WA, which could only realistically happen if Collingwood traded. The Maggies had the whip hand not wellingham. They did all right out of it too.