THE SPIRIT WAS THERE, BUT ...

[Sir Why You Little 34,436]

WYL

I am prepared to agree with you on most things but please dont denounce the saviour .

He will lead us through the valley and into the promised land .

As er, promised .

Amen.

Believe it only when i see it. I do not want to hear anymore warm fuzzy spin from inside the MFC.

4 years of onfield development has been totally wasted and or neglected.

[Vipercrunch 2,804]

FWIW, Jones was pretty good yesterday and has been pretty good all year. His effort cannot not be questioned and I don't remember him making many bad errors/fumbles. Well and truly worthy of the promotion to the leadership group.

[Sir Why You Little 34,436]

You are prepared to write his legacy at the age of 20? Bit premature I would have thought.

I don't like doing it Dr. G. But the signs so far do not look good.

If i am proved wrong i will be smiling do not worry. Trengove should be copping more heat from the press than Watts IMO.

[BarrassHarrass 25]

My 2 cents worth

• In the third 1/4 when we turned it on, we backed our run and handballed to moving targets. Moloney found a lot of it during this period. Also, Tom McDonald was good in this period (the rest of his game was terrible). The key difference was the run to receive. It's been missing. Too often we handball to guys that are flat footed.
  
• We tackled and pressured better than we have for a long time.
  
• Magner has had two off weeks and may have been found out. Needs to have a good one against the 'Aints this week.
  
• Mitch Clark is a dominant player. He earns respect by being a bullocking type player. You cannot question his endevour. I would hate to see the effect of him receiving some decent delivery.
  
• I thought James Frawley lowered his colours. May have beaten his opponent but his general skills and disposal were sub-standard. All good to do the twist and turn in the middle of the ground, but if you get caught and turn it over, you are a liability. (side note: saw Chip at the supermarket in Victoria Street richmond at about 12pm. Doing some shopping. Thought it was odd that he was not at home preparing. I guess they want their day to be as normal as possible.)
  
• Morton was good. I have been a basher, but it was his best game in a long time. He needs to remain in the side.
  
• Davey showed flashes. Still HATES body contact and did not go in at teh contest a number of times. It hurts the side.
  
• Jamar's ruck work is SHITHOUSE at the moment. He jumps too early. Does not hit to advantage and has falling away in the last few weeks
  
• Howe is a gun, not just coz of his marking ability but general field play is good too. Glad we have him.
  
• Watts was good in parts but dropped a crucial mark at a crucial stage of the game. He too often takes two bites at the cherry. Needs to learn how to clunk them one grab. He did take a great mark (contested) on the members wing, punt rd end fifty).
  
• Joel Mac is a tard. Should not be seen in the red and blue again.
  
• Sellar is worth persisting with.
  
• Dunn likes picking fights and niggle but cant actually play. No use keeping hot air on the field any longer.
  
• I tip my hat to Matty Bate. He really had a dip last night. We all know he has limitations but had a red hot crack.
  
• Why oh why do our players seem to have no awareness? We get caught from behind far too much. Clearly not enough talk onfield.
  
• We need to use our picks wisely at the end of the year. We MUST look at mature players. 22-26. The gap is too great. No use loading up on more kids who may or may not take the next step.
  

[daisycutter 28,494]

being funny? do you too feel disgusted that Jack Watts "doesn't care"?

Where does this sort of presumption and disrespect come from?

or have I missed some sarcasm, and you reacted to Buzzy's post the same way I did?

I hope these guys we support really do stay away from Demonland

lighten up robbie, i though Buzzy's post was funny and just added to it

don't worry, JW will be ok but he does need to tighten up on a few aspects e.g. concentration, fitness, aggression

[rpfc 27,448]

Just one other point, I think we are getting a little carried away with Mitch Clark. He has been OK but I don't think he has been fantastic and last night his fall was bad and lucky he is OK but he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. IMO he should have protected James Sellar instead of flying for the mark, I've seen a coule of times when Mitch should have put the ball to the top of the square but he hasn't and tried to kick the impossible. We all smash Jack Watts for his contested marking this year Jack has taken 7 contested Marks, Mitch has only taken 4.

Don't get me wrong Mitch is a good pick up but I don't think he has been as great as most are posting.

I saw it differently. I saw Sellar sit in Clark's space and sit, and sit, and sit.

Clark is a leading forward. If you are 25m in front of him, then your job is to get out of the space you are currently in. For Clark's goal, Sellar was again in his space.

Clark is slowly learning how to play as a forward, Sellar has no idea whatsoever.

I understand the idea to 'protect' Sellar. But he was not by himself, he brought to bear a one-on-one contest in front of our FF leading out.

That is amateur hour.

[drdrake 3,037]

I saw it differently. I saw Sellar sit in Clark's space and sit, and sit, and sit.

Clark is a leading forward. If you are 25m in front of him, then your job is to get out of the space you are currently in. For Clark's goal, Sellar was again in his space.

Clark is slowly learning how to play as a forward, Sellar has no idea whatsoever.

I understand the idea to 'protect' Sellar. But he was not by himself, he brought to bear a one-on-one contest in front of our FF leading out.

That is amateur hour.

Sellar had every right to be there on the boundary line 45m out. Don't forget the hole pre-season Sellar has been training with our backs, he wasn't good but in this instance he had good position, IMO Mitch had no chance marking the footy. To me Mitch will be a good pick up but he has to learn that he doesn't have to run and crash every contest, if he continues to do this he will spend more time either injured himself or injuring others.

One thing I do agree this goes accross the team they don't know how to create space for each other, I have posted this a few times over the past 4 weeks we play like under 9 footballers everyone just runs to the footy, if we don't win the footy we have all our players flat footed around where the footy was. We have to learn only one player can win the footy others can assist through blokes and sheppards(which we don't do) but we need to maintain players away from the footy for when it comes out. All the good teams have a get out player usually 5m away on the defensive side of the contest, we never have this

[QueenC 74]

Morton's handball wasn't perfect, but I can forgive a skill error.

How many are we going to be able to forgive. And for how long do we need to keep forgiving them?

I understand what you're saying Jose, mistakes do happen, but the sheer volume of skill errors is what is costing us.

Not to mention the simplicity of some of the plays that are being botched, with both Morton and Moloney being guilty here.

And the cold hard reality is that at some some point they really do become unforgivable......

[dee-luded 2,958]

I think a cigarette lighter to the testicles would do the trick nicely?

LoL OMG...

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

One thing I do agree this goes accross the team they don't know how to create space for each other, I have posted this a few times over the past 4 weeks we play like under 9 footballers everyone just runs to the footy, if we don't win the footy we have all our players flat footed around where the footy was. We have to learn only one player can win the footy others can assist through blokes and sheppards(which we don't do) but we need to maintain players away from the footy for when it comes out. All the good teams have a get out player usually 5m away on the defensive side of the contest, we never have this

We have the same problem with creating space in our forward line. Too many times everyone goes to the same spot or leads to the same spot. Nobody makes dummy/decoy leads to open it up and drag their opponent away. Rarely do we have someone sitting back in the square keeping there opponent away.

At one state in the third we had a free kick on the HFF Southern Stand side/Punt Road End. There were about 3 players (all with opponents) about 10 metres in front of the player with the ball all leading in a straight line towards goals. Combined with this we had about 3 players (all with opponents) deep in the forward line all leading in direct lines to the player with the footy. The result was a giant clusterf*** where everyone ran from opposing directions to the same spot crowding each others space and making it the simplest job in the world for the Dogs players to kill the contest. It's just dumb football.

[rpfc 27,448]

Sellar had every right to be there on the boundary line 45m out. Don't forget the hole pre-season Sellar has been training with our backs, he wasn't good but in this instance he had good position, IMO Mitch had no chance marking the footy. To me Mitch will be a good pick up but he has to learn that he doesn't have to run and crash every contest, if he continues to do this he will spend more time either injured himself or injuring others.

It wasn't on the boundary line, drd.

Clark owns this forward line, if you are in his space - you are going to get hit.

One thing I do agree this goes accross the team they don't know how to create space for each other, I have posted this a few times over the past 4 weeks we play like under 9 footballers everyone just runs to the footy, if we don't win the footy we have all our players flat footed around where the footy was. We have to learn only one player can win the footy others can assist through blokes and sheppards(which we don't do) but we need to maintain players away from the footy for when it comes out. All the good teams have a get out player usually 5m away on the defensive side of the contest, we never have this

Yes, I have noticed that under Neeld the players don't setup on the defensive side. I don't know what that is about - it's Footy 101 to me...

As for the selfless acts of footy, I have never been happy with this at the Dees. Blocks, sheppards, willingness for unrewarded running, etc. - we don't do it.

[Biffen 12,323]

My 2 cents worth

• In the third 1/4 when we turned it on, we backed our run and handballed to moving targets. Moloney found a lot of it during this period. Also, Tom McDonald was good in this period (the rest of his game was terrible). The key difference was the run to receive. It's been missing. Too often we handball to guys that are flat footed.
  
• We tackled and pressured better than we have for a long time.
  
• Magner has had two off weeks and may have been found out. Needs to have a good one against the 'Aints this week.
  
• Mitch Clark is a dominant player. He earns respect by being a bullocking type player. You cannot question his endevour. I would hate to see the effect of him receiving some decent delivery.
  
• I thought James Frawley lowered his colours. May have beaten his opponent but his general skills and disposal were sub-standard. All good to do the twist and turn in the middle of the ground, but if you get caught and turn it over, you are a liability. (side note: saw Chip at the supermarket in Victoria Street richmond at about 12pm. Doing some shopping. Thought it was odd that he was not at home preparing. I guess they want their day to be as normal as possible.)
  
• Morton was good. I have been a basher, but it was his best game in a long time. He needs to remain in the side.
  
• Davey showed flashes. Still HATES body contact and did not go in at teh contest a number of times. It hurts the side.
  
• Jamar's ruck work is SHITHOUSE at the moment. He jumps too early. Does not hit to advantage and has falling away in the last few weeks
  
• Howe is a gun, not just coz of his marking ability but general field play is good too. Glad we have him.
  
• Watts was good in parts but dropped a crucial mark at a crucial stage of the game. He too often takes two bites at the cherry. Needs to learn how to clunk them one grab. He did take a great mark (contested) on the members wing, punt rd end fifty).
  
• Joel Mac is a tard. Should not be seen in the red and blue again.
  
• Sellar is worth persisting with.
  
• Dunn likes picking fights and niggle but cant actually play. No use keeping hot air on the field any longer.
  
• I tip my hat to Matty Bate. He really had a dip last night. We all know he has limitations but had a red hot crack.
  
• Why oh why do our players seem to have no awareness? We get caught from behind far too much. Clearly not enough talk onfield.
  
• We need to use our picks wisely at the end of the year. We MUST look at mature players. 22-26. The gap is too great. No use loading up on more kids who may or may not take the next step.
  

Agree with all of this. Joel Mac is going to struggle.Davey nearly back .Morton showing something(for once). Matty Bate just proving everyone wrong ,Watts losing concentration ,Dunn gone ,Frawley down .Yep a fair and honest assessment of the game and the form of the players .Fumbling/missing targets is killing us .and there is no talk-shepherd etc for the carrier .

[Deemort 28]

In this instance, he just wasn't quick enough, but he rarely is.

Morton's handball wasn't perfect, but I can forgive a skill error.

I really think Moloney is on borrowed time and we should trade him as soon as we can.

He has a high value, but his agility is woeful, and the way we now need him to play... well, he's just not that type of player.

I keep saying it - he's a one-trick pony.

And he's not going to get better.

First game back and was in our best and generally always is, awful post IMO

[Pipefitter 2,014]

Magner hasn't been found out. Wasn't he doing a shut down role on Boyd? If it was him he really shut him out of the game. Just has to work out how to hurt them going the other way.

[Jaded No More 57,800]

FWIW, Jones was pretty good yesterday and has been pretty good all year. His effort cannot not be questioned and I don't remember him making many bad errors/fumbles. Well and truly worthy of the promotion to the leadership group.

Agreed.

He's been so consistent, and by far our best 'senior' player this season.

Tries his butt off, has adapted well to the game plan, and his disposal has improved out of sight. Clearly a sign of physical and mental maturity from a guy who is coming into his prime.

Well done to him.

[mauriesy 6,790]

Magner has had two off weeks and may have been found out. Needs to have a good one against the 'Aints this week.

Funny, Magner got 6 votes in The Age this morning. Maybe they confused him with Bate, but there you go.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,163]

Funny, Magner got 6 votes in The Age this morning. Maybe they confused him with Bate, but there you go.

Boyd was held by Magner to 19 possessions after having 38 round 1, 28 round 2 and 39 round 3. Would have liked him to have got more ball the other way but did a great job quelling his influence.

[Guest José Mourinho]

How many are we going to be able to forgive. And for how long do we need to keep forgiving them?

I understand what you're saying Jose, mistakes do happen, but the sheer volume of skill errors is what is costing us.

Not to mention the simplicity of some of the plays that are being botched, with both Morton and Moloney being guilty here.

And the cold hard reality is that at some some point they really do become unforgivable......

Skill errors occur for varying reasons, but they are a byproduct.

They will be eliminated with time as we learn to implement the gameplan better and to cope with the pressure better.

[jackaub 1,402]

I did.

I also completely unemotional now and I will be without passion until i see some real improvement

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Magner kept Boyd to about half his usual tally against us. It was a superb job and showed a real team focus that he was willing to sacrifice his game to that extent just to stop one of the prime movers from impacting the game. As important as he is to us with his clearance work, I'd take that from him every week. It could also clear the way for Couch to come into the side if Magner were to play as tagger.

[stuie 7,374]

In this instance, he just wasn't quick enough, but he rarely is.

Morton's handball wasn't perfect, but I can forgive a skill error.

I really think Moloney is on borrowed time and we should trade him as soon as we can.

He has a high value, but his agility is woeful, and the way we now need him to play... well, he's just not that type of player.

I keep saying it - he's a one-trick pony.

And he's not going to get better.

You rate Morton but you don't rate Moloney... And you wonder why people are increasingly finding you out...

[stuie 7,374]

Sorry stuie - you need to get real.

You seem to expect a guy who has coached 4 games to turn around a basket case.

You easily forget his first presser and how he got caned in the media for being honest.

Do you think he should come out every week and slaughter the team and further degrade their confidence?

He is doing as well as we could expect any coach to be doing.

Dont sit there and tell me there is another coach who would have done any better with this group after 4 rounds.

The players have poor skills, lack composure, are not fit, many lack experience and many lack talent and are showing we have all overated them.

No coach can fix those things all at once and immediately.

Yesterday we saw improvement in endeavour and that is one thing I would expect the coach to impact and that was a good sign.

Do I accept mediocrity? No

Am I unhappy, angry and upset with where we are? Yes

But my head is not stuck in clouds thinking we have some sort of God as head coach who will change the culture, people, processes at the club and turn it all into progress in a short time.

You know what they say about pig sh%t......you cant make strawberry jam from it...

"Hi there, I'm the point, have you missed me?........"

I was in no way bagging out Neeld's coaching or anything related to it for that matter, all I was saying is that I'm really sick of being told about the positives when we're getting smashed every week. We know it's carp, they know it's carp, what's the point? I MUCH preferred Neeld's Round 1 presser, and from what I saw, most reaction was positive towards it. Would you rather MFC reps come out after these losses and say "Well we we're down by 100 points, but we drew with them in the last quarter so that's something to hang our hats on" or say "We weren't happy with today at all, and we're going to work our a##es off this week to change as much as we can for the good"?!

For mine, it's much more degrading to confidence to focus on 1 little insignificant positive when everyone knows it's clutching at straws, than to be realistic and say "right, we're in the trenches but we're all here together and we;re gonna fight our way out".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now just one point that everyone seems to be missing. You say:

"The players have poor skills, lack composure, are not fit, many lack experience and many lack talent and are showing we have all overated them."

But wait, this is technically a better list than last year. Sure we lost Scully, but he did bugger all last season, but we added Magner and Clark who have arguably been our best two players over the journey so far. We were better LAST YEAR. Did we specifically train to become less fit and less skilled? I doubt it. So something is VERY wrong somewhere.

I'm not saying we should be good this year, but we have gone a long way backwards.

[stuie 7,374]

Skill errors occur for varying reasons, but they are a byproduct.

They will be eliminated with time as we learn to implement the gameplan better and to cope with the pressure better.

Hitting a target is hitting a target. Doesn't have anything to do with the gameplan. Very shortsighted view.

If the individual player does not have the skill or fitness to execute a disposal effectively it does NOT matter what the gameplan is.

Gameplans don't make players better kicks.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Hitting a target is hitting a target. Doesn't have anything to do with the gameplan. Very shortsighted view.

If the individual player does not have the skill or fitness to execute a disposal effectively it does NOT matter what the gameplan is.

Gameplans don't make players better kicks.

It does if your thinking about what your supposed to be doing for the coach while kicking the ball thus distracting yourself or second guessing while choosing a target which is what ive seen a number of times so far this year. I dont think some of the clangers have been skill errors, some have been hesitations and cant-decides.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Norm Smith's Curse

[Guest José Mourinho]

Hitting a target is hitting a target. Doesn't have anything to do with the gameplan. Very shortsighted view.

If the individual player does not have the skill or fitness to execute a disposal effectively it does NOT matter what the gameplan is.

Gameplans don't make players better kicks.

Haha the irony of your own shortsighted view!

I agree, it's got nothing to do with the gamplan.

It's about IMPLEMENTING the gameplan. It's about execution.

Execution of the gameplan, whatever it is, will lead to less pressure, more instinctive play and subsequently an increased ability to correctly execute skills.