Lucas Cook, Jack Fitzpatrick etc

[jnrmac 20,090]

No it was a small group, but I asked him directly, if that makes sense, the group I was with all have very good 'bulldust detectors",so what we got was an answer, I have asked a couple of similar questions to Jade Rawlings, Leigh Brown and Mark Neeld on previous occasions and you get the same consistent answer.....I for one along with Nathan Jones believe we have the right people in the right jobs.....what they are doing is for the long term....it may be painful, it requires patience but it will work......developing Key Position Players being one part of it

Jade Rawlings is as straight as they come. Have seen him answer questions on Morton with answers like "the playing group didn't trust him and he had to re-build that trust" Jade is not a guy who gilds the lily. If that 's what he said I believe him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Ive no idea whether Cookie will indeed turn out to be a gem but hes still a relative apprentice in all this. I doubt the FD even look to using him in anything remotely looking like a regular seniors role til 2014. In the mean time he'll learn his craft, develop his body and play the games he's afforded.

At 2 years in the system he is not even close to getting a game in an injury belted team. He struggles at VFL level. He does not show basic commitment to a contest.

If 2014 is the date you believe he should be a regular player then he has to improved bucket loads. And its not just putting on a few kilos either.

And if the FD did have a plan that was 4 years before making a contribution then he better turn out to be as good as Wayne Carey because its a terrible waste of a first round pick.

Its more than reasonable to have expected Cook to be pushing for an AFL spot in his 2nd year. Its also reasonable to expect that he would be showing the traits of a talented footballer than drew him as pick 12 in the draft. He isnt showing that at all.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Had a look at the mark not too bad came in from the side, showed good judgement but seemed surprised when he got it.

Look he's pick 20 and I want all our players to be good, but you have to be exceptional to make it in AFL and particularly in a key position and I just can't see it; he needs a big dose of confidence, maybe he reads here and we should be pumping him up? Reading that his parents are both tall and lean would indicate that his genetics are more towards being skinny than well muscled but who knows?

Had a look at the mark not too bad came in from the side, showed good judgement but seemed surprised when he got it.

Look he's pick 20 and I want all our players to be good, but you have to be exceptional to make it in AFL and particularly in a key position and I just can't see it; he needs a big dose of confidence, maybe he reads here and we should be pumping him up? Reading that his parents are both tall and lean would indicate that his genetics are more towards being skinny than well muscled but who knows?

Pick 12

[jnrmac 20,090]

There's a reason Cook went at pick 12. He was AA CHF. He can play, can kick, can mark,. Doesn't have the body. Can't say about the work ethic but that is the factor that determines whether they make it or not.

[Range Rover 1,935]

There's a reason Cook went at pick 12. He was AA CHF. He can play, can kick, can mark,. Doesn't have the body. Can't say about the work ethic but that is the factor that determines whether they make it or not.

Most mock drafts back in 2010 had him going outside the top 20. Closer to 30 in fact.

Given that he has not fired a shot in a lowly Melbourne senior side in his first two years at the club, I think it's fair to say he has been a luxury long-term project player that the MFC could ill-afford at the time.

We had more than enough skinny boys on the list.

[old dee 23,792]

Most mock drafts back in 2010 had him going outside the top 20. Closer to 30 in fact.

Given that he has not fired a shot in a lowly Melbourne senior side in his first two years at the club, I think it's fair to say he has been a luxury long-term project player that the MFC could ill-afford at the time.

We had more than enough skinny boys on the list.

I reckon you have covered the situation perfectly RR

I think we shot ourselves in the foot with perfect precision.

[DemonWA 3,934]

I reckon you have covered the situation perfectly RR

I think we shot ourselves in the foot with perfect precision.

Its not Cook's fault we picekd him at 12. But i believe we need to learn that the u18 carnival is not the be all and end all when it comes to the draft. AA CHF from the carnival doesnt mean a great deal if he doesnt play a game in 2 years.

[old dee 23,792]

Lets deal with some facts old dee. It is plain rubbish.

Over the past five years, its well publicised that MFC were in the market for senior players (eg Had prior AFL experience at another Club). We went for Judd, Ball, R Warnock, Prismall (Dodged that) and Hislop (Dodged that too). There may have been others that we sought that renewed contracts with their club. We did, regrettably recruit John Meesen for pick 37(?) in 2007.

There are three important issues that need to be addressed here.

Firstly, MFC have been an on field and off field basket case. We have not been and do not provide an enticing story to a promising young player or seasoned star seeking to cap their careers with another opportunity elsewhere.

Secondly, have a look at those players traded by clubs and work out which of those players would have come to MEL instead of their chosen club. What would MFC offer them above and beyond to have change their choice at the time? And when you look at what has happened in the past 5 years there is good reason why they did not come to MFC.

Thirdly, there is not many on that trade list that I would have taken. Its easy to say plug the gap with senior players. But there is risk inherent that the NQRs from other sides will slot into become the NQRs in your side. Carlton under Pagan did it and ended up with ordinary fringe players. Gold Coast are finding that now with Brennan and Fraser.

You are right to bring up selection. We have overall selected badly in 2000 to 2006. That what has caused our senior player and leadership vacuum post Neitz.

And also in the final Cameron year (2007) and Prendergast period) we may have some questionable selection.

But in no way does it invalidate the policy that rightly taken up given the situation that was upon MFC about 5 years. And if we got a Cotchin, Martin or a Bennell you would not be complaining (Well maybe...).

And if selection of younger players is your beef then how the hell would we do the selection of mature players better??? FWIW, Mitch Clark is the only good trade we have done in the past 10 years. Holland was a bare pass. PJ, Pickett and Meesen were fails.

Thanks for the softer tone RR really appreciate that

[Hannibal 5,814]

KPPs take time but no-one seems to be able to grasp that.

So you can't have an opinion on what you've seen first hand ? Do you think every poster that has strong question marks over Cook doesn't "grasp" the fact that KPPs take time ? A young tall can be young and not much good. They're not all great prospects just because they're young and under-developed.

I've seen him live a number of times now, including against cellar dwellars Frankston, and the guy couldn't be more underwhelming. He's slow, there's not an aggressive bone in his body, he didn't work hard, and didn't read the play well. He's an OK mark, a good kick, he supposedly has excellent endurance, he's a good decision maker (when he gets it) but not much more. He was expected to go in the 25-35 range in the AFL's own phantom draft (which now seems generous) but he's another Barry Prendergast "special" at 12.

The guy should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[old dee 23,792]

Its not Cook's fault we picekd him at 12. But i believe we need to learn that the u18 carnival is not the be all and end all when it comes to the draft. AA CHF from the carnival doesnt mean a great deal if he doesnt play a game in 2 years.

I have never said it was DemonWA.

He is now coming from a long way back.

To justify the 12 pick the MFC used he is going to want to improve substantially in 2013

[rpfc 28,449]

What exactly is 'plain rubbish'?

Is it plain pieces of paper?

Because that stuff is recyclable...

[Hannibal 5,814]

What exactly is 'plain rubbish'?

Is it plain pieces of paper?

Because that stuff is recyclable...

"Plain" because it's patently obvious to most and "rubbish" because it's crap.

Hope that helps.

And if you're still unsure ask Binman.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Redleg 40,926]

So you can't have an opinion on what you've seen first hand ? Do you think every poster that has strong question marks over Cook doesn't "grasp" the fact that KPPs take time ? A young tall can be young and not much good. They're not all great prospects just because they're young and under-developed.

I've seen him live a number of times now, including against cellar dwellars Frankston, and the guy couldn't be more underwhelming. He's slow, there's not an aggressive bone in his body, he didn't work hard, and didn't read the play well. He's an OK mark, a good kick, he supposedly has excellent endurance, he's a good decision maker (when he gets it) but not much more. He was expected to go in the 25-35 range in the AFL's own phantom draft (which now seems generous) but he's another Barry Prendergast "special" at 12.

The guy should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

I presume you mean Barry and not Lucas.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Given that he has not fired a shot in a lowly Melbourne senior side in his first two years at the club, I think it's fair to say he has been a luxury long-term project player that the MFC could ill-afford at the time.

We had more than enough skinny boys on the list.

Skinny boys is not the issue. I have no problem with a project player provided that there is the talent there. But he should have shown more in 2 years so far.

Ben Hur sums him up very well here:

I've seen him live a number of times now, including against cellar dwellars Frankston, and the guy couldn't be more underwhelming. He's slow, there's not an aggressive bone in his body, he didn't work hard, and didn't read the play well. He's an OK mark, a good kick, he supposedly has excellent endurance, he's a good decision maker (when he gets it) but not much more.

If he is on the list next year I would expect he will need to be a cracker of a player to justify the faith. A 1st rnd pick in their 3rd season should be having some impact on AFL games.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I presume you mean Barry and not Lucas.

Would it matter ?

[Roost It 1,434]

Rather than prolong the pain let's just delist him and reload for next year. I'm betting the club could pick up a player in the top 80 that has as much chance of becoming a player as Cook.

Jack Darling says Hi Melbourne you suckers!!

[binman 42,991]

It is a ridiculous argument now whether we should have got him at 12 (goodbye darling). It's history. Cooky's our boy and part of the club so lets embrace him. Clubs with strong cultures (at any level and any sport) support and nurture their players, not denigrate and cast out. We chose him not the other way 'round.

Cook (and Fitzpatrick for that matter) will provide Neeld and his coaching team a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate their abilty to develop young players.

Edited August 8, 2012 by binman

[Theo 272]

I really hope Cook makes it but I don't think he has the grunt, that steely resolve, the aggression, the speed and a big enough tank needed for AFL at this stage. I noticed that he really struggled at pre-season particularly in the running drills. Not to say he can't improve in these areas.

Although not really relevant, he is the only player selected in the top 20 of the 2010 draft not to have played a game. He and Jed Lamb from Sydney are the only players not to have played a game in the first 30 players selected.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Skinny boys is not the issue. I have no problem with a project player provided that there is the talent there. But he should have shown more in 2 years so far.

Many would have preferred a talented, ready made forward with strength and aggression at that pick if there was one available.

Oh wait ...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Only few were audible back then. Hindsight really is a wonderful asset though.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

I doubt Cook will be considered for delisting with Green retiring. I'm sure Neeld doesn't plan of playing Rivers and Garland forward forever

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As others have pointed out Cook is not ready to replace Green. i cant see Green fitting into the fwd line below.

Fwd line: Clark, Small fwd, Sylvia, Watts, Howe, Jurrah, Rivers/Garland

[Range Rover 1,935]

Only few were audible back then. Hindsight really is a wonderful asset though.

Not as good as foresight, though

[Bossdog 2,002]

No, they played him for the most part in the senior team, not in the VFL. He learn't his craft with the big boys.

Played 9 games....12 goals ...For info

[thaipantsman 180]

I am not posting as regular because I am getting rather bored with the negativity and the constant hijacking of threads by a minority

But back on topic

I had the opportunity on Sunday to ask Josh Mahoney a direct question to which he gave me a direct answer, which I am sure he won't mind me quoting re Lucas Cook and Jack Fitzpatrick

I will have to paraphrase a bit because memory not the same as it used to be

I asked "with the rumour we are chasing Travis Cloke, does that mean we don't think Cook and Fitzpatrick will make it"

He answered "don't believe everything you read about Cloke, but saying that young players need time to develop, especially key position, at least two or three years, and the Club can't afford to stay at the bottom for that time, so there is a need to try and recruit ready to go players, whilst the younger ones develop"

Not making this up are we SAty? Inner sanctum hey? Gee you must be important