"Give me players that can kick..."

[bandicoot 1,395]

Great article in the herald sun regarding kicking accuracy:

"WHEN West Coast was wallowing at the tail end of the AFL ladder only two years ago, embattled coach John Worsfold made a decision that played a key role in the club's resurrection from also-ran to contender.

Kicking, and in particular, the clean use of the ball, was going to be the club's benchmark. Those good at using the Sherrin were going to be given chances; those who weren't had to get better quickly or make way; and those who were targeted by the club in the national draft had to be proficient with the "pill".

Fast-forward to 2012 and the Eagles loom as a serious chance to win their fourth AFL premiership"

http://www.news.com.au/sport/best-kicks-in-the-afl-revealed/story-fnect155-1226419850156

I presume Melbourne rates fairly low in this "Hit Rate"

We have struggled all year to hit targets and thus control the ball.

I can rattle off almost a dozen names that are dreadful by foot. Not sure if this comes down to skill, fitness or an understanding (lack of) of coaches instruction.

Its time for the football department to make the tough decisions and get rid of those that are below par.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Sad how few MFC players are on that list and those few are generally terrible kicks (Frawley, Garland).

We seem to attract young players recently who have a red hot go (Nico, McDonald, Magner, Bail), but who also have shite disposal and appalling decision making.

Or should I say, no one else picks them up in the draft, hence their cricket score draft pick number.

Time to follow the leading teams and put a high priority on disposal when recruiting, partic in the midfield. Hawks, Eagles, Filth and Cats all have many great disposers of the ball.

[old dee 23,872]

Sad how few MFC players are on that list and those few are generally terrible kicks (Frawley, Garland).

We seem to attract young players recently who have a red hot go (Nico, McDonald, Magner, Bail), but who also have shite disposal and appalling decision making.

Or should I say, no one else picks them up in the draft, hence their cricket score draft pick number.

Time to follow the leading teams and put a high priority on disposal when recruiting, partic in the midfield. Hawks, Eagles, Filth and Cats all have many great disposers of the ball.

It was probably on the same page of the Recruitment manual that said interview Dustin Martin

[The Big Ticket 94]

We used leading teams in '08 did we not? And good users of the footy were Bailey's and BP's priority.

If you look through our first-round picks during their time, all of them can use it well by foot. Lacking however, is the footy IQ and good decision making that prevents them from becoming good players.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

We used leading teams in '08 did we not?

I think he was referring to leading teams in general, not Leading Teams™

[bing181 9,328]

It was probably on the same page of the Recruitment manual that said interview Dustin Martin

... because he's the kind of player that oozes leadership and responsibility, the kind you can build a team around.

[old dee 23,872]

We used leading teams in '08 did we not? And good users of the footy were Bailey's and BP's priority.

If you look through our first-round picks during their time, all of them can use it well by foot. Lacking however, is the footy IQ and good decision making that prevents them from becoming good players.

Seems to me that we are cursed with players who can get the ball but cannot kick eg. Bail and McKenzie

Or players that can kick but don't get the Ball eg. Bennell and Petterd

[old dee 23,872]

... because he's the kind of player that oozes leadership and responsibility, the kind you can build a team around.

I don't care he gets the ball, kicks well and kicks goals

The rest is a management problem.

The Tigers will sort him out, pity it is not us with the problem.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

We may have good kicks who were drafted for that reason but

they lack confidence

game sense

ability to execute under pressure

lack physical development

are poor decision makers

According to the article posted by bandicoot we have one midfielder with a positive Hit ratio Nathan Jones frankly a hiding to nothing is all you can really expect

Edited July 10, 2012 by Diablo Deemon

[Deemon 47]

I think a big part of it is fitness. We're sitting at about 60% of the fitness levels of the top flight teams and that has to impact on everything else. When you're tired you make mistakes and it's the same on the footy field. Once we have the fitness levels up to scratch I think we'll see a vast improvement in our skills, but the trouble is that we're still at least two preseasons away from that.

[old dee 23,872]

I think a big part of it is fitness. We're sitting at about 60% of the fitness levels of the top flight teams and that has to impact on everything else. When you're tired you make mistakes and it's the same on the footy field. Once we have the fitness levels up to scratch I think we'll see a vast improvement in our skills, but the trouble is that we're still at least two preseasons away from that.

Deemon were do you get the 60% figure from?

Unlike last year when we used to fall in a hole in the last quarter I see little evidence of that in 2012.

eg. the last quarter against Richmond it was probably our best quarter.

I think our fitness with most players is ok, there are of course exceptions like Blease who can play for 10 minutes a quarter and then vanishes.

We kick badly from the first bounce, no one is tired at that point

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

I think a big part of it is fitness. We're sitting at about 60% of the fitness levels of the top flight teams and that has to impact on everything else. When you're tired you make mistakes and it's the same on the footy field. Once we have the fitness levels up to scratch I think we'll see a vast improvement in our skills, but the trouble is that we're still at least two preseasons away from that.

Here, here! Thats why you find us still doing Pre-season training 10 rounds into the season!

It's common knowledge that Neeld and Mission were astonished by how poor our fitness levels were in comparison to other clubs and players. This season has been a write off since the word go as we have bad to use it building up fitness to work into 2013 and beyond!

Next year you will see that with fitter bodies comes a huge improvement in skills and gameplay. Mark my words

[Deemon 47]

Deemon were do you get the 60% figure from?

Unlike last year when we used to fall in a hole in the last quarter I see little evidence of that in 2012.

eg. the last quarter against Richmond it was probably our best quarter.

I think our fitness with most players is ok, there are of course exceptions like Blease who can play for 10 minutes a quarter and then vanishes.

We kick badly from the first bounce, no one is tired at that point

Mark Neeld and David Misson have both said that Old Dee. When they looked at our fitness stats at the start of pre season and compared them to the top flight teams they realised how far we were behind. They set the standard last pre season at 60%, this pre season will be 80% and the one after 100%. Any quicker than that and your risk of injury goes through the roof. Maybe instead of tired a better way to discribe it would be fatigued?? I don't know what the answer is but I think as our fitness improves the skills will too, but we obviously need a lot of work in both areas.

[The Big Ticket 94]

I think he was referring to leading teams in general, not Leading Teams™

Ahh yes he was, my bad. Well he would be right then.

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

I thought I would have a go at listing our best and worst kicks, trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I won't list all players just those who go clearly into one of the categories.

GOOD KICKS:

Watts. Best kick in the team on both sides of his body. When he makes a blunder it is usually a real shocker but he is our best

Davey. Smooth, silky and accurate but often gets caught on his right foot. This year though he has used his right foot well on a few occasions. He is not as penetrating as he once was.

Dunn. This bloke is a good kick long or short but makes some decision errors at times. Best long kick in the squad.

Bate. Right up next to Clark for goal kicking ability. Long, penetrating field kick also. Absolutely no right foot.

Clark. Great technique and very reliable, especially considering our poor forward play means he takes most shots for goal from the boundary. Is a great pass when mobile.

Green. Elite kick but no right foot.

Jones. A strong reliable, penetrating kick.

Moloney. A great kick but often bombs away without thinking.

Morton. A really good kick but like Watts makes noticeable shockers that often turn into opposition goals.

Sylvia. A great kick, and one who can kick well at full pace.

POOR KICKS

Bail. On the run he is a horrible kick, at full pace even worse. If he can ever get a full season without injury it might improve but...

Nicholson. Has patches where he uses it well but is a constant butcherer of 25m passes, usually over the head of the lead up player straight into the hands of the opposition player chasing him.

T MacDonald. When switching the play, often misses targets by a big margin. Seems to be OK hitting a leadup player. Frawley was this bad once.

J McDonald. Just misses easy targets, especially short ones. His action looks OK and it spins properly but just goes int the wrong direction.

Bartram. Has improved a lot this year but I still have a sense of the Ben Hollands about Barty, and by this I mean I put my hands over my eyes and say to myself "please handball, please don't kick it!"

Fitzpatrick. Horrible technique - drops the ball with both hands and is very unco.

Spencer. Worst kick on our list, and that is a title no player wants!

Grimes. Has been a whole heap better this year but still misses eeasy targets coming off half-back. Rarely kicks more than 30 metres.

Howe. Set shots are a nightmare for him which is surprising because his field kicking is really good.

Petterd. I reckon Steve Kernahan taught him to kick. Helicopter punts are his kick of choice.

Trengove. His kicking this year has been embarrassing for the poor kid. In 2011 he was one of our better kicks and I do not know what happened.

POTENTIAL

Cook. Great technique and can kick from outside 50. Haven't seen him use his left.

Strauss. He was recruited for his kicking and is displaying it more and more often at Casey.

Tapscott. Also one of the reasons he was recruited. Hasn't shown it much in 2012 but can kick on the run like Beamer. Hope he can produce it.

Jetta. A really good kick at full pace but can't kick 50 metres.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Maldonboy38

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I think he was referring to leading teams in general, not Leading Teams™

Correct. Thanks

[beelzebub 23,383]

Bloody hell ...are we all just catchin gon ?? Been saying thsi for years.. Why the bloody hell dont we have KICKING as a priority skill. ? fmd.. lots of peopel can run..do beeps...do all sorts of ineffectual dramatisations of the game and yet murder the pill. Fat lot of good that does in a game called FOOTball !!

god this is a no brainer and it still managed to escape the attention of our footy dept for years.. go figure !!!

[jurrahcane 70]

I thought I would have a go at listing our best and worst kicks, trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I won't list all players just those who go clearly into one of the categories.

GOOD KICKS:

Watts. Best kick in the team on both sides of his body. When he makes a blunder it is usually a real shocker but he is our best

Davey. Smooth, silky and accurate but often gets caught on his right foot. This year though he has used his right foot well on a few occasions. He is not as penetrating as he once was.

Dunn. This bloke is a good kick long or short but makes some decision errors at times. Best long kick in the squad.

Bate. Right up next to Clark for goal kicking ability. Long, penetrating field kick also. Absolutely no right foot.

Clark. Great technique and very reliable, especially considering our poor forward play means he takes most shots for goal from the boundary. Is a great pass when mobile.

Green. Elite kick but no right foot.

Jones. A strong reliable, penetrating kick.

Moloney. A great kick but often bombs away without thinking.

Morton. A really good kick but like Watts makes noticeable shockers that often turn into opposition goals.

Sylvia. A great kick, and one who can kick well at full pace.

POOR KICKS

Bail. On the run he is a horrible kick, at full pace even worse. If he can ever get a full season without injury it might improve but...

Nicholson. Has patches where he uses it well but is a constant butcherer of 25m passes, usually over the head of the lead up player straight into the hands of the opposition player chasing him.

T MacDonald. When switching the play, often misses targets by a big margin. Seems to be OK hitting a leadup player. Frawley was this bad once.

J McDonald. Just misses easy targets, especially short ones. His action looks OK and it spins properly but just goes int the wrong direction.

Bartram. Has improved a lot this year but I still have a sense of the Ben Hollands about Barty, and by this I mean I put my hands over my eyes and say to myself "please handball, please don't kick it!"

Fitzpatrick. Horrible technique - drops the ball with both hands and is very unco.

Spencer. Worst kick on our list, and that is a title no player wants!

Grimes. Has been a whole heap better this year but still misses eeasy targets coming off half-back. Rarely kicks more than 30 metres.

Howe. Set shots are a nightmare for him which is surprising because his field kicking is really good.

Petterd. I reckon Steve Kernahan taught him to kick. Helicopter punts are his kick of choice.

Trengove. His kicking this year has been embarrassing for the poor kid. In 2011 he was one of our better kicks and I do not know what happened.

POTENTIAL

Cook. Great technique and can kick from outside 50. Haven't seen him use his left.

Strauss. He was recruited for his kicking and is displaying it more and more often at Casey.

Tapscott. Also one of the reasons he was recruited. Hasn't shown it much in 2012 but can kick on the run like Beamer. Hope he can produce it.

Jetta. A really good kick at full pace but can't kick 50 metres.

Too generous on Bate. Can turnover the footy with the bottom group. Jack Watts also turned the ball over 3-4 times agst the Tigers.

Sylvia is by far our best user, short & long, with Jones not far behind.

[wattsjurrahdunne 88]

_{Agree totally with the Subject, however, the fitness thing is a total crock. The fact is Magner, Bail, McKenzie, Bartram Nicholson, both McDonalds, Spencer, Fitzpatrick, Howe and Moloney are poor to extremely poor kicks and this is a pivotal reason why we are a pathetic football team. These guys miss targets in the warm up and in the first quarter, nothing to do with fitness. As someone said, this is the reason why nearly all these guys were drafted between 50 and Rookie status. Why else would nobody be interested in Nicholson? he's a great kid, has great pace and courage, but he can't kick so he gets thru to Rookie. Ditto for just about all of them.}

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Too generous on Bate. Can turnover the footy with the bottom group. Jack Watts also turned the ball over 3-4 times agst the Tigers.

Sylvia is by far our best user, short & long, with Jones not far behind.

Only a couple of years ago Jones used to regularly butcher the ball by foot. He has worked hard to improve that to the extent he is now accurate and clever by foot (usually).

It goes to show that foot skills can be improved with persistence and work.

I agree that fitness helps many players, as skills are usually first to suffer when they are spent.

[Miles from Nowhere 199]

I think that you can add Blease to the good kicks list. Those impossible goals are becoming a bit frequent to be all arrz.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Magner is pretty woeful by foot as well. McKenzie has improved significantly this year

[Hardnut 327]

Great article in the herald sun regarding kicking accuracy:

"WHEN West Coast was wallowing at the tail end of the AFL ladder only two years ago, embattled coach John Worsfold made a decision that played a key role in the club's resurrection from also-ran to contender.

Kicking, and in particular, the clean use of the ball, was going to be the club's benchmark. Those good at using the Sherrin were going to be given chances; those who weren't had to get better quickly or make way; and those who were targeted by the club in the national draft had to be proficient with the "pill".

Fast-forward to 2012 and the Eagles loom as a serious chance to win their fourth AFL premiership"

http://www.news.com....5-1226419850156

I presume Melbourne rates fairly low in this "Hit Rate"

We have struggled all year to hit targets and thus control the ball.

I can rattle off almost a dozen names that are dreadful by foot. Not sure if this comes down to skill, fitness or an understanding (lack of) of coaches instruction.

Its time for the football department to make the tough decisions and get rid of those that are below par.

Glad to see this subject raised in its own thread - well done.

In many posts I have been 'screaming' for skills training by foot and by hand - WC are not the only club to realise the value of skills. Skills can also make up for lack of speed and fitness, though I am not saying these other attributes should be ignored. A simple physics calculation will show that a kicked ball can travel 40 metres in 2 seconds - a player can barely run 20 metres in 2 seconds.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

I thought I would have a go at listing our best and worst kicks, trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I won't list all players just those who go clearly into one of the categories.

GOOD KICKS:

Watts. Best kick in the team on both sides of his body. When he makes a blunder it is usually a real shocker but he is our best

Davey. Smooth, silky and accurate but often gets caught on his right foot. This year though he has used his right foot well on a few occasions. He is not as penetrating as he once was.

Dunn. This bloke is a good kick long or short but makes some decision errors at times. Best long kick in the squad.

Bate. Right up next to Clark for goal kicking ability. Long, penetrating field kick also. Absolutely no right foot.

Clark. Great technique and very reliable, especially considering our poor forward play means he takes most shots for goal from the boundary. Is a great pass when mobile.

Green. Elite kick but no right foot.

Jones. A strong reliable, penetrating kick.

Moloney. A great kick but often bombs away without thinking.

Morton. A really good kick but like Watts makes noticeable shockers that often turn into opposition goals.

Sylvia. A great kick, and one who can kick well at full pace.

POOR KICKS

Bail. On the run he is a horrible kick, at full pace even worse. If he can ever get a full season without injury it might improve but...

Nicholson. Has patches where he uses it well but is a constant butcherer of 25m passes, usually over the head of the lead up player straight into the hands of the opposition player chasing him.

T MacDonald. When switching the play, often misses targets by a big margin. Seems to be OK hitting a leadup player. Frawley was this bad once.

J McDonald. Just misses easy targets, especially short ones. His action looks OK and it spins properly but just goes int the wrong direction.

Bartram. Has improved a lot this year but I still have a sense of the Ben Hollands about Barty, and by this I mean I put my hands over my eyes and say to myself "please handball, please don't kick it!"

Fitzpatrick. Horrible technique - drops the ball with both hands and is very unco.

Spencer. Worst kick on our list, and that is a title no player wants!

Grimes. Has been a whole heap better this year but still misses eeasy targets coming off half-back. Rarely kicks more than 30 metres.

Howe. Set shots are a nightmare for him which is surprising because his field kicking is really good.

Petterd. I reckon Steve Kernahan taught him to kick. Helicopter punts are his kick of choice.

Trengove. His kicking this year has been embarrassing for the poor kid. In 2011 he was one of our better kicks and I do not know what happened.

POTENTIAL

Cook. Great technique and can kick from outside 50. Haven't seen him use his left.

Strauss. He was recruited for his kicking and is displaying it more and more often at Casey.

Tapscott. Also one of the reasons he was recruited. Hasn't shown it much in 2012 but can kick on the run like Beamer. Hope he can produce it.

Jetta. A really good kick at full pace but can't kick 50 metres.

You missed a few there.

Blease is a very good kick, although he hasn't really shown it at the top level yet.

Garland is an odd one. I don't really rate his kicking, but he is our highest rated player according to the stats in the article.

Jetta can kick 50m on the run, although I think he'd struggle with a set shot from that sort of range.

I find it very interesting that the best Melbourne players listed in the article were all defenders given how often our backline is accused of poor disposal (and I maintain that this is the case). Is it a flawed system they are using or are they factoring in elements that mitigate the terrible results we see from our kicking out of defence so often?

[Axis of Bob 11,844]

A simple physics calculation will show that a kicked ball can travel 40 metres in 2 seconds.

A kicked ball could also theoretically travel 1 metres in 2 seconds, or it could travel 10 kilometres in 2 seconds.

Physics is fun!