On the Couch - Brock talks about 'tanking'

[old dee 23,791]

Meanwhile ... the supporters suffer.

Whats new RR

I have a long memory of that pain over almost 50 years.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Perhaps the supporters should take control of their club. We pay the money we should get a lot

more say in what goes on.

You are quite free to get a ticket together and challenge the board at the next election.....If you so desire....

[Range Rover 1,935]

Watch this ...

http://www.foxsports...fl/on-the-couch

Gerard Healy ... "Surely there has to be a response to the Demons' situation now from headquarters".

Mike Sheahan says he is ... "Confused frustrated and almost angry about what is happening at Melbourne".

Paul Roos says ... "They are almost an irrelevant football team now". "They're still struggling because of the (tanking) culture they set up then".

How about Sheahan's comment at the end that this weekend's game against the Gold Coast is "Melbourne's biggest since they were playing finals", to which Gerard then says "yes heaven help the Demons if they do go down to the Gold Coast."

Huh? Could you get any more hyperbolic than that for an irrelevant (to use Roosy's word) round 18 game in the first year of a coach's contract?

And how about Andy Demetriou coming out today saying that if "if you adopt a mentality that somehow is there to manufacture an outcome that is going to get you a top pick and that's going to solve all your problems, then you are delusional and stupid." ''You are nurturing a culture of losing, which takes a long time to remove. It costs people their livelihoods, their reputations, and it costs the club financially. It's completely stupid.''

http://www.theage.co...0802-23igl.html

Wowee. Very, very, very pointed comments. Quite in sync with the boys On The Couch, too.

Look out Schwabby.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Range Rover

[Hannibal 5,814]

Watch this ...

http://www.foxsports...fl/on-the-couch

Gerard Healy ... "Surely there has to be a response to the Demons' situation now from headquarters".

Mike Sheahan says he is ... "Confused frustrated and almost angry about what is happening at Melbourne".

Paul Roos says ... "They are almost an irrelevant football team now". "They're still struggling because of the (tanking) culture they set up then".

How about Sheahan's comment at the end that this weekend's game against the Gold Coast is "Melbourne's biggest since they were playing finals", to which Gerard then says "yes heaven help the Demons if they do go down to the Gold Coast."

Huh? Could you get any more hyperbolic than that for an irrelevant (to use Roosy's word) round 18 game in the first year of a coach's contract?

And how about Andy Demetriou coming out today saying that if "if you adopt a mentality that somehow is there to manufacture an outcome that is going to get you a top pick and that's going to solve all your problems, then you are delusional and stupid." ''You are nurturing a culture of losing, which takes a long time to remove. It costs people their livelihoods, their reputations, and it costs the club financially. It's completely stupid.''

http://www.theage.co...0802-23igl.html

Wowee. Very, very, very pointed comments. Quite in sync with the boys On The Couch, too.

Look out Schwabby.

You're jumping at shadows.

[Range Rover 1,935]

You're jumping at shadows.

lol Okay.

[rpfc 28,430]

lol Okay.

I think you are bringing together two seperate issues.

The OTC boys want to create some news, the AFL has its 'head in the sand' apparently and we are the perfect patsy to bring this back up again.

Schwab has his detractors that want to see him go but AFL HQ I am not sure would be one of those.

AD is right that 'tankers should go' as he has a very narrow view of what constitutes 'tanking' as I have said (and said, and said... my apologies), and he is also right that draft picks in and of themselves are not a panacea to our woes - perhaps our bad culture became pathetic in 2009 due to our practices? I don't think that can be proven, but it certainly can be argued.

So I think that is the point that AD is making.

But you are right in that there are those that want to see the back of Schwab, I just don't think they organised with Healy and Sheahan and I don't think AFL HQ has the same opinion of Schwab.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I think you are bringing together two seperate issues.

The OTC boys want to create some news, the AFL has its 'head in the sand' apparently and we are the perfect patsy to bring this back up again.

Schwab has his detractors that want to see him go but AFL HQ I am not sure would be one of those.

AD is right that 'tankers should go' as he has a very narrow view of what constitutes 'tanking' as I have said (and said, and said... my apologies), and he is also right that draft picks in and of themselves are not a panacea to our woes - perhaps our bad culture became pathetic in 2009 due to our practices? I don't think that can be proven, but it certainly can be argued.

So I think that is the point that AD is making.

But you are right in that there are those that want to see the back of Schwab, I just don't think they organised with Healy and Sheahan and I don't think AFL HQ has the same opinion of Schwab.

I think it goes beyond the OTC boys wanting to create some news. They appear genuinely peeved with what is going on down at Melbourne. Their disgust is quite evident.

I'd like to know what Greg Healy thinks of it all.

[rpfc 28,430]

I think it goes beyond the OTC boys wanting to create some news. They appear genuinely peeved with what is going on down at Melbourne. Their disgust is quite evident.

I'd like to know what Greg Healy thinks of it all.

Their disgust is shared across the league...

It's either that or dismissive apathy for an irrelevant club.

Easy targets get hit, and we are getting cut down.

Hope Rd 1, 2013 brings some resolve and a message to the rest of the AFL.

Problem is, the only bloke I can see doing anything of the sort will be 18 and playing his first game.

Edit: Numbers 2 and 11 will be with the kid too.

Edited August 3, 2012 by rpfc

[Redleg 40,925]

Perhaps the supporters should take control of their club. We pay the money we should get a lot

more say in what goes on.

You already do if you are a member. You get to stand for election to the Board or vote who gets on, if there is an election.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Paul Roos is disgusted because his team got flogged by a record margin by Melbourne when he was still coaching.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

I think you are bringing together two seperate issues.

The OTC boys want to create some news, the AFL has its 'head in the sand' apparently and we are the perfect patsy to bring this back up again.

Schwab has his detractors that want to see him go but AFL HQ I am not sure would be one of those.

AD is right that 'tankers should go' as he has a very narrow view of what constitutes 'tanking' as I have said (and said, and said... my apologies), and he is also right that draft picks in and of themselves are not a panacea to our woes - perhaps our bad culture became pathetic in 2009 due to our practices? I don't think that can be proven, but it certainly can be argued.

So I think that is the point that AD is making.

But you are right in that there are those that want to see the back of Schwab, I just don't think they organised with Healy and Sheahan and I don't think AFL HQ has the same opinion of Schwab.

How come we never hear your opinion on Schwab WW? Most unlike you for one who has a strong opinion on everything and everyone. Acknowledging he has detractors is as far as you ever dare go. Always strangely silent on such a controversial figure who may or may not be responsible for all our current ills. Why dont you tell us all the good things he has done and how much he is loved and respected by all the players.

Edited August 3, 2012 by america de cali

[rjay 24,928]

I've read "Longsufferings" and other posts that insinuate conspiracy theories. Am I the only one that is just taking these circumstances on face value ? McLean kicks the winning goal for Carlton in a highly publicized game and gets invited onto OTC. Naturally his time at Melbourne is discussed, as well as his decision to leave - he was a top 5 draft pick afterall - and then he clumsily drops Melbourne in it.

I think people are reading far too much into the circumstances.

Ben, I don't go with a lot of the theories on here about a Carlton, Collingwood or AFL set up but I do think Brock was on the show to talk about tanking. He is just not a big enough name for this show otherwise, goal kicker or not. Either he or his management let it be known there was a good story in interviewing Brock, just ask him about Melbourne.

[Redleg 40,925]

The reality of all this "tanking" talk is simply that unless a coach admits that he directed players to lose a game, or a player admits that he was directed to play poorly by a club official, there is no evidence of "tanking". That of itself would have to lead to that coach and maybe the player being banned for life. No one to date has reached that level. The best we have is suspicion, at unusual coaching selections or moves. That is so far from proving "tanking" as to be laughable.

Unusual coaching selections and moves have been part of football since it started, especially involving teams that are out of the finals race. Sheedy even dropped the whole forward line two weeks ago and brought in a bunch of first gamers. Was he trying to win or develop his list? Freo dropped 12 players against the Hawks in Tassie when they were due to play them again the next week in a final in Perth. For the final the 12 came back in and they won. Did freo therefore tank that last game?

How many clubs and games would need to be thoroughly examined if there is action taken against the Dees? I just hope no Dees officials are interviewed because that means it never even got to first base.

Would this be the question asked of McLean by the AFL-" did any MFC official tell you to play below your best". Did you hear any MFC official ask that of any other player? If the answers are "no", how can it go further if the best answer that can be given is " I thought some of our moves were strange".

Edited August 3, 2012 by Redleg

[DemonWA 3,934]

Watch this ...

Look out Schwabby.

Range Rover take a few days away from this site, your borderline hysterical lately!

If anything Demetrious comments reinforced that we weren’t tanking, because he doesnt believe “"experimention or, list management, whatever you want to call it” is tanking. I think he defines tanking as deliberately trying to loose a game, which we didnt do. We were aherad againt Richmond until after the siren? We were managing our list for future years. We didn’t have the mentality that we wanted to loose the games, we put more emphasis on playing the kids and seeing what our players have got when played in other positions because we understood that success was a few years away.

[rpfc 28,430]

How come we never hear your opinion on Schwab WW? Most unlike you for one who has a strong opinion on everything and everyone. Acknowledging he has detractors is as far as you ever dare go. Always strangely silent on such a controversial figure who may or may not be responsible for all our current ills. Why dont you tell us all the good things he has done and how much he is loved and respected by all the players.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28822-kudos-to-cameron-schwab/

Why don't you bump this thread?

Should give you about as much ammunition as you usually have...

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

http://demonland.com...cameron-schwab/

Why don't you bump this thread?

Should give you about as much ammunition as you usually have...

Only one thread and nothing recent to update? Not up to your usual productivity. I suggest all other posters should have a look in case they don't know where you stand.

Edited August 3, 2012 by america de cali

[rpfc 28,430]

Only one thread and nothing recent to update? Not up to your usual productivity. I suggest all other posters should have a look in case they don't know where you stand.

The people that matter on here know where I stand on Schwab.

It's nuanced so don't feel bad if you can't comprehend.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Paul Roos is disgusted because his team got flogged by a record margin by Melbourne when he was still coaching.

More likely that was the day Roos was tanking

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

The people that matter on here know where I stand on Schwab.

It's nuanced so don't feel bad if you can't comprehend.

Not like you to speak in nuances and holding back your forthright opinions. Do you have something to lose?

[old55 23,573]

Paul Roos is disgusted because his team got flogged by a record margin by Melbourne when he was still coaching.

Roos is anti-Melbourne because our (previous?) draft driven list management approach is the opposite of his "money-ball" approach.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Roos is anti-Melbourne because our (previous?) draft driven list management approach is the opposite of his "money-ball" approach.

I thought it was because we showed no interest in his best mate Rossy despite the copious amounts of hints Roos kept dropping.

[The Reverend 1,736]

Watch this ...

http://www.foxsports...fl/on-the-couch

Gerard Healy ... "Surely there has to be a response to the Demons' situation now from headquarters".

Mike Sheahan says he is ... "Confused frustrated and almost angry about what is happening at Melbourne".

Paul Roos says ... "They are almost an irrelevant football team now". "They're still struggling because of the (tanking) culture they set up then".

How about Sheahan's comment at the end that this weekend's game against the Gold Coast is "Melbourne's biggest since they were playing finals", to which Gerard then says "yes heaven help the Demons if they do go down to the Gold Coast."

Huh? Could you get any more hyperbolic than that for an irrelevant (to use Roosy's word) round 18 game in the first year of a coach's contract?

And how about Andy Demetriou coming out today saying that if "if you adopt a mentality that somehow is there to manufacture an outcome that is going to get you a top pick and that's going to solve all your problems, then you are delusional and stupid." ''You are nurturing a culture of losing, which takes a long time to remove. It costs people their livelihoods, their reputations, and it costs the club financially. It's completely stupid.''

http://www.theage.co...0802-23igl.html

Wowee. Very, very, very pointed comments. Quite in sync with the boys On The Couch, too.

Look out Schwabby.

When you watch that and hear Paul Roos talk about irrelevance, you can only wonder at the irrelevance of the three on the couch. They present opinion but give it the appearance of fact. They suggested that Jake Spencer has never made an effort like the chase down against Notth. Remind me again, how many games has Spencer played in his career? Oh, that's right, 12 games since Round One, 2009. WTF? These guys are a joke.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Crawf52

[Redleg 40,925]

Brett Ratten on AFL Access said he thought there was nothing in what Brock said to the AFL. Believed it would all go away. Defended Melbourne saying they were into development as were all sides who missed the finals. Leigh Matthews said some of the moves against Tigers looked funny, but Ratten said they weren't as he had seen them before even against Carlton and other clubs tried players in many positions as well. He agreed with Matthews that no one has ever been told not to do their best on the field. Also said he believed there was no smoking gun.

[rpfc 28,430]

Not like you to speak in nuances and holding back your forthright opinions. Do you have something to lose?

lol

What are you talking about?

It's true.

I am a powerbroker of the MFC. A Chief Lord of the Cybernetic Demonverse.

rpfc is a codename, an entity of power and knowledge that assumes many forms.

My true mission is the sanctity of the Schwab-McLardy-Cthulhu Nexus!!

For in the end. All that matters is...a decent $80k desk.

Sh!t ain't black and white - live a little, you find that out.

[Chook 15,013]

What about Paul Roos who at least one commentator heard screaming to Leo Barry (I think) "do NOT kick a goal" in the NAB Cup one year? Surely that's tanking, even if the supposed "benefits" of tanking in the NAB Cup are much lower than in the regular season.

If Melbourne has done it, then the following clubs have also done it:

Carlton

Collingwood

Fremantle (thanks Redleg)

Hawthorn

Melbourne

Sydney

West Coast

Feel free to add to the list.